DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown continued

If McCown was actually good (or even average), why hasn't one of the six previous teams tried to keep him around? We all know that even average QBs are valuable (see: Dalton, Andy; contract). Why did the Cardinals, Lions, Raiders, Panthers, and Bears replace him? They would know better than anyone that he is actually not horrible, right? Also, how many QBs have their best year at age 36? Of the QBs who have their best year at 36 how many had previously never been good? How many QBs have had four (or more) game stretches similar to McCown's and then were never good again (see: Anderson, Derek; 2007)?

Yes, McCown has played for horrible teams. But is there not a correlation? Was none of the team's performance McCown's fault? He was, after all, the QB of the teams that were terrible.

I understand the need for people to justify McCown's potentially good play because he is the QB of their (and my) team. I did it last year with Hoyer before the season, but at least he was somewhat of an unknown entity. This is different, we know what McCown is. He is a 36 year old QB who has never been good and has played for six teams since 2002 (seven if you include the Hartford Colonials of the UFL). If McCown was the QB of some other random team, we would all think that team was silly for thinking they could get anything valuable out of him. Because he is the QB of our team people are hopeful, it will only end in heartache.

If my back were against the wall I believe I'd have to agree with this. We can't go into year three with Manziel still here yet with no real answer at the QB position. In todays NFL that simply won't cut it.

Still, in the back of my mind, I worry that may be rushing him a bit.

Fun with Small Samples:

Joey Harrington (2002, weeks 4-7) - 64% completion, 732 yards, 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 97.5 QB rating.

Derek Anderson (2007, weeks 6-9) - 60%, 980 yards, 9 TDs, 1 INTs, 103 QB rating.

Brandon Weeden (2012, weeks 5-8) - 56%, 915 yards, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 84 QB rating.

Brady Quinn (2009, weeks 6-9) - 51%, 765 yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs, 86.8 QB rating.

JaMarcus Russell (2008, weeks 12-15) - 63%, 694 yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 90.6 QB rating.

David Carr (2004, weeks 2-5) - 62%, 1146 yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs, 104.4 QB rating.

(Note: I tried to do this with Colt McCoy, Charlie Frye, and Blaine "Yo Gabba" Gabbert but they didn't have any four games stretches of obvious success. In Frye's case I couldn't find more than two.)

If you want me to try this exercise with your favorite crappy QB, just put the name out there and I will test it out!

I'm going to be totally selfish here... Rush him... Put him in and lets see if he improves during the season.The more I think about it the less excited I'am to see McCown behind center.

Honestly how exciting is watching McCown going to be ? I'm beginning to come out of my anal cranial inversion.. in other terms getting my head out of my butt.

I'm tired of the QB situation we have had here...same old story every year.. I need to see the ending of this pathetic horror story end with a promising chance there will be some positive light ahead.


If I was in my 20's,30's or even 40's I would be willing to play the patience card...Every season that goes by I wonder if I'll be alive for the next one...

And at the beginning of that next season... I'm already wanting it to end. because once again ..I buy into the "we need a washed up never has been to teach our future QB who will take this team and lead it into a play-off contender " on the team.

"And we're not going to surround him with any top notch players, but hey fans, be patient .. Play like a Brown and see our guys win "

Ughhh.. I'm getting an ulcer !

Your better off starting JOHNNY MANZIEL rather than McCown.
This isn't a playoff team and won't be playoff team when put your faith
In a journey QB.
Starting McCown accomplishes nothing.
Play Johnny and see what you have going into 2016 at the QB Spot.
Leave it to Ray Farmer to put his faith a QB that could not start for any other NFL FRANCHISE!!
McCown is what he is. A all star 7 on 7 QB.

He's not even that.

McCown's stats for the Hartford Colonials of the UFL:

56% completion, 1463 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs.

I don't think this was/is a Farmer call I think its totally a Flip call.

Mark my words Flip will be unemployed if McCown is who he has always been.

McCown is the same QB we thought he was and will always be.

These would be interesting:

Paul McDonald
Scott Mitchell
Matt Cassell
Matt Flynn

Paul McDonald (1984, weeks 11-14) - 56%, 767 yards, 7 TDs, 3 INTs, 89.6 QB rating.

Scott Mitchell, pretty much his entire 1995 season is an aberration. (1995, weeks 12-15) - 61%, 1246 yards, 11 TDs, 3 INTs, 105.4 QB rating.

Matt Cassel (2010, weeks 9-12) - 62%, 1091 yards, 11 TD, 0 INT, 112.5 QB rating.

Matt Flynn (2013, weeks 4-7) - 62%, 928 yards, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 86.3 rating. (Flynn's entire career was built on the back of one game where he was 70%, 480 yards, 6 TDs, 1 INT, and a QB rating of 136.4.)

I think we can have the best of both worlds hopefully. I would start the season with McCown for the reasons you mentioned. JFM has made a ton of improvement in a couple of months but I prefer giving him a couple of more before going to him. Start McCown and then bench him when the record stinks (and it will I'm afraid) or of course if he's injured.

This year is about finding out what we have at QB and solving it this off season either by JFM or getting a real one no matter the cost. Of course last year should have been about that, but JFM being incompetent and the FO turmoil killed that.....I digress

I don't think we have anything to gain by letting McCown start the season..Let JFF go, see what he has, see if he makes any kind of progression. If he truly is the franchise QB, he's not going to learn anything from McCown other than bad habits. True franchise QB's just get out there and do it, and learn as they go and get better. If they think JFF can be, then lets find out...

I hear what you are saying. I like Manziel. I think he is close. I believe McCown will give coaches an easy decision to switch.

My biggest concern is having a rookie OC working with an inexperience QB. pblack18707 maybe comfortable with it, but I think 13 years of experience trumps 1 year.

The coaches see them both .. every day.. why do "We" meaning the fans.. have to see anything? You are talking about a QB who in the opinion of the people who see them both everyday, say Manziel is not ready. I want to see Manziel play, probably as badly as you do, and play well, but no more Cincy games. Wait 'til he is ready to go.

its easy to second question a team that deserves to be questioned. we sqrewed up soo many drafts and went the wrong direction soo any times....its easy to see that we are allowed to question any move.

its funny to see people say...argue that we are on the right path....the same people that said we were on the right path a decade ago. if we listen to the same people that told us garbage a decade a year ago and agree then mabe its on the fans for believing

It always comes down to that, doesn't it?

So what your saying is the QB gets too much credit for winning and all the blame for losing! Do I have that right?

If the coaches think Manziel isn't ready, then I understand that. If the coaches think that McCown is good, then they are wrong.

well either the OC we hired is competent or not. but the truth is mccown would be more help to flip helping train johnny and giving advise next to flip on the sidelines than getting him fired from being on the field.

Agreed. That was hilarious. I forgot to reply to DC;s post.

Josh McCown’s final preseason series fills Browns offense with confidence

Link

Veteran QB bounces back from hard hits to deliver TD

Josh McCown and the Browns offense made too much progress from the previous week to have their final series come to a halt on Kwon Alexander’s crushing, third-down sack. After its lengthy scoring drive to open the game, the Browns offense went into the Raymond James Stadium locker room sputtering, but its confidence wasn’t shaken.

That confidence only grew when the unit learned it would have one last shot at redemption to start the second half.

“We talked about it and said, ‘hey, let’s go put another one together because we felt like we could,’” McCown said. “It was just a great way to finish the preseason for us as starters being able to punch it in.”

The Browns first-team offense bounced back with the same formula that allowed it to march down the field earlier in the night and exited in style. McCown’s 7-yard touchdown pass to Gary Barnidge was the finishing touch on the 11-play, 78-yard drive that saw Cleveland gain 5 or more yards on all but three of the plays.

Considering how crisp it was – along with the fact it didn’t include any more hard hits on McCown – the drive was arguably the first-team offense’s most impressive of the preseason. It was also the last, as Browns coach Mike Pettine confirmed McCown, who went 6-for-6 for 52 yards on the possession, would not play Thursday against the Bears in Cleveland’s preseason finale.

“For us to go out there and not get accomplished what we wanted to against Buffalo and respond the way we did, I’m proud of that,” McCown said. “You look at the course of the three games, it’s preseason football. Some ups and downs, some things you’d like to see happen and we put drives together, we finished drives and touchdowns, we had some good runs, things like that. I think for the most part the preseason has served us well as far as getting the work done we needed.”

McCown and the first-team offense logged seven possessions Saturday and 11 total in the preseason. The results: Three touchdowns (all through the air), two field goals, two interceptions and four punts.

What McCown, who finished the preseason 29-of-38 for 207 yards and the three touchdown passes, took most pride from was getting all of his teammates involved in the passing game. Brian Hartline was the fifth different receiver to catch a pass on the opening possession when he hauled in a 3-yard touchdown. The same went for Barnidge, whose 7-yard touchdown catch followed receptions from the likes of Jim Dray, Terrance West, Taylor Gabriel and Travis Benjamin.

“There’s no substitute,” Pettine said. “You can always look at it and say this will be different and this will be different but to actually go out and execute it and have success, that’s what the NFL is; It was a win-win. We got results, but at the same time there’s some great tape to teach off of that we know we’re going to have to get cleaned up.”

McCown said he tried to get veteran wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, who made his preseason debut Saturday, involved early in the offense, but the two couldn’t connect on any of the three targeted in his direction. The next two weeks of practice will be used to further establish the chemistry between the two veterans.

The same goes for a running game that sputtered early in training camp but got better with each game. Terrance West’s 17-yard run on the offense’s final series Saturday was the longest by a Browns’ first-team back, really got the group moving downhill and put the Buccaneers on their heels.

There was no backpedaling from the offense Saturday as it looks ahead to Sept. 13, when it faces a tough New York Jets defense in the regular season opener.

“You want a positive ending and I think we were able to do that,” offensive lineman John Greco said. “We’re feeling good about it but there’s a lot of stuff we need to figure out and we’ll do that.”

Here a story and video where Pettine discusses starting McCown.

A couple of things I learned...first, referring to McCown, according to the article, Pettine used the word "should" start,if McCown clears the concussion protocol.

Also, according to the NFL concussion protocol, Friday would be "soonest" a player can return to practice after suffering a concussion.

We should know tomorrow morning...

link
Cleveland Browns head coach Mike Pettine said that QB Josh McCown should start on Sunday if cleared on Friday.

HAYDEN GROVE
1:05 PM


Browns head coach Mike Pettine said that if Josh McCown is cleared as part of the NFL concussion protocol on Friday morning, he should start on Sunday against the Tennessee Titans.

CLEVELAND-- Though Johnny Manziel has been the subject of much media attention this week, it doesn't appear as though he's guy who will start behind center for the Browns on Sunday.
The man set to start at quarterback, according to Browns head coach Mike Pettine, will be Josh McCown, if he clears the league's NFL concussion protocol and practices on Friday.
"We've discussed it. I think it still will be our decision based on how practice goes," Pettine said. "I don't see an issue, if he's cleared and he practices fully tomorrow, I don't see, barring anything unforeseen, a reason why we wouldn't play him."
McCown has been at practice throughout the week and has been in meetings with the team, giving Pettine no pause in starting the quarterback on Sunday.
"When you over-install for the opener and you're playing similar defensive styles week one to week two, so there were a lot of plays that wer eup for this plan that he's already gotten a lot of reps on," Pettine said of the veteran. "If this was a completely different plan and it wasn't this close coming out of Training Camp, I think the situation would be different. But he's gotten quality reps on a lot of the elements of the plan that we have up."
In addition, Pettine was encouraged by the way that McCown handled the one drive that he was on the field for.
"I think it's difficult for the offenses to come right out and piece together an opening drive," Pettine said. "To go out there and 18 or 19 plays and convert the third downs the way that we did... Sure, it was encouraging, but it's not how you start, it's how you finish."
In addition to his firm thoughts regarding McCown's starting status if he were cleared, Pettine too seemed to understand the NFL's concussion protocol and how it would work in regards to his quarterback.
"He has to be cleared to practice, so he would already be cleared (for Sunday's game)," Pettine said. "There's nobody that would evaluate him after practice Friday. The final step of the protocol would potentially be (Friday) morning."
When Pettine was asked if McCown would be cleared, however, he was much less sure.
"There's no PHD after my name," Pettine said. "To me, these situations, you learn over time, are impossible to predict."

Fans won't like it, but Pettine plays for his job and McCown gives him the best chance to win and I agree. Two days of reps won't make up for all the TC reps he has on Manziel.

This sounds good, I'll drop some money on the Browns. Btw, did you know that the "threat" of Manziel starting made Vegas move their line 3 to 3.5 points? That's significant, so Rish, Mourg and all, this isn't some grumpy Manziel hate from fans, it's real. The entire outside world thiks he stinks, his HC included.

Yes.....because the line never moves in Vegas for any non-QB reasons...LOL

Dude, we get that you don't like JM but a half a point of movement hardly points to a proclamation that Johnny is a turd in a punchbowl.

not to sure about that. and if it is true its just sad......

Umm, it's not half a point, it's FULL 3 TO 3.5 points at most places. Going from a 2.5p fav to a 1p underdog where I bet at.

Just the risk of Manziel scrambling into another fumble or INT cost us half a TD in the eyes of Vegas.

is not that i think johnny is great. just that i know what mccown is.......

Don't think that would have anything to do with how TEN beat TB last week? And how Bad we looked?

how many points he put up? how many turnovers did he have? that is the cold hard fact.

He read it the same way I did, that they moved it from 3 points to 3.5 points... now that I go back and read what you wrote in a different context, I see what you meant, the spread moved 3/3.5 points...

So now that news is breaking that McCown is likely to start, assuming he clears for practice tomorrow, we should see most, if not all, of that go away right?

yea ok. lmao. those third downs put alot of points up. pfft. how did you like that third down with the crow wide open for what would have been a good gain and mccown ran it instead. brilliant... a thing of beauty. even if he got the td he would have done something else stupid to lose the game.

Carnak, is that you?

( Johnny Carson reference. )

Vegas is all about the money and is looking to split it for both outcomes. The line moved that much because Joe Public thinks it's the best bet of the day and the news of Manziel most probably playing (as it was consensus until today) enhanced that. Once the smart money comes in (waiting for max value, which will be mostly on Cleveland, because it's the perfect spot), I expect to move back a little, but not by as much, simply because the other side of the money is already in. I hope that makes sense, but that's how lines work.

Normally, you only see such drastic line movements if a top QB is rumored to miss the game or not be 100%, so since we're only talking the gap between McCown and Manziel starting, sadly that kind of line movement is very telling. Since McCown is far from a top QB himself, it simply means that nobody trusts Johnny, as all he's done since entering the league is crash and burn.

The Browns are 0-5 in regular season games Manziel had to play QB in. 1-5 in preseason. I mean...