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Then my question would be ; How smart was Haslam for bringing in a Rookie GM and a rookie Coaching staff ? If he is willing to be patient and they are the right people, he could be brilliant.. if he fires them at the end of this year for not getting it right immediately, then he is not so brilliant.
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Last edited by Vambo; 09/18/15 10:24 AM.
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Then my question would be ; How smart was Haslam for bringing in a Rookie GM and a rookie Coaching staff ? Maybe he couldn't get anyone else? I have to believe over the years that we have tried to get higher profile coaches - the team is such a mess most of them probably don't want to touch it. On Ray Farmer, he was a rising superstar - remember Miami tried to hire him away - so you can't really blame that hire.
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Then my question would be ; How smart was Haslam for bringing in a Rookie GM and a rookie Coaching staff ? As smart as any other owner listening to his advisers. He's an owner, a new one at that, that owns a team that has performed poorly for nearly 2 decades, the list of available and WILLING candidates is limited, as well as our history for constant flux causes disinterest in the best candidates. Is Haslam the best NFL owner? Heck no, but I think people put too much blame on the guy for just trying to do his best with what he has been dealt. Does anyone believe he does not truly want to build a winner?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Then my question would be ; How smart was Haslam for bringing in a Rookie GM and a rookie Coaching staff ? How did Mike Homlgren do as the experienced leader? How about Banner as the experienced head of the team? When we fired Chud and hired Pettine, it was reported that we tried, almost desperately, to hire a guy with experience. Then came the reports that Banner wanted the coordinators to report directly to him, and not to the head coach, and that finished any chance of hiring a top guy.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 09/18/15 10:59 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well, JFF is starting this week.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Well, JFF is starting this week. OVOManziel RT @Browns: BREAKING: Johnny Manziel to start vs Tennessee. pic.twitter.com/yPoArmd98M
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And now we know.
Half the battle!
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Well, JFF is starting this week. And Vegas moved the line another point with the announcement. By game time the Browns might end up +3 (+1.5/2 now), after starting as a 2.5p fav. Browns should win this regardless, but I won't put money on it, because banking on Manziel is too much of a lottery. Almost a TD swing from McCown to Manziel is all you need to know
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McCown not cleared; Manziel will start Sunday The Browns announced Friday morning that Johnny Manziel will be their starting quarterback for Sunday’s game vs. the Titans. Browns coach Mike Pettine said Thursday that veteran starter Josh McCown would probably start if he was cleared by doctors Friday, but before the Browns took the practice field Friday the team released a statement saying that McCown remains in concussion protocol and that Manziel will start. McCown suffered a concussion while trying to dive into the end zone on the team’s first drive of the season opener. Pettine said Thursday he was “hopeful” McCown would be cleared and that “I don’t see, barring anything unforeseen, a reason why we wouldn’t play him.” A tweet by Mike Garafolo of FOX Sports Friday indicated that the Browns were surprised that McCown was not cleared. Manziel missed the final two preseason games with the elbow issues but was pressed into duty last week when McCown was forced out. He threw his first career touchdown pass on his first drive but turned the ball over three times in the second half of what became a 31-10 loss to the Jets. Austin Davis, signed last week as the team’s third quarterback, will be the backup Sunday after not being active for last week’s game. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/18/mccown-not-cleared-manziel-will-start-sunday/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Well, JFF is starting this week. And Vegas moved the line another point with the announcement. By game time the Browns might end up +3 (+1.5/2 now), after starting as a 2.5p fav. Browns should win this regardless, but I won't put money on it, because banking on Manziel is too much of a lottery. Almost a TD swing from McCown to Manziel is all you need to know Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him? I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? If he plays and bombs, then we move on. If he plays and does well, maybe we have something to build on. But I would think moving along with the experiment is good thing either way.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think the defense will own this game and win it on their own vs Mariota. Manziel just needs to play game manager, connect on some throws, scramble a bit and not turn the ball over more than once. If he does that, Browns win.
Manziel struggles most when he has to throw it and teams know it. He will never be a come from behind kind of QB in the NFL, this isn't college anymore. If the defense plays as I expect them to, he will never be behind by much, if at all. In other words, Manziel doesn't need to play hero and win this, he just needs to not lose it. That would be a decent step in the right direction considering his NFL track record of turnovers.
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right?
If he plays and bombs, then we move on.
If he plays and does well, maybe we have something to build on. As long as people keep their expectations in check, you could be right. It does all come down to how you define "bomb" and "does well"... Like last week, my personal opinion was he did a number of things pretty well, he just had some mistakes.. then I come on here and some people are riding him hard...
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conspiracy theorists:
NFL told the independent doctors not to clear McCown to get better rating points on Sunday.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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conspiracy theorists:
NFL told the independent doctors not to clear McCown to get better rating points on Sunday.
Are people actually saying that?
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conspiracy theorists:
NFL told the independent doctors not to clear McCown to get better rating points on Sunday.
Are people actually saying that? I think he's just guessing that some people will here soon
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I'm certainly not trying to pile on here. But it would be nice if you explained why you believe and points to back up your feelings.
I understand your negative expectations and I'm not one who will fault you for that. However, I would like to see your rationale and reasoning for those feelings contained in your posts.
Just a suggestion. Not trying to be argumentative. That's fair PitDAWG. I really don't have the passion or desire to debate the same things over and over again every year. It is all regurgitation. The state of the team is as obvious as can be. 1. Bad Owner 2. Bad GM 3. Unproven Head Coach These are all obvious when you see the final product. One game doesn't mean a season, but if we lose to the Titans at home, my ongoing cynical approach will remain. Not denying your assessment, just giving my opinion on the list. 1) Curious, because many give Haslam a bad grade, but other than any forced agendas or decisions, the owner has little to do with daily field operations. And we hardly ever see or hear of him anymore. So, I don't see what a bad owner has to do with anything, like I said, unless they are pushing decisions that pertain directly to the field operations. 2) Bad GM, it could be argued that he is bad, but I'm still willing to say he's inexperienced, and can hope he improves. Many of the things people seem to complain about, outside of his early draft picks, are not under his complete control. FA's take 2 sides to agree, trades take 2 sides. I have said it in another thread, that I wonder more about the scouting staff as far as the poor drafting than anything. The GM relies on the scouts to give him the information that he uses to make his draft board. Is he not getting very good info, or is he just going with his own information? 3) I agree, unproven. But I see things I like, and hope he improves. Belicheck was once unproven too, as was any head coach. Coaches are much like players, they need practice and time to refine their skills. The really good HCs seldom move from team to team, they stay long term and retire. So you either get a rehash that did poorly and got fired, or you start fresh. Neither will bring a guarantee of success. As we have seen over the last 15 years. I think Haslam is guilty of not surrounding himself with the right people when he decided to hire who he did. I'm not ready to get rid of Pettine. Farmer has shown himself to be completely in over his head when it comes to selecting "talent" for this team. He needs to go. Now. Regardless of how this season goes, I will give the Browns one more year to get it right under Pettine. This, of course, means that they solve their QB dilemma via the draft (which means they need a competent GM). If Farmer remains for the 2016 draft, I will bail. If Pettine is fired, I will bail. All this talk about the expansion era Browns is tiresome. Seriously, how long do expansion eras last?
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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Well, let's see what Austin Davis can bring. Manziel is going bomb again and will come up with a hamstring and then we can see what the third string guy can do. 
Last in, first out, the sign of a true champion!![[Linked Image from i301.photobucket.com]](http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn59/Stetson1376/c8f5fed9-fc01-4b87-bda3-b2b53f0b16cb_zpse708e05e.jpg)
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conspiracy theorists:
NFL told the independent doctors not to clear McCown to get better rating points on Sunday.
Well it must have worked because I finally get to watch the Browns on TV - local CBS broadcast - here in Portland, OR! 
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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conspiracy theorists:
NFL told the independent doctors not to clear McCown to get better rating points on Sunday.
Well it must have worked because I finally get to watch the Browns on TV - local CBS broadcast - here in Portland, OR! You can thank Mariota for that.
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? I think this is false, in fact I think this is about the worst possible scenario for him. He seems, by all accounts, to be focused and on the right track (personally and professionally) but he's only been on that track for 6 months, my guess is that he had accepted being the back-up and was willing to do what everybody said a QB with his skill set needs to do when they come into the NFL, which is watch, practice, and learn.... Now, still as a work in progress, he being thrown back out there with a team that in week 1 didn't do anything particularly well to help him.
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? I think this is false, in fact I think this is about the worst possible scenario for him. He seems, by all accounts, to be focused and on the right track (personally and professionally) but he's only been on that track for 6 months, my guess is that he had accepted being the back-up and was willing to do what everybody said a QB with his skill set needs to do when they come into the NFL, which is watch, practice, and learn.... Now, still as a work in progress, he being thrown back out there with a team that in week 1 didn't do anything particularly well to help him. the guy is the backup. the starter is hurt. its his job!!!!!
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? I think this is false, in fact I think this is about the worst possible scenario for him. He seems, by all accounts, to be focused and on the right track (personally and professionally) but he's only been on that track for 6 months, my guess is that he had accepted being the back-up and was willing to do what everybody said a QB with his skill set needs to do when they come into the NFL, which is watch, practice, and learn.... Now, still as a work in progress, he being thrown back out there with a team that in week 1 didn't do anything particularly well to help him. the guy is the backup. the starter is hurt. its his job!!!!! It wasn't about whether it is his job or not, it was about whether the "get on with the experiment" idea was beneficial or detrimental to JM at this particular time.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? I think this is false, in fact I think this is about the worst possible scenario for him. He seems, by all accounts, to be focused and on the right track (personally and professionally) but he's only been on that track for 6 months, my guess is that he had accepted being the back-up and was willing to do what everybody said a QB with his skill set needs to do when they come into the NFL, which is watch, practice, and learn.... Now, still as a work in progress, he being thrown back out there with a team that in week 1 didn't do anything particularly well to help him. the guy is the backup. the starter is hurt. its his job!!!!! I understand that and I'm sure he will work hard all week and go out on Sunday and give it his all.... But as far as whether this is a good indicator as to whether the "experiment" is working or not or whether its worth pursuing or not, I think this is a very bad way (For Manziel and for the Browns) for it to have happened.
yebat' Putin
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Isn't this the best possible scenario for guys that want to give him a chance and those that have already given up on him?
I mean we might as well get the experiment over with, right? I think this is false, in fact I think this is about the worst possible scenario for him. He seems, by all accounts, to be focused and on the right track (personally and professionally) but he's only been on that track for 6 months, my guess is that he had accepted being the back-up and was willing to do what everybody said a QB with his skill set needs to do when they come into the NFL, which is watch, practice, and learn.... Now, still as a work in progress, he being thrown back out there with a team that in week 1 didn't do anything particularly well to help him. the guy is the backup. the starter is hurt. its his job!!!!! I understand that and I'm sure he will work hard all week and go out on Sunday and give it his all.... But as far as whether this is a good indicator as to whether the "experiment" is working or not or whether its worth pursuing or not, I think this is a very bad way (For Manziel and for the Browns) for it to have happened. the guy is a veteran QB. he is not being thrown into anything.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Biggest game of his career and facing a Dick Lebeau defense. Manziel vs. Mariotta was a big debate we had a few months back, nice to see them squaring off.
Would like to see him come out this week showing command of the offense and play smart football. Excited to see how he does.
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the guy is a veteran QB. he is not being thrown into anything. You can think his 59 career NFL passing attempts make him a veteran... sane people will know the difference.
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I guess the question then becomes, if he doesn't play once McCown is cleared this season, do some fans lay claim that he's still a rookie and not a veteran entering his third season?
People can claim he's still a rookie, but I'm sure of you looked at the books of the Cleveland Browns last year, he got paid like everyone else on the roster.
I simply can't give him an exemption because he chose not to work at his craft.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I guess the question then becomes, if he doesn't play once McCown is cleared this season, do some fans lay claim that he's still a rookie and not a veteran entering his third season? i guess it just depends on your opinion. when aaron rodgers came in and finally played for green bay, what did you consider him? i'd probably say "a rookie whos been on the bench for a couple years learning..."
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I guess the question then becomes, if he doesn't play once McCown is cleared this season, do some fans lay claim that he's still a rookie and not a veteran entering his third season? i guess it just depends on your opinion. when aaron rodgers came in and finally played for green bay, what did you consider him? i'd probably say "a rookie whos been on the bench for a couple years learning..." Rookies are, by definition, players who are in the league for their first year. Rodgers had been sitting in NFL meeting rooms learning things he would have never learned if he had not been in the NFL. His playing experience was similar to that of a rookie, but he was not a rookie by any means.
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The Rodgers comparison is really interested. We all know he sat and is now likely the best quarterback in the league, but there's no way to say if he wouldn't have been just as great if he'd been thrown right in. Each player is different and more importantly each team is different.
For example, Manziel is a waste of a roster spot on an otherwise improving team if he had sat for 3 years we'd have people defending him and saying that year 4 is "really his rookie" year...
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His height and engrained college offense are what scares me most. Not sure if he can change the latter because he sure as heck can't change the former. Aside form that, he comes across as an intelligent kid. Hopefully that aids in the transition.
Good luck, Johnny.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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None of that worries me. What I want to see is that you are the guy. So far I haven't seen this.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Rookies are, by definition, players who are in the league for their first year. Rodgers had been sitting in NFL meeting rooms learning things he would have never learned if he had not been in the NFL. His playing experience was similar to that of a rookie, but he was not a rookie by any means.
Same with JF. Not a rookie in terms of time in the NFL, but similar to a rookie in playing experience.
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“I definitely feel I’m in a lot better place now,” Manziel said. “So I guess if I thought I was prepared [to start against the Bengals last season], I think I’m even more prepared now, obviously, with the experience and those two starts and then through the offseason and last week and just where I’m at today. So I definitely feel a lot better.” http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...rehand-1.625323
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Your a Brown Johnny and I am behind you 100%.Best of luck to you, God bless and keep safe. 
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I don't think Haslam had alot of options really, the only thing we can go on at this point is that the team improved last year from the previous. The opener this season was obviously a disappointment, we'll see how the team and staff respond tomorrow. If we get killed again tomorrow I think it doesn't look well for the season. I'll also be watching how the Colt's do against the Jets tomorrow I think that will be telling as to our performance against the them. They may actually be pretty good this season.
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I don't even care if the Browns win tomorrow, just as long as they win on Sunday.
Sorry dawg, couldn't resist. haha
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Bahahaha...too many beers tonight! 
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Another Manziel Thread
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