JMO, but I feel it's good to congregate with people that have similar, but at the same time different opinions.
For me, my church provides that. Staying at home Sundays doesn't lend itself to congregating and getting/giving support.
Do I HAVE to have that? Possibly not. Do I like it? Yes. Does it help me? Yes.
Weird, we cut so many Saturday night outings short because of church Sunday morning, yet at the same time, so many people treat Sunday as a "no work, gonna sleep in" day. Like it's another Saturday. (and for the record, I work most saturdays.)
You know the saying: Show me your friends, I'll show you your future.
JMO, but I feel it's good to congregate with people that have similar, but at the same time different opinions.
For me, my church provides that. Staying at home Sundays doesn't lend itself to congregating and getting/giving support.
Do I HAVE to have that? Possibly not. Do I like it? Yes. Does it help me? Yes.
Weird, we cut so many Saturday night outings short because of church Sunday morning, yet at the same time, so many people treat Sunday as a "no work, gonna sleep in" day. Like it's another Saturday. (and for the record, I work most saturdays.)
You know the saying: Show me your friends, I'll show you your future.
I am much more fulfilled in my faith since I came back to the church. I have a group of people who care about my well-being, and who pray for me, just as I do for them. I had to look for the right church for me, and I found it. (even though it did not look like what I thought I wanted in a church when I first walked in the doors)
I read my Bible much more regularly since I came back to church. I have someone to ask questions of, and bounce ideas off of in my pastor. I also have opportunities to help people in need through the various outreach ministries of my church. It is wonderful to be able to say "I know these people who are in a horrible situation, can we help?", and hear an immediate "Yes!".
My church is not a large church, but we carefully spend every dollar we take in (Beyond paying our bills) on helping those around us. We do things together that I cannot do alone, like sending boxes of supplies to soldiers serving overseas, and assisting in disaster relief.
Can I do some of these things through other organizations? Perhaps. However, there is a wonderful feeling that comes from seeing this small church of mine give so much of itself to those in need. They inspire me, and give me hope that the human race can have good in it, when they accept and follow the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Internationally, Christians are being martyred in record numbers, especially in the Muslim world.(although North Korea certainly ranks up there too)
Since we're talking about the US Constitution let's stick to the US.
In the US, Christians are definitely oppressed, but in different, more subtle ways. Christians are told that going to worship is fine, but to "leave all that stuff at church".
Who has told you that?
Are you sure it wasn't, "Don't set up symbols on public land"?
We are told that we have the freedom of religion, when it is actually freedom of religious expression. We have atheists suing to remove Christian symbols, by carefully targeting institutions that they know do not have enough money to defend themselves.
Which atheists, which institutions?
And again do you mean they don't want religious symbolism on public land? That's not oppression that's getting upset for not getting your way.
Christmas and Easter face persecution, in that some try to completely remove the religious significance, and even any mention whatsoever of a religious connection, from these holidays.
I have to call a major BS on that.
Which "some" and who isn't allowed to mention any religious connection? I say MERRY CHRIST MAS! to whoever I want and I have never ever even had it hinted to me that I don't have right to say it.
Christians are told to leave their religious beliefs at the door, because they have no right to have their local beliefs as part of public discourse and law.
Are we not having public discourse and are we not talking about religion?
while others who do not have a religious view are free to apply their morality as they see fit.
Within the limits of the law the same as Christians.
Christians who have expressed a Christian viewpoint have been called haters, and have lost jobs as a result.
I am 100% positive when Christians speak hate they are called haters. My solution would be to keep your beliefs out of other people's rights.
You cannot honestly tell me, with a straight face, that you have not seen these things for yourself.
Not smiling.
Anyway, I hope that starts to answer your question. I hope that Swish will answer mine when he sees this thread again.
Still waiting on facts.
Y, I know this is a very important issue for you, but you need to produce something that gives a date and a place saying this Christian was denied his rights, not was upset about peoples' negative reactions to intrusive behaviors, but actual denial you'll then need to compare that to the number of facts present that show real actual oppression and if the facts match you can claim oppression.
Otherwise this all sounds like your confusing oppression of Christianity with distaste for the behaviors of some Christians.
Like I said .... you, not being a Christian, do not see these things ....... much like a man may not see discrimination against a woman.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Or discrimination against blacks. But you tell us to get over it all the time, remember?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Like I said .... you, not being a Christian, do not see these things ....... much like a man may not see discrimination against a woman.
Discriminations can be explained. You've yet to explain them. "People think religious viewpoints shouldn't have a place in law" isn't discrimination, nor is it oppression. It's simply not living in a theocracy. And we dont live in a theocracy. We live in a democratic republic. In a democracy or Republic "because..." without logic following the ellipses doesn't work. We've got a guy on this board whose Christian faith informs him that our government should ban oral sex. He wants it to be a crime for a wife to put her mouth on her husband's penis (or vice versa). The Bible is illogical, and its subject to any number of interpretations. Because of this, it has no place in the arena of law, or what a state/federal government can ban. That's not oppression. It's a separation of church and state. If you say "This should be banned because my religion says so", you should have a follow up point, because the quoted isn't enough to be taken seriously.
Like I said .... you, not being a Christian, do not see these things ....... much like a man may not see discrimination against a woman.
Your still defining a reaction toward bad behavior as oppression.
If you could provide facts about a Christian's rights being violated just because of their religion then we could start counting the occasions to see if they qualify as an over-all oppression.
There have no facts to support what I consider a misconception. Facts would change my thinking.
Dates and places.
It's troubling that you dismiss me and actually believe that because I'm not a Christian I don't "see these things". This has nothing to do with the fact that the first 30 some years of my life I considered myself a Catholic who believed in God. Never once "reborn". Total belief from the beginning.
I suppose you'd believe that I wouldn't be able to see black oppression because I'm white or a person who due to the fact that he's a male doesn't have the ability to recognize discrimination against women.
Maybe because you are a Christian you don't see that taking action against someone gaining a right that would no effect on your life is a truly hateful action. Not in the least Christian. That's what all my Christian friends and family tell me anyway.
JMO, but I feel it's good to congregate with people that have similar, but at the same time different opinions.
For me, my church provides that. Staying at home Sundays doesn't lend itself to congregating and getting/giving support.
Do I HAVE to have that? Possibly not. Do I like it? Yes. Does it help me? Yes.
Weird, we cut so many Saturday night outings short because of church Sunday morning, yet at the same time, so many people treat Sunday as a "no work, gonna sleep in" day. Like it's another Saturday. (and for the record, I work most saturdays.)
You know the saying: Show me your friends, I'll show you your future.
Many churches can be summed up by this Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.
While many are not. Each Church is different.
Quote:
JMO, but I feel it's good to congregate with people that have similar, but at the same time different opinions.
I do that every day with friends, family, and even strangers.
Quote:
For me, my church provides that. Staying at home Sundays doesn't lend itself to congregating and getting/giving support.
If that works for you then thats what I would do if I was you bro I congregate, give, and get support all the time not just on Sunday morning.
Quote:
Do I HAVE to have that? Possibly not. Do I like it? Yes. Does it help me? Yes.
Then I am very happy for you that you have it
Quote:
You know the saying: Show me your friends, I'll show you your future.
Well then my future is very, very bright, because I have wonderful loving friends just like you friend
On the closed thread, you said the following, that I just had to respond to before I get out of the house.
Quote:
As I said in the other thread, it's great that you get express your religious beliefs on this public forum.
I admire your conviction, but the trouble is when you justify interfering with other people's rights because of your faith.
One result of this is the disservice toward your faith you create. Most people don't believe these actions are Christian at all.
Especially if you do it by using the same bible they've all read. The last I heard the bible is still the #1 best selling book.
While the Bible is the best selling book of all time, unfortunately, it is one of the least read books today. I bet that if you asked 1000 random people when the last time they read their Bible, on their own, was, most would answer "6 months or more ago".
Having the book on one's bookshelf (or stuck somewhere in a box in a closet) does one no good whatsoever. I owned 3 or 4 copies of the Bible, that had not been cracked open in over a decade. I guess that made me a great Christian in some peoples' eyes, at that time.
I have long made this comparison. If you were in the passenger seat, with your friend driving, and you were entering a school zone, with lots of kids walking in and around the road, and police monitoring the area for speed ,,,, with fines for speeding doubled or even tripled ...... would you warn your friend who was driving that he should, maybe, slow down for exactly those reasons ...... or would you figure that it was none of your business, and that your friend is free to do as he wishes?
This is the problem faced by many Christians today .... we seen friends and loved ones violating the law ..... and we truly, completely, and totally believe that this will lead them to eternal damnation. Are we a better friend if we keep our mouths shut and pretend that things are just fine, and that there are no eternal consequences for sin .... thereby condemning our friend to eternal damnation ....... or are we a better friend for shouting t our friend "Stop! What your doing is going to have horrific consequences, and I do not want you to suffer the torments of the damned!"? Which person is a better friend? I give the warning. Each person is free to accept it, or reject it. The world sets their rules, and frequently overrules God's Law ..... but that legal status is only valid in this life. I fear that a lot of people will have a huge surprise when they find themselves standing before Almighty God, and that they will mourn having rejected those who tried, desperately, to save them.
I ask you to think about this. If I am right, then you are helping deny people eternal live, eternal joy, and an opportunity to be a Son or Daughter of God for all eternity. You are encouraging them to do things that lead to judgment, punishment, and to eternal death.
I would not want to do that to anyone, and I will not do that to anyone. I fervently and completely believe in the Bible as The Word of God, and while I also believe that many have used the Bible to their own ends, or have misinterpreted it, (intentionally or not) or applied it unevenly or unfairly .... the fact remains that this is The Word of God.
I would suggest reading the Book before just dismissing it out of hand. I am absolutely convinced that many who dismiss the Bible out of hand have never really sat down and read it. They (and you, I believe) have no real idea what the Book is about. I sure didn't. I had never sat down and read from "In the beginning.." to "Amen" ..... and I bet that you, and most people in this country, have not either. The Bible is not the story of some Ogre named God ...... it is a love story; God's love for his creation, and the depths to which He would go in order to save us. I suggest that you read it sometime. It might just change your life.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Everyone has a deeply and personal love story in their lives. For some, it's an ex. For others, it's an imaginary overlord. In either case, no friend wants to hear about it every five seconds. If it was an ex, I'd say save it for therapy or support group. In the case of the imaginary overlord, I'd say save it for Sunday. I understand that it's personal and immediate to you. But not everyone feels that way. Find others who feel that way, who are interested in your story, a church or a support group. Save it for them. I get the notion that it's like a horror movie, where no one else can see the monster but you. But yelling "MONSTER!" all of the time gets tiring, as life isn't a horror movie. It lasts a lot longer, and you're not the protagonist.
I ask you to think about this. If I am right, then you are helping deny people eternal live, eternal joy, and an opportunity to be a Son or Daughter of God for all eternity. You are encouraging them to do things that lead to judgment, punishment, and to eternal death.
What you are saying is that you know better than they do about how they should live their lives and therefore you're justified in denying their rights. When people disagree you want to call it oppression
Voting to deny rights because of your religion is wanting to create laws based on religious beliefs. That's why people get impatient with this type of Christian.
I'm under more oppression than Christians because the government forces me to pay the taxes that churches don't.
What you are saying is that you know better than they do about how they should live their lives and therefore you're justified in denying their rights. When people disagree you want to call it oppression
You probably don't see the irony in that statement. You want to tell me that you know better and want to tell me what kind of world I can life in.
As far as laws go, there is always a compromise between people and ideals. Always has been, and always will be, at least as long as our current system of government is in place.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
You probably don't see the irony in that statement. You want to tell me that you know better and want to tell me what kind of world I can life in.
As far as laws go, there is always a compromise between people and ideals. Always has been, and always will be, at least as long as our current system of government is in place.
I'm only telling you that you haven't provided facts to support the claim of Christian persecution.
You also added another claim that someone is telling you how to live your life.
Read what I said. I said that you are taking action to deny others their rights.
I'll leave it up to you to decide how to live your life.
Do churches pay property taxes? Nope, and neither does any other non-religious non-profit organization.
I have to pay my property taxes as well as pay to maintain my property. Churches pay to maintain their property just like everyone else, although they often have members volunteer services to do basic maintenance.
If churches don't pay property taxes then who covers that cost? I guess that depends on if it is handled like public land (I don't think the municipalities pay themselves property taxes for public parks and such), or private land with defaulted taxes.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
In a sense, yes. . It's called payment in lieu of taxes.
Churches do no such thing.
Government 101.
Last edited by Swish; 09/17/1502:15 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
In a sense, yes. . It's called payment in lieu of taxes.
In a sense? Where does the federal gov't. get the money to do this? In a sense, it comes from me. Right? No wonder gov't. buildings are some of the nicest buildings around.
Did the decision by the Nazi Party to imprison, torture, and kill Jews really affect ordinary Germans? A decision can be wrong morally, and maybe not "directly" impact the majority of people.
I have also stated the way I see things with regard to non-Christians attacking Christian institutions, like Christmas, and you disregard that. That's fine. Further, I demonstrated how Christians are basically being told to "keep their beliefs in private", instead of being able to life their beliefs as the Bible says to do, as well as the subtle pressure put forth by those, including the President, who have taken "freedom of religious expression", and turned it into "freedom of religious beliefs". We have seen examples lately, where a Christian dares to express his beliefs, and his employment is discontinued because he dares to say that he is a Christian, or wrote something Christian somewhere.
I do wonder what would happen if an Atheist wrote something similar to any of the Christians who have been fired for their religious expressions, and was fired as a result. I bet that the uproar would be incredible.
Yes, there is persecution of Christians in this world, and in this country. However, if you are on the side doing the persecuting, of course you are going to think it just doesn't exist.
Oh, and as far as the world itself ..... and or country in particular ..... ignore,ignore, ignore, and be careful not to say anything against Islam. This is especially true of our President.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Did the decision by the Nazi Party to imprison, torture, and kill Jews really affect ordinary Germans? A decision can be wrong morally, and maybe not "directly" impact the majority of people.
The Jews were ordinary Germans.
I have also stated the way I see things with regard to non-Christians attacking Christian institutions, like Christmas, and you disregard that. That's fine. Further, I demonstrated how Christians are basically being told to "keep their beliefs in private", instead of being able to life their beliefs as the Bible says to do, as well as the subtle pressure put forth by those, including the President, who have taken "freedom of religious expression", and turned it into "freedom of religious beliefs".
Wanting facts is not disregarding.
You didn't demonstrate anything. You expressed opinion, not facts. Show me evidence of a Christian losing a job for being Christian and for no other reason and then I said let's compare numbers.
We have seen examples lately, where a Christian dares to express his beliefs, and his employment is discontinued because he dares to say that he is a Christian, or wrote something Christian somewhere. Facts Y facts. Names and dates.
I do wonder what would happen if an Atheist wrote something similar to any of the Christians who have been fired for their religious expressions, and was fired as a result. I bet that the uproar would be incredible.
#10: Pennsylvania. Yes, I know. Everyone's expecting this list to be overloaded with the deep South. And I'll be getting there soon enough. But religious privilege and anti-atheist hostility don't stay below the Mason-Dixon line. Anti-atheist bigotry can, and does, happen anywhere.
And Pennsylvania is Exhibit A. Specifically, Annville, Pennsylvania, where atheist veterans marching in the Memorial Day parade were jeered, booed, insulted, cursed at, yelled at to leave, and told they were going to burn in hell. Not once or twice by a couple of fanatics... but repeatedly, throughout the course of the parade.
Let me spell that one out again. In small town America, veterans -- veterans, on Memorial Day, marching in a Memorial Day parade -- were jeered, booed, insulted, cursed at, yelled at to leave, and told they were going to burn in hell.
Because they were atheists.
'Nuff said.
#9: Idaho. Where atheist billboards -- not in-your-face controversial ones, but almost aggressively mild ones, simply announcing that atheists exist and are good people -- are vandalized on a regular basis. According to Maggie Ardiente of the American Humanist Association, "Thanks to a member of ours who lives in Moscow, Idaho, the AHA has been putting up billboards over the past two years to promote humanism and atheism. When we put up a factual, non-controversial billboard that said, 'Millions are Good Without God,' it was vandalized twice! We continue to put billboards in the area, but there is often additional security provided when we put up a new one."
Just like it says in the Bible: "And whatever place will not take you in and will not give ear to you, when you go away, put off the dust from your feet... and then deface their billboards like a douchebag."
#8: Arkansas. (I told you I'd get to the deep South!) Hey, at least in Idaho, atheists can put up their dang billboards. In Arkansas, the Central Arkansas Transit Authority (CATA) has flatly rejected an atheist ad that the Central Arkansas Coalition of Reason wanted to put up on 18 buses... solely and entirely because the content of the ads -- "Are you good without God? Millions are" -- is atheist.
I am not kidding. Even the public excuses being given for rejecting the ads -- possible vandalism and even "terrorism" due to the "controversial" nature of the ad -- are based on the fact that these ads have atheist content, expressing the "controversial" view that atheists, you know, exist, and are good people. And as the behind-the-scenes scrambling reveals, they are blatantly doing this based on religious hostility to atheism. Check this out:
In response to an e-mail message dated February 28, 2011, from Plaintiff's media broker to the Advertising Agent conveying the content of the Proposed Advertisement, the Advertising Agent forwarded the message to Betty Wineland, the Executive Director of the Authority, stating in her accompanying message (in its entirety): "Dear God......HELP!" Ms. Wineland replied: "I need Him now more than ever. Good grief. I think we need to throw religion into the advertising policy - as a negative. Stall while CATA reviews."
Let me spell this one out very plainly: A government-run public transit authority is rejecting religious-themed advertising -- solely because the religious view being advertised is the view that religion is mistaken. And no, they haven't changed their policy to reject all religious-themed ads. They still take religious-themed ads. Just not ones from atheists.
Oh, and in case you were wondering: Yes. They're being sued.
#7: Alabama. The state where the actual governor, Robert Bentley, said in actual words, "Anybody here today who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I'm telling you, you're not my brother and you're not my sister." The state where it took an interfaith delegation, led by the Anti-Defamation league, to inform him that there are non-Christians in Alabama. Non-Christians who -- I hope I don't have to remind you -- are fully fledged legal residents of the state. Non-Christians whom Bentley also serves as governor... every bit as much as he serves the Christians. As American Atheists president David Silverman says, "Top of my list is Alabama, home of Roy Moore and 'You are not my brother' Governor Bentley. It appears that to hold office in Alabama, you have to be completely ignorant of American Law and despise the Separation of Church and State."
Oh, and in case that's not enough: Let's talk about some places where it sucks to be an atheist in high school. Let's talk about the Secular Student Alliance, and its new program specifically devoted to supporting high school atheist groups. Let's talk about the resistance that atheist students routinely get from public high school administrators who want to block students from forming secular groups. And let's talk a little more about Alabama. The only state where the SSA has had to initiate a lawsuit about it.
Duncan Henderson wanted to form a secular club at his public school -- which he has the full legal right to do. But his school principal denied his request. According to JT Eberhard, campus organizer and high school specialist at the Secular Student Alliance, "When Duncan's father scheduled a meeting to discuss the matter, the principal showed up to the meeting with a lawyer, who more or less repeated, 'We're going to follow the law' in response to every question. But the school has not followed through on that promise to follow the law. The school has stonewalled, and attempts by the SSA to discuss the matter were met with an email from the school's attorney saying they're not going to speak to anybody."
Hence -- lawsuit. Which, as of this writing, is happening solely and entirely in the state of Alabama. As Eberhard added, "While it's not the first state in which we have seen pushback from adults in a position of authority over students to the idea of atheists forming clubs in the same way religious students form clubs, it is the first state in which we've had to bring in lawyers to fight for equality denied."
#6: North Carolina. Where in December of 2009, Cecil Bothwell couldn't even get elected to the Asheville City Council, without people trying to invoke laws -- antiquated laws overruled by the Supreme Court, but laws nonetheless -- banning him from taking office because he's an atheist.
Okay. Let's be fair. This isn't exactly an isolated case. Lauren Becker of the Center for Inquiry points out that several states have antiquated laws on the books banning atheists from holding office. "The Supreme Court has said that federal law prohibits states from requiring a religious test to serve office," she says, but "there are still some states that have such laws, whether they enforce them or not."
North Carolina, however, has the distinction of actually trying to enforce one of these laws. Less than a year and a half ago.
#5. Florida. On the other hand, in Florida, you might get kicked out of a city council meeting simply for wearing an atheist T-shirt. And if you protest against prayers at city council meetings, you might actually get arrested.
So that's gotta suck.
#4: Rhode Island. Did you hear the one about the public high school with the prayer banner in the school gym -- a prayer banner specifically addressed to "Our Heavenly Father"? The public high school that got asked to take the banner down by 15-year-old atheist high school student Jessica Ahlquist, since it's an unconstitutional promotion of religion by government? The public high school that's digging in its heels and hanging on to the banner, despite decades of unambiguous legal precedent making it clear that they're in the wrong? The public high school that's getting sued by said atheist high school student and the ACLU... and is still digging in its heels, devoting extensive time and resources to defending their promotion of religion?
That's Rhode Island, folks. And this story isn't just about a school administration insisting on its right to unconstitutionally establish religion. It's about a community's ostracization of an atheist teenager -- in some cases to the point of threats of violence. Ahlquist has been shunned, insulted, vilified, and even threatened with violence. Students in an English class in her school said -- during class -- that she should be "smacked around and beat up" for fighting the prayer banner. Comments in the Providence Journal article on the story were ugly, personal, even threatening -- to a great extent about the ACLU, but largely about Ahlquist herself. ("I think you need to talk to a doctor and get help... you are sick in the head." "Looks like we have a moon bat in the making." "Make no mistake, Jessica and the Bolshevik thugs representing her are driven by anti-Christian bigotry and intolerance and censorship... Curse them to hell.")n fact, according to the Providence Journal, Ahlquist and another student were removed from their regular classroom schedule last month -- after some students said they intended to harm her. To quote JT Eberhard, high school specialist at the Secular Student Alliance, "In the city of Cranston, an entire community, perhaps an entire state of adults, is engaging in a smear campaign against a single high school student. Her crime? Believing her school violates the first amendment by hanging a prayer banner in the gym invoking the phrases 'Our heavenly father' and 'Amen'."
And this is in New England. This is Rhode Island. The first of the 13 original colonies to declare independence from British rule. The state specifically founded as a place of religious freedom, as a response to religious persecution. A slat in the cradle of liberty. And they are vilifying and threatening a 15-year-old girl for being an atheist, and for insisting that her public school follow the Constitution and not shove religion down her throat. Anti-atheist bigotry is everywhere. It's not just in Alabama or Mississippi. Or even Texas.
#3: Texas. Wow. Where do you start with Texas? The public high school graduation ceremony that was like a revival meeting? The transit company that changed their policies and stopped accepting any bus ads for any religious organizations... just so they wouldn't have to take ads from atheists? The governor who responded to economic troubles, natural disasters, and terrorism by initiating a state day of prayer, and has exhorted Texans to "call on Jesus"? The governor, again, who decreed three official state Days of Prayer for Rain? The public school where they distribute Bibles? The high school textbooks which teach that the Bible was a "foundational text" in the framing of the U.S., that the King James Bible "remains one of the... most-loved books in the history of the world," and that "the sun went black" when Jesus was crucified? The state Constitution that says, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being"? The teachers that get fired, not for being atheists, but for being suspected of being atheists? The town where they get seriously hysterical about atheists playing "Jingle Bells" in a Christmas parade?
Come on. Did you really expect Texas not to be on this list?
#2: Mississippi. I could say a lot about Mississippi. For instance, I could talk about how, when the Second Chance Prom was being organized for lesbian student Constance McMillan, the state chapter of the freaking ACLU refused to take money from the American Humanist Association and the Stiefel Freethought Foundation... because it was atheist money. In an e-mail message to AHA, Jennifer Carr, the fundraiser for the ACLU of Mississippi, said, "Although we support and understand organizations like yours, the majority of Mississippians tremble in terror at the word 'atheist.'" The ACLU would later apologize and accept the money; but, as Maggie Ardiente of the AHA, puts it, "We were very disappointed to see an organization that's famously known for standing up for everyone's rights -- including the right to be an atheist or humanist -- initially discriminate against us."
That's reasonably messed-up. But I want to focus instead on a much more practical, nuts-and-bolts, life-screwing-up form of anti-atheist bigotry -- child custody.
It is depressingly common for atheists to have child custody limited, or even denied, explicitly on the basis of their atheism. Cases have been documented again and again and again, in states including Michigan, Minnesota, Arkansas, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Texas. But according to Eugene Volokh of The Volokh Conspiracy, "Mississippi is the most serious offender." Volokh goes on to say, "In 2001, for instance, the Mississippi Supreme Court upheld an order giving a mother custody partly because she took the child to church more often than the father did, thus providing a better 'future religious example.' In 2000, it ordered a father to take the child to church each week, as a [lower] Mississippi court ordered... reasoning that 'it is certainly to the best interests of [the child] to receive regular and systematic spiritual training.'"
Try to imagine a judge in this country denying or limiting custody to a parent, explicitly and specifically, because they were Jewish. Because they were Mormon. Because they were Baptist. And now, try to imagine a judge in this country denying or limiting custody to a parent, explicitly and specifically because they're an atheist. You don't have to imagine it. This is real. This happens. And it happens in Mississippi more than anywhere else in the country.
And finally, we come to my Number One Worst State to Be an Atheist:
#1: Louisiana.
I freely admit that this list, and the order I'm presenting it, is subjective. It's not based on a careful statistical analysis of rigorously gathered data based on journalistically objective criteria about anti-atheist bigotry. It's based on stories that happened to get my atheist dander up. It's based on stories that made me sad -- and enraged.
And the story that happened in Louisiana made me sad, and enraged, more than almost any other.
I'm talking about Damon Fowler.
I'm talking about the atheist high school student who opposed his public school having a school-sponsored prayer at his graduation. Whose name was leaked. And who, as a result, was hounded, pilloried, and ostracized by his community; publicly demeaned by one of his teachers; physically threatened; and thrown out by his parents, who cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and threw his belongings onto the front porch. Whose public school went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway. Who has had to leave his home and move in with his sister near Dallas, Texas.
You know things are bad when your atheist safe haven from extremist religious persecution is in Texas.
That's Louisiana.
Worst. State. Ever.
And you wanna know the really sad thing? This piece could have been a lot longer. This could easily have been the 20 Worst States to Be an Atheist. The 30 Worst. Heck... the 50 Worst.
You've got Maryland. Where yet another atheist high school student started a group, whose posters were torn down by other students -- and where actual parents of those students wrote letters to the editor supporting the vandalism, and calling the atheist posters "an atrocity." You've got Georgia. Where students taking their AP tests at a church were proselytized to by church members. You've got Utah. Where, says American Atheists president David Silverman, "The state attorney general is trying to have the Roman Cross pronounced secular so it can be placed on public buildings and schools without regard to equal access." You've got Oklahoma. Where still another public high school student tried to start an atheist group, and was accused by his principle of trying to start a "hate group"... and where the faculty advisor for the group suddenly withdrew, saying she had been told sponsoring the group would be "a bad career move." You've got... oh, you get the idea.
Is anti-atheist bigotry as bad as homophobia or racism, misogyny or transphobia? No, probably not. Not for the most part. I don't like comparing oppressions; it's divisive and pointless, and I don't think anything is gained by playing "more oppressed than thou." There are a few ways that anti-atheist bigotry is worse than others -- the roadblocks being tossed up against high school students leap to mind, as does the whole "least trusted/least likely to be voted for" thing. But atheists don't seem to be subject to the same level of physical violence as gay or trans people -- or the same level of economic oppression as women or people of color. And I'm not saying that they are.
My point is not that anti-atheist bigotry is as bad as other forms of bigotry. It exists. It is real. It happens all over the country. And it has real-world consequences.
So if you're ever tempted to ask why atheists are so angry, or why they have to kick up such a fuss all the time, or why they want to organize and form groups based on what they don't believe in... remember that.
Yes, there is persecution of Christians in this world, and in this country. However, if you are on the side doing the persecuting, of course you are going to think it just doesn't exist.
Oh, and as far as the world itself ..... and or country in particular ..... ignore,ignore, ignore, and be careful not to say anything against Islam. This is especially true of our President.
The scariest state in which to find oneself as an Atheist?
Death.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Yes, Jews were ordinary citizens. You, of course understood the point I was making ... but chose to make a smart comment instead.
I will allow you to do your own research about Christians who have been fired for expressing a Christian viewpoint. There have been numerous examples posted on this very board. I will give you a couple examples off the top of my head. A guy named Frank Turek wrote a book that was against gay marriage. He was a consultant for Cisco, and Bank of America. He had done consulting work for both companies for a very long time, (15 years with BOA) and his views were not unknown to them. However, he did not speak about those views in his training. He did leadership and team building training.
A Navy Chaplain, of all things, was fired for holding Christian beliefs. There are, of course 2 sides to the story, but the bottom line is that he was supposedly "not tolerant" of other religions. Why would a Christian Chaplain be tolerant of other religions?
College professors refuse to even accept papers on Christianity, or with a Christian slant. (even when the papers are within the scope of the assignment) One girl received 4 "zeros" in a row because she did not refute and deny Christianity in her papers.
The list goes on and on. Christian students in colleges are told that they cannot speak about Christianity except in ridiculously placed (and tiny) "free speech zones".
Look around this world. If you have eyes, you will see.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I will allow you to do your own research about Christians who have been fired for expressing a Christian viewpoint. There have been numerous examples posted on this very board. I will give you a couple examples off the top of my head. A guy named Frank Turek wrote a book that was against gay marriage. He was a consultant for Cisco, and Bank of America. He had done consulting work for both companies for a very long time, (15 years with BOA) and his views were not unknown to them. However, he did not speak about those views in his training. He did leadership and team building training.
Cisco and BoA flip flopped on this. They admitted it was a mistake and BoA reinstated him.
Quote:
A Navy Chaplain, of all things, was fired for holding Christian beliefs. There are, of course 2 sides to the story, but the bottom line is that he was supposedly "not tolerant" of other religions. Why would a Christian Chaplain be tolerant of other religions?
The navy ended up not forcing out Wesley Modder and found no evidence of misconduct.
Quote:
College professors refuse to even accept papers on Christianity, or with a Christian slant. (even when the papers are within the scope of the assignment) One girl received 4 "zeros" in a row because she did not refute and deny Christianity in her papers.
The list goes on and on. Christian students in colleges are told that they cannot speak about Christianity except in ridiculously placed (and tiny) "free speech zones".
Look around this world. If you have eyes, you will see.
College Campus's have created a secular dogma and hug boxes in an effort to be inoffensive. It does include Christianity and so many other things. It creates a culture in which anything that doesn't conform to a very narrow viewpoint is shunned and ostracized...
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” – Aristotle
College professors refuse to even accept papers on Christianity, or with a Christian slant. (even when the papers are within the scope of the assignment) One girl received 4 "zeros" in a row because she did not refute and deny Christianity in her papers.
My daughter wrote a paper for a psych class researching the effectiveness of religious faith for AA.
Turned it in, got a grade and there was debate in class without anyone getting upset or making claims that there was oppression.
College professors refuse to even accept papers on Christianity, or with a Christian slant. (even when the papers are within the scope of the assignment) One girl received 4 "zeros" in a row because she did not refute and deny Christianity in her papers.
My daughter wrote a paper for a psych class researching the effectiveness of religious faith for AA.
Turned it in, got a grade and there was debate in class without anyone getting upset or making claims that there was oppression.
And other Muslim kids have taken science projects to school without being arrested or mistreated in any way.. but this is the United States of America, we must react and overreact to specific incidences where things go wrong.
The scariest state in which to find oneself as an Atheist?
Death.
I'm still catching up from being suspended but I just saw this and thought it was spot on.
Someday you folks will realize the Christians are NOT telling you how to live your lives, they are warning you of the consequences of living your lives. Out of concern for you they issue this warning, trying to open your eyes to the truth.
It is my hope you all will someday realize this fact, hopefully before the wailing and gnashing of teeth begins.
The scariest state in which to find oneself as an Atheist?
Death.
I'm still catching up from being suspended but I just saw this and thought it was spot on.
Someday you folks will realize the Christians are NOT telling you how to live your lives, they are warning you of the consequences of living your lives. Out of concern for you they issue this warning, trying to open your eyes to the truth.
It is my hope you all will someday realize this fact, hopefully before the wailing and gnashing of teeth begins.
So when you call for oral sex to be banned and criminalized, because it's a sin against God, you don't feel that you're telling people how to live their lives?
So when you vote Democrat and I vote Republican, you are telling me who should be my President? Perhaps you are just voting your own beliefs on the subject.
So when you vote Democrat and I vote Republican, you are telling me who should be my President? Perhaps you are just voting your own beliefs on the subject.
I very rarely vote Democrat, and this analogy makes absolutely no sense. A vote for president is far different from constantly arguing that we need to ban oral and anal sex in America, and then arguing that you're not trying to tell people how to live their lives.
Oh Balony. If it came to a yes allowed, no not allowed vote, how would you vote?
On two people being allowed to have oral and anal sex? They should be allowed. This is a free country, not a theocracy or some Communist totalitarian dictatorship. If you want to live in a place like that, I would suggest Iran or China.
I congregate, give, and get support all the time not just on Sunday morning. 
