DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown continued

Good point. Who feels like listening to all their past mistakes and failures. He has the opportunity to start brand new and make a good name for himself. Good luck Johnny!!!

Another point against the Bucs Marriota only threw 16 passes, I know he had alot of TD's but that is a very low number of pass plays so I think that says the Bucs were soundly beaten on all fronts. Also remember how the Buckeyes shut Mariotta down last year in the championship game. Let's see how he does against a good defense, not saying we have one but I pray we are better than the Bucs and what they showed last week.

I can forgive, I don't have to forget.

To forgive is to drop it.

Nope. Trust is earned.

Forgiving has nothing to do with trust. Forgiving is to stop punishing for past infractions.

Trust has to do with the forgetting. If you can't forget, and who of us can, then any trust has been broken. Often times beyond repair.

Forgiving is earned in the same way as trust and forgetting. Through a person accepting their responsibility for their own behavior, apologizing for the harm it has caused, and taking significant action to change. Forgiving is the early stage of established trust. Someone might be recovering from their screw up, but committed to change, that is the time they are forgiven. Forgetting is the late earned stage of established trust when the behavior is so long ago and the change so permanent that is is unlikely to repeat ever again. Trust is a spectrum, with forgiving being at the low end and forgetting being at the high end. Dropping the subject falls somewhere in the low to middle area of the spectrum depending on who you talk to, reminders of past mistakes / voicing your lack of trust aren't the same as punishment.

Johnny spent a long time in rehab. I'd need to know more about if he relapses at all, but as an action I felt he earned some forgiveness / trust for the time he spent in there. Since we are still in potential relapse time we can't forget and completely trust yet though.

I feel much better about him as a potential QB this year than last year. I'm actually excited to see how he does this week, even if he bombs.

Sattelite internet mistake

Very good post.

j/c:

I read a few articles about Josh not being cleared, including some of the comments. One guy had a funny one:

LOL that's like a reverse Catch 22 isn't it?

What you fail to seem to wish to discuss, is that working for a corporation is not a marriage. Your performance, past, present and future is always part of a corporation reviewing you and seeing how they are getting a return on their investment. And that's exactly what NFL players are, employees.

When you work for a corporation, your progress and work record are a part of the equation whether one likes that or not. It's a part of your resume'.

We can discontinue talking about it, but it's there as a part of your career no matter what.

I failed nothing. I was not addressing a corporation or what matters to it. I was addressing a poster who, like many, keep bringing up last season and won't let it go.

Manziel screwed up last year. Ok. Done.

In the off season he addressed that issue and seems to be on track now. Granted, it's his second season and that should have been done in his first. He likely could be starter material this year if he had. But he didn't.

Crying over spilt milk doesn't get it back into the glass. No amount of discussing that changes anything nor does it enlighten the discussion with any information we don't already know. To me it's just lamenting on what 'coulda/shoulda' been. Ok then, lets dwell on that. Not!

To me it's like if I lamented on the fact that I used to be young but now I'm old and crying or even being concerned about all the things I could have done right when I was young, but didn't. It's over. I can only progress from here and now. To point out my mistakes from yesteryear is being stuck in the past, while I attempt to focus on my best from now and into the future.

If you see me screwing up my life now then please, point it out. If you see me doing well at this time then please, encourage me. But if you're looking at the guy I used to be back then in an attempt to use that against me, well, I don't hear you.

No one has to see it from my point of view. I could be wrong. But to me the only thing important, now that he has addressed his issues and appears to put in the effort, is that he keeps improving to be the QB the FO believed he could be when they drafted him. Going forward that's what we should evaluate him on, not last season.

I hope, as do many, probably most, that he'll progress, the light will come on, the game will slow down for him and he'll be an asset for the team.

This part of your post I'll most certainly agree with. I do believe an entire resume' is built in the professional world on everything you have done to this point. So I guess we'll disagree on that part.

I certainly see that JFF has turned a corner in regards to his willingness to learn and try to be the best JFF he can be. What that will end up being I don't believe any of us can be sure of.

You're not wrong ddub. That post was spot on.

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/646338460232642565

Has McCown been hanging out with Sidney Crosby?

Watching Pettine on NFL Network this morning, and he said that the staff has made a decision .... if McCown is cleared. He reiterated that McCown is not yet out of the protocol. but he also said that he needs to talk to both guys before he announces anything. It just seemed a little bit, the way he said things, that Manziel is going to start even if McCown is cleared.

A career changing decision.

Not really. It will be really easy to go back to McCown after one week if we lose to the Raiders. Just say, "We wanted to see what Manziel could do, but he wasn't as ready as we thought he was."

Boom. McCown is back.

Yes really....Pettine could still start McCown if he clears concussion protocol. And Boom ....the Heisman winner sits while Haslam watches from his box as the Brown's lose games.

Yeah they made a comment on 92.3 this Am along the lines of "start him but tell him he's on a very short leash", pretty much the same convo that Houston coach had with their qbs and pretty much saying "you're the starter, but you need and are expected to produce or we'll make a change" I saw on Hard Knocks.

I've not listened to today's pressers or anything, but sounded like they were mindset on Josh if he could clear. I hope YTown's prediction is accurate!

Let's see what this kid can do!

We shouldn't forget to take into consideration that McCown will be haphazardly throw his body into harm's way as soon as humanly possible . . .

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about a career changing decision for Pettine.

And that's he's Josh McCown.

I'm sorry but it could be a career changing decision for Pet. if McCown is cleared. We'll see.

I don't see how Pettine can go back to McCown. I mean you have Haslam telling the HC what to do. Then there's Farmer. I know he's suspended, but nobody can actually trace those carrier pigeon messages being sent to Berea.

I think you say Josh didn't clear the concussion protocol until too late in the week for us to get him ready for the Raiders, so we are starting Johnny. IF he has a great game then you can come out and say he earned the starting role. If he has a bad game and Pet decides to go back to Josh then he can say that Josh never lost the starting job,

If whoever starts the Raiders game loses, the other guy will start the next week.

I'm hoping Johnny starts against a pretty bad Oakland defense.

I don't understand how you can start McCown with the investment of a first round pick in Manziel. If you are not sure what you have in Johnny and feel he is replaceable in the near future, evaluate the guy under real, regular season competition.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

If you do not start Manziel you are wasting the future. We already know what we have in McCown.....

So you're saying that if we don't start Manziel immediately that he's wasted and can't start later on?

j/c

I'm a little torn starting Manziel. McCown won the job in preseason. Coaches determined he gave Browns a better chance winning games. His only chance? He moved the offense down field on the opening kickoff missing a TD by a 1/2 a yard. This is the same defense that shut Manziel and Luck down. Manziel did well against Tennessee another good defense.

If Manziel starts, what is Pettine saying to the team about the playoffs? Johnny needed only two weeks to unseat McCown? McCown got most of the reps in preseason. If Johnny was this close, why is no one questioning Pettine on Manziel's rep counts? What happen last year when he switched? What is the message Pettine giving when a player is injured?

I like Johnny. I'm excited he did well, but I want Johnny to take the job. McCown showed enough to start. Give him his due. Give him the chance to lose it. I get his past, but he did win this preseason.

How did McCown win the job? I think it was handed to him.

JM is the future or he isn't.

McCown is NOT the future. That is an absolute truth.

This team is going nowhere this season. Time to find out if JM is the guy or not.

Pettine, Flip, and a few veterans stated many times Josh had a grasp of the offense and knew defensive schemes. To me, that says Johnny's knowledge is lacking.

If Josh is as bad as his past showed, how long do you think it will take?

Take about "same ol'Browns"...we ain't going to win, so week #3 chuck the season seeing what our younger players can do! As a veteran, I'll shut it down early collecting a check looking for a new team to play next year.

You are making sense, but I am just not sure that McCown gives us a better chance of winning than Johnny does.

Can you guarantee that McCown does indeed give us a better chance of winning? If not, why not see what you got in the new guy?

I highly doubt anyone is excited about McCown. I trust Pettine when he named him the starter, though. Pettine still seems to be a no-nonesense guy, so I'll take him at his word.

I understand your position, but what Pet and Farmer have done thus far regarding the qb position lends NOTHING to me believing in them regarding the position.

What happens if Johnny continues the season playing more like he did in the Jets game? Do we second guess Pettine decision? Heck Yea!!!

Again, I'm torn. I want to see Johnny play. Is Johnny ready? What happen to the 900 Browns rookie QBs who were pushed into playing to early?

I get players need reps. I also get lack of knowledge hurts. Is it the reason our offense looked so vanilla against Tennessee?

I could care less if we second guess Pet for playing JM.

What happens if we play McCown all year and we win 4 games? Will he be second guessed?

I think it is a no-brainer for two reasons:

--We gotta see if we need to go all-in regarding drafting a qb high in the draft.

--The Browns have no shot of making the Super Bowl this year. See what you have and what you need to do moving forward.