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I don't know. That is why I'm asking.
I didn't listen to the presser. Someone else mentioned it on the Post Game thread.
Haden, maybe? I'm really kinda perplexed on this one. No coach should sell out his players like that. That's when they start to question him. This is not going to end well. Its going to end very well, because this staff will be replaced I can't believe people are talking like this. If the staff is replaced, we're doing nothing but exactly the same thing we have since 1999. Hire, fire. And everyone gets all excited for a short term and "hire, fire". Who would want to come to a team that has struggled for 15 years knowing they only have a bit over a year to turn it around or be in risk of being fired? Geez - even last year some wanted the GM replaced, the coach replaced........ How often do we need to fire every one and start over? An average of every 2 years isn't often enough?
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I'd like to see that replay on the last interception. I believe Woodson bobbled it and it wasn't a clean interception that was not reviewed. I thought so too. I know all turnovers are reviewed, but that sure as hell went quickly. Oakland ran their kneel down not even a minute after the pick. It at least deserved a closer look. They showed it a few times. He had it under control and had taken three steps before going out of bounds.
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I don't know. That is why I'm asking.
I didn't listen to the presser. Someone else mentioned it on the Post Game thread.
Haden, maybe? I'm really kinda perplexed on this one. No coach should sell out his players like that. That's when they start to question him. This is not going to end well. Its going to end very well, because this staff will be replaced I can't believe people are talking like this. If the staff is replaced, we're doing nothing but exactly the same thing we have since 1999. Hire, fire. And everyone gets all excited for a short term and "hire, fire". Who would want to come to a team that has struggled for 15 years knowing they only have a bit over a year to turn it around or be in risk of being fired? Geez - even last year some wanted the GM replaced, the coach replaced........ How often do we need to fire every one and start over? An average of every 2 years isn't often enough? because its been proven that with a competent staff turnarounds don't take that long to start forming.. We show no evidence of that.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I don't know. That is why I'm asking.
I didn't listen to the presser. Someone else mentioned it on the Post Game thread.
Haden, maybe? I'm really kinda perplexed on this one. No coach should sell out his players like that. That's when they start to question him. This is not going to end well. Its going to end very well, because this staff will be replaced I can't believe people are talking like this. If the staff is replaced, we're doing nothing but exactly the same thing we have since 1999. Hire, fire. And everyone gets all excited for a short term and "hire, fire". Who would want to come to a team that has struggled for 15 years knowing they only have a bit over a year to turn it around or be in risk of being fired? Geez - even last year some wanted the GM replaced, the coach replaced........ How often do we need to fire every one and start over? An average of every 2 years isn't often enough? because its been proven that with a competent staff turnarounds don't take that long to start forming.. We show no evidence of that. It stinks to say, but this is true. If a team isn't good under the first few years with a new coach, they probably will never be good.
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I'd like to see that replay on the last interception. I believe Woodson bobbled it and it wasn't a clean interception that was not reviewed. I thought so too. I know all turnovers are reviewed, but that sure as hell went quickly. Oakland ran their kneel down not even a minute after the pick. It at least deserved a closer look. They showed it a few times. He had it under control and had taken three steps before going out of bounds. if you watch it closer in between the first and second step... it moved all over the place.
Meh.
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It stinks to say, but this is true. If a team isn't good under the first few years with a new coach, they probably will never be good.
Pet's had 1 year and 3 games. I cannot believe people are wanting him fired at this point. In my best Mike Tyson voice "that's ludicrous".
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I don't know. That is why I'm asking.
I didn't listen to the presser. Someone else mentioned it on the Post Game thread.
Haden, maybe? I'm really kinda perplexed on this one. No coach should sell out his players like that. That's when they start to question him. This is not going to end well. Its going to end very well, because this staff will be replaced I can't believe people are talking like this. If the staff is replaced, we're doing nothing but exactly the same thing we have since 1999. Hire, fire. And everyone gets all excited for a short term and "hire, fire". Who would want to come to a team that has struggled for 15 years knowing they only have a bit over a year to turn it around or be in risk of being fired? Geez - even last year some wanted the GM replaced, the coach replaced........ How often do we need to fire every one and start over? An average of every 2 years isn't often enough? I think in my mind this year - it's just odd. Game #1 - we have 1 good quarter - granted JM had to come in so I'll give a pass. Game #2 we play 2 good quarters and 1/2 of the 4th. Today - we play 1 decent quarter in the 4th. We came out so flat today and just uninspired and off-key - really looked like lack of effort for a lot of the game. We just had a good win last week so why so flat? We have so many O penalties and every time we are within the 5 yard line - we have a false start. It just seems like we are not prepared and lack discipline. Maybe I read this wrong? At the end of the day this is an NFL team and while wins/losses can't always be controlled - and you may not have the talent you need - you can at least field a team that is playing hard, not making mental mistakes, and can tackle. I can't figure out if Pet and the coaching crew [and they don't have a lot of NFL experience] can perform at this level. The Brown's are their first gig for a lot of the coaches so we don't even know what they can do.. Let me ask this - if we got a stud QB, would this coaching staff be able to build us into a constantly winning team? Last year I would have said yes...this year nothing is giving me that same confidence - so far.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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It stinks to say, but this is true. If a team isn't good under the first few years with a new coach, they probably will never be good.
Pet's had 1 year and 3 games. I cannot believe people are wanting him fired at this point. In my best Mike Tyson voice "that's ludicrous". I don't want to fire him "at this point." But if we finish 4-12, then there isn't much hope for him anyway.
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Let me ask this - if we got a stud QB, would this coaching staff be able to build us into a constantly winning team? Last year I would have said yes...this year nothing is giving me that same confidence - so far. Having a stud QBs cures many ills. The Colts have had one of the worst rosters in the league the past several years and it didn't matter because of Andrew Luck.
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The difference between McCown throwing the ball and Derick Carr throwing the ball is like night and day.
McCown -slow long release with little zip.
Carr - short compact delivery, super quick release, can really spin it.
The defense got gashed. Second game with zero pass rush. The first game was the Jets. Similar results.
Mingo had two impact plays: running into the punter and getting dragged two yards into the end zone.
=====================================================
We were supposed to be able to run the ball and stop the run. That is where we have invested heavily. Not happening.
McCown is the definition of mediocre. He can do some things but he is very limited.
Although I disagreed with starting McCown; I understand their reasoning in starting him. However, in the end analysis it is my humble opinion that Manziel actually gives the Browns the better chance to win.
The Raiders are a team on the rise. They have some real good talent on the team.
During the draft process there was no question about Carr's ability to throw the ball. His problem was handling pressure. He is developing and quickly. Carr to Cooper is going to be a problem for all teams.
Looking at the Jets and Raiders and seeing how they torched the Browns; it does not look good for this team as the schedule only gets tougher.
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The good? Not much. Our punter?
The bad? TOO much....
The ugly? The rest of this season if they keep playing this way. The wheels could come flying off very easily this season. We just got done with the EASY part of our schedule. Ouch.
This teams defense is reminding me of Mangini's teams. Can't tackle worth spit, constantly fail to set the edge, and have no clue how to generate a consistent pass rush.
Wasn't this supposed to be a top five defense? Wasn't Pettine supposed to be a defensive guru? Why is it every time we hire a DC to be our HC our defense sucks ass?
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I don't know. That is why I'm asking.
I didn't listen to the presser. Someone else mentioned it on the Post Game thread.
Haden, maybe? I'm really kinda perplexed on this one. No coach should sell out his players like that. That's when they start to question him. This is not going to end well. Its going to end very well, because this staff will be replaced I can't believe people are talking like this. If the staff is replaced, we're doing nothing but exactly the same thing we have since 1999. Hire, fire. And everyone gets all excited for a short term and "hire, fire". Who would want to come to a team that has struggled for 15 years knowing they only have a bit over a year to turn it around or be in risk of being fired? Geez - even last year some wanted the GM replaced, the coach replaced........ How often do we need to fire every one and start over? An average of every 2 years isn't often enough? Don't get the wrong impression Arch and I certainly ain't calling for anyone to get canned yet, this regime has had more to work with in terms of talent and in terms of draft picks and cap space then any regime since we returned and they have to date done nothing IMO. They have told all who would listen that we were a run team, not true That they would minimize the QB position, not true. That they would improve or correct the run D not true, and the list goes on but in the interest of time just what is it that's better, oh that's right the Bull S&^%. Sorry guys I shouldn't be upset after all I knew we were being sold a used car back when these guys started talking about minimizing the QB spot. This regime is the equal to Pig Face unit their so smart their stupid. I expected us to be 2-14 this year so far the team is on schedule, and just in case we got Train Wreck McCown for insurance.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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It stinks to say, but this is true. If a team isn't good under the first few years with a new coach, they probably will never be good.
Pet's had 1 year and 3 games. I cannot believe people are wanting him fired at this point. In my best Mike Tyson voice "that's ludicrous". Sure. Pettine is awesome. I love that he has ZERO emotion. Because an emotionless coach breeds an emotionless team. And I LOVE how this team just plain doesn't care if we lose. It's AWESOME. Here's hoping we have five more years of football like today. They are playing like Browns! Lets keep it that way. We sure as hell wouldn't want o hire a HC that actually won games. A guy that gets PISSED OFF when we lose. That would be a terrible thing..... If Pettine doesn't light a fire under this team and start winning then he sure as hell doesn't need to be here. We HAVE to start playing good football on ONE side of the ball at least.... Pettine is supposed to be a defensive coach? Well then get this damned D up and running. No excuses.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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During the game I took an inventory of the Browns/Raiders offensive skill positions just to see which I preferred:
Derek Carr vs Josh McCown - This wasn't even CLOSE ... Carr is already WAY, WAY better
Latavius Murray vs Isaiah Crowell - This wasn't even CLOSE ... Murray is quick/decisive/elusive
Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, Andre Holmes vs any combination of 3 we could manage - LOL, yeah
Marcel Reece vs Gary Barnidge - ehhh ... we'll say push, but Reece is so versatile
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Ugly:
We had Barnidge "blocking" Khalil Mack one on one multiple times during runs plays.
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I think Jim Dray whiffed on someone big time IIRC too
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Good points about the zero sacks.
Sorry for going off. I'm disgusted w/this team. The sad thing is that IF more people went off, and stayed home, Berea MIGHT actually pay attention to the product being placed on the field. Right now, no way. A LOT of people SHOULD be going off. Year after year of continuous crap. At some point, enough has to be enough.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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I think Jim Dray whiffed on someone big time IIRC too Good thing our tight ends are "good" "blockers."
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i still can't believe how bad our defense is right now ... it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to field a consistently worse team Are you Mike Polk Jr.?
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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Yeah, I'll just keep my opinion to myself from here on out. You can keep asking for new coaches and gm's every year and a half.
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This team is built on the conservative approach of Ray Farmer and a HC who is out of his element.
This team has nothing going for it.
They know deep inside it's another yr of missing the playoffs.
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i still can't believe how bad our defense is right now ... it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to field a consistently worse team Are you Mike Polk Jr.? lol no
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The salient points have already been posted - no point in repeating them. However, a few are worth emphasis:
- 341 yds psssing, that's very good. Less than 50 yds rushing, that's unacceptable.
- Pass blocking was decent (against a very strong rush); run blocking non-existant. Get that FB out of there; he nearly got McCown killed!
- I thought the overall effort, for the most part, was good, but didn't see much emotion.
- Improved offence in the second half, either a half-time adjustment or dictated by the score.
- Defensively, our pass rush is non-existent. With all the talent in the league (and I include ours) these days, no secondary can survive without a good pass rush.
- We are not a power, run-first team; we are not setup that way. We cannot use the run to set up the pass. It hasn't worked this year, and it didn't work last year. I believe our coaching staff to be competent; a refocus is necessary....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I was thinking the same thing. We are a passing team, but with no QB. That seems like a bad thing.
The last few drives McCown had plenty of time to throw and we moved the ball pretty successfully.
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J/c:
I think we have missed on too many draft picks and
Free agents. I think we are soft. We get pushed around. I think our leaders don't get the offensive skill positions. Last week I read about taking away Johnny's long td passes..... would have been nice to have hit those today.
I really don't see what we have to lose by replacing these guys. I hate saying that, but I don't think these guys get it.
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What guys? Our coaching staff? If so, where are you going to find them at this time?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The good: I smoked a brisket today, and it turned out fantastic. Williams, Hartline, Benji, Lee and Coons had good games.
The bad: Really disappointed in our "good" players, i.e. Thomas Mack, Bitonio, Dansby, Kruger, Whitner. They hung their heads in despair just like the youngsters....same as the Jets game. This time they stepped it up a bit at the end. You shouldn't have to pull your head out of your arse, it shouldn't be their in the first place.
The ugly: Joe Haden owned all game by a rookie? WTF is up with that.
The inexperience of our coaching staff and GM are trending ugly.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The Ugly ... Our CBs... but also our edge on defense. Other teams lull us into a false sense of security, then catch us off guard every single time.
In today's game, the Raiders knew our run defense was weak on the edges, but early in the game they chose to attack the middle. If they could break through, then they had the keys to the kingdom for their run game. We held our own for the most part and beat our chests thinking "we got this"! Then **BAM** they attack our edges for large gains, leaving us dazed and confused. Why is this so hard to fix?
During the game, I think I saw Pettine yell Belichick's mantra..."Do your Job"!
Last edited by Browns_D02; 09/27/15 08:35 PM.
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Why is this so hard to fix? Because we have players who are not good at stopping the run (Kruger, Robertson, Kirksey, Orchard, Mingo, etc.).
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Another bad. McCown has a really long wind-up. Takes a long time to release it. He gets more passes batted down than a much shorter Manziel.
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I know we have made some bad draft picks but are they all THAT bad? Or does this coaching staff not know how to develop/coach players?
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I know we have made some bad draft picks but are they all THAT bad? Or does this coaching staff not know how to develop/coach players? When you consistently play "THAT bad," you are "THAT bad."
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Part of this is not having a passing game to open up the run.
No Craps Given
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GOOD.
- Took them a while, but finally worked the tight end.
- A faint pulse on checking off to the backs.
- Hartline
BAD,
- McCown is now scared to run & has trouble throwing the long ball.
- WHY, go after the punt block. we were going to get good field position. Cost us 7 for no reason.
- Run game. Mack, Greco & Schwartz must feel they're moving on after the season's over & Bitonio is reading his own press clippings. Where is a screen pass? First draw play of the yr.
- M Johnson blocked like a Pussy today.
UGLY,
- Overall tackling, PATHETIC.
- Total linebacker play, Dansby is slow & can't fill the hole at the point of attack.
- Whitner is not having a good season, also slow, getting targeted.
- Sorry Joe, a rookie made you look like Bademosi.
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Trich, Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert, Manziel, Hardesty, Erving, Taylor, Ward, Gordon.
Most of these guys are not even on the team anymore. The others are not tearing up the league elsewhere.
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Yep. I said that all offseason. Of course, the know it alls said I was just being a hater.
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Is why Manziel should start next week. He can make more throws than McCown.
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I doubt that will happen. These guys are stubborn and even though they aren't offensive guys, they think they are.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Oakland
27 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
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