DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Farmer's draft picks, game by game

I know there is no proof, but I get the sense that JFF was Haslam's pick. So I am worried that he will make himself part of the process with the #1 overall pick and try to show the league how smart he is. Taking JFF w Carr, Jimmy G and Bridgewater on the board?

I don't even feel like posting the stats for week 3. They're terrible. Pretty much all of his picks have done nothing, whether on the field or off.

Just fire the bum and his pal Kuharich. It may free up the coaching a bit. Dont have much faith in them either, but if they keep both it will only lead to a house cleaning because they clearly don't work together. The textgate finger-pointing should have been enough. It was another Browns mistake, just like keeping Mangini or Shurmur for another season.

I saw Nate Orchard with one good bull rush yday. Almost pushed his defender right into Carr, but that was IT.

Danny can take up two defenders, constantly and consistently, but he does nothing really when that happens. No push, no lateral movements, not much of anything else.

On a team that's having the ball thrown at will on us, I don't think our #1 drafted corner even played a snap at corner. Pretty sure I saw #21 Gilbert dressed.

3 games into his career and I already feel he's the most overrated bum on the Browns. Double teams? Re-watch the first play on that pathetic 2min TD drive right before the half. Shelton was moved out by ONE OL and Murray got 20yds. If Murray runs for 2-5yds there, the Raiders probably let the clock run down, because they only had one TO left and would rather not give the Browns an opportunity to get the ball back before the half.
Shelton is not a good NT. He offers zero pass rushing and is inconsistent at best (and complete useless at worst) vs the run. Another Farmer 1st round bust

Shelton has left a lot to be desired (as has Gilbert, Manziel, Weeden, Richardson, Mingo, Taylor, etc, etc, all the way back to when I was born).

I won't label him a bust after 3 games, but Dustin Fox says he believes he's WAY too out of shape and the NFL game appears to be too fast/strong for him right now

The following is a quote from a 2013 post I made when Farmer was hired.


"If any of you watched the Chiefs Hardknocks episodes, Farmer was the personell guy.

I found him very unimpressive."

I received some backlash for it. I tried to explain that I believed I got a good insight into what we were getting and ... I can't believe he is the one who is going to help lead a turn around that will end up with a Super Bowl.

Who he is came off clearly in that year's episodes.

Looks like he is who we easily could have known he is.

The bottom line is...

Do we give him another draft? (for the sake of continuity, blah, blah....)

I have seen some, in other threads, compare our success to the Raiders. I thought I would look into that a little bit.

The first thing I noticed is that through his first two drafts, Farmer was set up with many more assets. Reggie McKenzie, the Raiders GM since 2012, didn't even have a first round pick in his first draft. I also know that Al Davis left the Raiders with one of the worst cap situations in the league. McKenzie had to deal with tons of dead money on the cap for multiple years.

Through two drafts McKenzie did not do anything particularly noteworthy. He drafted some quality players, but no one great (Latavius Murray, Sio Moore, Mychal Rivera, etc). He basically got nothing from his 2012 draft (this draft reminded me of the Beau Bell draft).

I don't know the Raiders well enough to say he whiffed on D.J. Hayden (the first round pick in 2013), but Hayden has started only 13 games through 2015. Probably not what you would want out of your first round corner. In the second round he picked Menelik Watson, who never started a full season and is now out with a torn Achilles.

In 2012 and 2013 the Raiders basically got a bunch of spare parts.

Before the 2012 season McKenzie hired a head coach (Dennis Allen). Allen was fired four games the 2014 season.

After two seasons McKenzie had cut a bunch of expensive veterans and had drafted no big time game changers. He also signed a bunch of cheaper veterans and traded for Matt Flynn. I imagine that if McKenzie were the GM of a team in Cleveland people would be, at the very least, skeptical of the job he had done. Some might even call for him to be fired.

In 2014 McKenzie selected Khalil Mack, Derek Carr, and Gabe Jackson with his first three picks. The team went 3-13. The Raiders had won eleven games in three years. My guess is that people wanted him fired. McKenzie was not fired. He was allowed to hire a new head coach (Jack del Rio). In 2015 he drafted Amari Cooper. The Raiders now look to be set up pretty good for the future.

I don't know if McKenzie is a good GM. I know he is lucky. Looking back, Mack fell to him when he probably shouldn't have. And a number of QB needy teams passed on Derek Carr. Those players fell into his lap and he just made the obvious choice. Same goes for Cooper. The Raiders were bad enough where they were able to draft elite level talent.

All of this is something to consider when questioning Farmer. I think it was the right decision to draft a corner and quarterback with the picks Farmer did in the 2014 draft. He just picked the wrong players. Is that bad luck?

I think the draft has a lot to do with luck. Young people are drafted and are put in positions they've never been in before, it is very hard to predict how a person will react in those situations. There are ways to minimize risk, but then you might end up drafting less talented players (see: Mangini; Eric).

I don't know what the real point of this post is other than to examine a team that went through something very similar to us in the recent past and how they came out of on the other side looking golden.

Maybe, I have touted Reggie MacKenzies recent success in the draft at building the Raiders... he started there in 2012 and his first couple drafts were not inspiring at all... in his 3rd and 4th drafts he hit some home runs... he has also had more recent success in FA... so there is an argument to be made for giving Farmer a little more time, there is also an argument for sending him on his way...

You went into much greater detail than I did.. I can't get behind the "luck" theory.. some teams seem to draft well year in and year out with more hits than misses, others don't. I'm sure if Farmer had drafted 3 or 4 superstars, he wouldn't be asking for more money because he's lucky, he would be asking for more money because people would think he was a genius.

I don't see any teams that hit on their first round pick every year. When I say luck I mean things that a person cannot control (situation, players reaction to now being rich, injury, etc.).

Really good post.

Fullback: Malcolm Johnson, Browns (-2.6)

Our first repeat player for Worst Team of the Week! Johnson was blown up multiple times in the point of attack, and allowed a sack. It hasn’t been a good few weeks for Johnson.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/28/worst-players-at-every-position-for-week-3/

Good to know that we still have the worst FB in the league. Even wasted a pick on this bum. The inability to find a decent FB is almost getting comical. A decade with lousy FB play? From Marecic to the Obi experiment to Askew/Small...I mean, not even a freaking fullback?

14 and 15 drafts were much stronger than 13 and probably 12, go through the names and you'll see that it was tough to come up with two busts in round one in 2014

He most certainly has gotten blown backwards. IMO, better off starting Bibbs and assume the blocking will likely be the same/equal, but at least you have some who can catch and make people miss and get some yards.

That is an extremely harsh post, Dj. I saw one play (and I'm guessing more) that he had 3 guys (OC and both OG's) on him. Way too early to call him a bust...wow!

I'm pretty sure Pettine praised Johnson in his presser today.

Posts like this, particularly the bolded statement, just make you look petty and remove your credibility. In what reality is any draft pick judged after one season let alone three games?

Obviously in your reality this what you do. It is not something that is realistic over productive.

Malcolm Johnson played like crap to my eyes yesterday. Was he talking about Duke?

nope... he specifically mentioned Malcolm as the first offensive guy he is happy with >_<.

4 more years!

I think Farmer is already a goner. His drafting has just been completely pathetic to say the least. Drafting a completely worthless piece of garbage like Gilbert should spell the end of him alone.

I don't fault Farmer for having a bust or 2. Even the best have them. It's completely ignoring one of the most critical positions in modern football consecutive years when there was a ton of talent there. On a team that is dead last as a group at that position in the NFL. That's freaking beyond mind boggling! Why? It defies all logic.

If we do end up with the number 1 overall pick next year which i give us pretty damn good odds, would any one of you want Farmer making that pick? Be honest. Doesn't sound like he's instilling a lot of confidence even in the best of the homers.

This reminds me, does anyone else find it hilarious that a GM who can't draft tailor made a strategy of team building that discards free agents because they could get in the way of our compensatory picks? For the record since 2007 only 3 compensatory picks have become pro-bowlers... How did this man become a GM?

Continuity. For real.

I think part of the Raiders success has to include bringing in free agents like Crabtree, Tuck, and Smith.

Think about it.....he drafts Mack, and then in brings in two other guys that have had success rushing the passer in Smith and Tuck.

He drafts Cooper and brings in a guy w/great hands in Crabtree.

That seems like a plan.

in other words the Raiders brought in players that compliment each others skills.
I've said all along the Browns coaches, the x and o's and the players they brought in don't mesh with each other.
Shanahans zone blocking scheme was perfect for the Browns o-line.
its a finese agile o-line.
Road graders they are not.
how the Farmer lovers can defend him now is beyond me.

Yes, it appears that the Raiders brought in free agents to compliment their draft choices.......and I didn't even mention Carr. Having two good WRs sure has helped him. He was Captain Checkdown last year. He is now slinging it down the field.

Yes, Shanny's ZBS was perfect for our OL. Our guys are more finesse. Smarter. Good technique. Agile. Not so powerful. But, we would rather sing Kum-ba-yah in the locker room and have a dumb ass like Farmer telling a genius like Shanny calling the plays.

I pretty much agree except for the bolded part. Thomas and Mack are good enough to play in either system. A zone is definitely a better fit for Bitonio. Greco and Schwartz more road grader types, but seem to fine at zone blocking. I wouldn't exactly call them nimble finesse blockers though.

The Raiders basically signed veterans off the scrap heap.

We did the same, except we gave them real money.

I disagree w/your take. There is no doubt that Greco and Schwartz are better suited to ZBS.

Are you saying that Smith, Tuck, and Crabtree are not contributing? Really?

Who said that?

The Raiders signed veteran guys that no one else wanted for cheap and they are playing well. Good for them.

You can disagree, that's fine. But both guys are big lumbering types with slower lateral movement. I think they are doing fine in a ZBS, but saying they better fit this system is a stretch.

The combination of all but one of us hating Banner and Atlanta trying to hire him had us thinking Farmer was the second coming.

I've seen enough. I'm all for giving Pet more time but I think Farmer is garbage.

If the GM goes, the coach has to go too. Those guys need to be able to work together.

That most often is the way it goes.

Well let's fire up the latest 'hot candidates' thread.

Friggin' rudderless ship . . .

The only way Farmer is here next year is if Haslam says we want continuity in our FO because there is no way he has earned his position or done anything to keep it... I was watching MNF last night and did anyone else see the stat they gave for the Packers? There are only 3 players on their team that played on a different team last year and out of their 53 man roster it was something like 38 of them have been drafted by the Packers... Are you kidding me that is insane! Or at least it is like a fantasy considering all of the turnover here in Cleveland. Do you think fans in Green Bay, Seattle, NE, etc. realize how great they have it?

That's because most of you start evaluating a player the moment he steps into the NFL. When I've seen a prospec extensively in college (like Shelton) and the early performance in the NFL reaffirms my take, then my leash is considerably shorter, yes.
Go to the archives, I've called out Shelton as being very "meh" and gave reasons for it well before he put on a Browns jersey and even before he was picked by Farmer. He never was a first or second round talent for me. He simply is who I thought he'd be and that's what disappoints me.

you said before cam newton was gonna be a bust.


and you also been wrong on a ton of other players. weren't you also in the weeden cheerleading section?

And I've been spot on a lot too, which is probably the reason you remember better than me what I thought about Newton out of college, lol. Don't remember having that strong an opinion on him, but yeah, I didn't like him and still don't. His career comp% is under 60 and his yds/PA has gone from 7.1 to 7.0 to 6.9 the past 3 years...underwhelming

It's just my opinion on Shelton, feel free to ignore it.