DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Oakland 27 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

We drafted a backup offensive linemen in the first round instead of addressing the gaping hole at wide receiver. Idiotic.

OK, but where do you go from there? Do you have a quality candidate ready to step in immediately? And please don't say the (underwhelming) Bill Kuharich...

Rish, I didn't play sides with my post, just saying what I think is happening in the locker. If you read most of my posts, you probably picked up by now that I don't have a lot of nice things to say about anyone. It's not all one man's fault, there are different responsibilities at every level. Manziel, for me, has always been a "symptom", from the moment he was picked. I knew deep down that we were run by idiots then and there and those symptoms spread in the form of bad picks and FA decisions.

There's no easy solution, especially if you happen to think that Haslam is the biggest problem in Berea. Being right or wrong about Manziel is irrelevant. Play him or not, I really couldn't care less. The only reason I'd play Manziel is for the rest of you to see the bigger issues.

You say "move on", but what if the divide is so strong that it's hard to do so? Would you live with your ex in the same house for another year and just "move on"? It's easier said than done. If Manziel has burnt all the bridges with the guys, who are the fans to demand "move on"? It's always easier to say stuff like this from the outside, same goes for Farmer and Haslam. We just dont know WHAT exactly has turned them off. I just gave my opinion, mere hypotheticals, on that and collected the bits we DO know.

I'm not "pro vets" or "pro Manziel", there's good, but mostly bad with both, that's my opinion, but there's an apparent divide at least between Pettine and Manziel. So what now? Fire everyone but Manziel? Keep all, as you seem to prefer, and "force" them to pretend everything is all smiles? You know how I feel. If I had to keep one of Farmer, Pettine or Manziel, I'd keep Pettine, but would prefer to start from scratch again. Nobody wants it, but it's necessary anyway. Starters are old, the high picks are trash or average. We aren't looking at many keepers anyway.

The Browns were most talented before the 2012 draft, that's when the downward spiral started....TRich, Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert, Manziel, Shelton, Erving.

Blow it up, and the best outcome is that Haslam realizes to stay completely out of any football related stuff, spends millions on a "name" GM, who picks his own HC. That's the best shot I can come up with under the circumstances

Yeah, and he only comes in on what few jumbo packages as an eligible receiver.. Let me tell you about those contributions paying off though



Where we would go likely can't be any worse than where we are now and currently heading, so does it make a big deal?

Bbbbb

If Diehard's thought about Manziel is correct, and I believe it is, then yes, it is Manziel's fault we are in this bind. IMO, the staff had a plan for this team in 2014. Manziel threw a monkey wrench into them with his childish antics and lack of preparedness for the NFL. Regardless of whose decision it was to bring him on board, he is here.

Now, we are a year behind in the plan, the vets are a year older and tired of playing for a loser and with losers, the morale must be in question and with the exception of our kickers, every unit stinks!

We are in trouble here. Is it too early to begin draft discussion? Not that it really matters with the inability to effectively evaluate talent on this team.

Gonna be a looooooong season!

I can't even think about how much we've wasted in the first round.

Mingo?! The dude is one of the worst players I've seen in all phases (now add STs to it)
Richardson?! Maybe the biggest RB bust of all time
Weeden?! .. I think we ALL knew he'd suck from the moment we drafted him. Just an awful, awful pick.
Gilbert?! ... PUH-LEASE
Manziel?! ... Not with Carr/Bridgewater on the board ... not to mention he was in rehab
Shelton?! ... Early returns are NOT good right now.
Erving?! .. a backup Guard who is an "eligible" receiver LMAO. You can't even make this up.

Not to mention how much talent we've passed up to pick these clowns.
We somehow managed to take ALL OF THOSE picks ... and make ourselves worse


Lol okay guys

end rant

I'm sure most have been discussed so I'll keep it to a few..

The good -
Barnidge played well
Des Bryant played well
Andy Lee is our best and most consistent player... the punter.
The fact that we did comeback and make it interesting

The bad -
Run defense did well in the first half, then collapsed.
Offense sucked in the first half, then found some life
McCown's numbers will look ok but he missed on a number of deep balls that were there for the taking and his lack of mobility cost us.
Haden looked bad, I've defended the dude and still think he'll come around but he is not having a good year.
Run blocking, or lack thereof. Still think on 3rd and goal from the one there was a decent crease to the left of Crow and he just didn't see it, should have scored.
Pass rush, I ask this seriously, did we knock Carr down at all? Even one time? I'm not sure we did. He's good, no doubt, but we let him stand on his spot untouched and pick us apart.

The ugly -
Plays that lose games.. roughing the punter that they could have called on any of 4 people... dropped punts... missed tackles... over/under thrown balls...

I remember reading how Bernie Kosar lobbied hard for Bill Belichick to be the new Browns' HC in '99. (He was an assistant to Parcells then.) Kosar said that Al Lerner and Carmen Policy laughed at him and then ridiculed him when he persisted. Now I believe, like you, that Haslam has to find someone to run his franchise. You might have to give them a piece of the franchise (10% ?) to get the kind of guy we need, as well as a large salary. It could be Belichick, or a Kevin Colbert, a John Schneider, a Ted Thompson - it just needs to be someone with a proven track record as a GM (unlike Holmgren). Use back channels, front channels, or side channels - just get it done, because our current paradigm of hiring the coach before the GM is not working. I recall when Butch Davis was here and we brought in Ron Wolf to "consult". I think we actually had a solution at hand back then, but we failed to give Wolf authority (ie, the GM or President title) to overrule Butch. Butch and his buttboy, Garcia, subsequently ran Ron Wolf out of town.

Des was inactive. Do you mean Armonty?

I wasn't as quick to hang up the phone on Mingo, but seriously there's just nothing he can do well or be relied on to do outside of pass coverage. Can rely on him to get hurt.

Makes a grown man just want to freaking cry like sissy girl.

The fact of the matter is that ALL successful people know this: What they DON'T know. Haslam needs to find someone who KNOWS football in terms of talent evaluation for the front office. Someone needs to run this organization day to day. Someone needs to be able to evaluate and hire a proven, successful GM. I want a GM who will work WITH a coach with the understanding that the coach needs players to run his systems. You can't have a GM and a coach at odds...how can this possibly work? I'm not sure how the scouting department is built or how good the Browns scouts are, but I would guess that needs help too.

It really is sad to continuously see how much talent has been passed on for the stiffs that populate rosters year after year for the Browns. I'm not even sure how it is mathematically possible to be this consistently bad year after year. Mind boggling.

we need to get more first time coaches. first time gm`s. first time coordinators.

My bad.

Anybody with any experience doesn't want to come here.

I'll do it for a fraction of what they are probably paying Farmer.

And I'll constantly use Dawgtalkers.net for references and scouting.

Signed,

D. E. Bacle

If we blow it up, I say we really blow it up. I mean let's do this right. I would blow it up until there were just ashes left. I would trade Thomas and Haden, who I believe are both part of the problem. Apparently, after week 1, Thomas made an impassioned plea to the team about playing better. He then proceeded to take his vet day off the next day in practice. Great leadership Thomas. Get picks for those guys. They should be pretty high.

This would really work well if we got the first pick in next year's draft. Then for sure I would blow it up until it wasn't even recognizable. You should get a 1st for Thomas and at least a 2nd for Haden, unless he continues to trend downward this year. Stockpile picks.

If Haslam is going to fire these guys, then let's do it right. Let's go all the way with it. I would hire a football president first, who hires a GM second, who hires a head coach third. Let's do this right.

But it can't be no halfway blow up. Blow it up and blow it up big.

After watching the product on the field the first three games, a huge blow up won't set the team back. Heck, it might even improve it.

Shelton is doing exactly what we drafted him to do. Eat up blockers. His performance is fine. Whether or not a player with Shelton's skill set should be drafted where we drafted him is the real question.

Then that's on the FO/Coaching staff for being stupid and drafting a guy that's not a scheme fit and/or of importance or value.

However, I did see him get pushed to the side by one blocker on a few occasions.

If he's taking 2 linemen shouldn't the linebackers be making more tackles?

They have to be able to tackle for this to happen.

I agree. Hopefully he develops into more than just a space eater. If he doesn't then he isn't/will not be worth his draft position.

As far as Shelton getting moved around. He is still a rookie and that happens to the best players in the league from time to time. (Literally: http://lsu.247sports.com/Bolt/Watch-Trai-Turner-pancake-JJ-Watt-39641501)

That may be why the dbs are whiffin' on tackles. They're sick of having to do it all the time.

This team needs a dominate qb and a dominate inside lb.

Then they may start representing Cleveland better.

This man should be our next GM! How come no one else has thought of this?

2 plays and it is possible we are not discussing this sucktitude.

The "Running into the kicker" and TBs punt fumble.

it can not be stated how HUGE these 2 total screw up may have changed that game.


not saying the team played well, but these 2 plays had a HUGE affect on the overall flow of the game.

Yea, I kind of believe that the McCown we saw today is more or less... McCown. The problem is that his completion % of 57% does not accurately reflect the missed opportunities.. I've seen posted on here, and I don't remember exactly, anywhere from 3 to 5 deep balls that would have been huge plays, resulted in scores, etc.. and he just missed them...

The Browns have 2 road games at San Diego and at Baltimore for McCown to get it fixed... Bolts are 1-2, Ravens are 0-3 but neither is a "bad" team... If McCown doesn't look a lot better, the booing and chanting will begin with the national anthem if he is still starting when they get back to Cleveland to play the Broncos, who might be the best defense we've seen yet.

So, after 1 full season and 3 games you know we have it wrong?

Wow. That doesn't give a new hire much time, does it.

Dez Bryant did not play ..

I meant Armonty Bryant, that was already pointed out to me... 15 yards for piling on.

My bad , Try not to read to many post today , to negative !

Thank you!

Oh wait, that was sarcasm wasn't it.

More Bad:

Now that's a constructive comment and worthy of further discussion. I'm certain you can bring more than that...

I watched two local Browns shows yesterday. One a pre-game show and the other at 11pm tied to the news/sports program. Both on the same channel.

Both shows had Bernie as one of the guests. The late show also had Coach Sam.

From Bernie and Sam's comments I took away these points...


* It's not the players fault. It's not the fault of the coaching. The problem is above that in the FO.

* We don't have the talent we like to think we do.

* What's missing is 'team chemistry'. No team gets long enough to develop team chemistry before being blown-up. Seven OCs in 8 years along with all the roster changes doesn't allow for chemistry. Same for the defense.

Pathetic. I count 10 too.