DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pet on the QB Situation

So tired of off-the-record, unattributed quotes. If an athlete is willing to say something to the media, be man enough to own it.

I can't speak for everybody who has used the mantra "see what we've got" in Johnny.

I will tell you from my perspective, I think Johnny gives us the best chance to win... TODAY. Is part of my motivation to see how he can look in an extended period of starting so we know how desperate our QB situation is for next year? Absolutely... but if I thought starting McCown was worth 2 or 3 more wins this year, then I would want to start him... but I don't think he is.

It's only been 1 game for McCown and 2 for Manziel... but McCown looked like he has looked for the majority of his career. In fact his numbers from Sunday are almost dead on his career stats.. dude, it doesn't get much better than that. He might have a good game here or there but what we saw Sunday, that IS Josh McCown. There is no learning curve... Yea, he threw for a bunch of yards on Sunday.. 160 of those yards were in the 4th quarter after we got behind by 3 scores... when Weeden use to do that, we called them garbage stats.. yea, he got us close to a tie, then his 4th underthrown deep ball of the game put it out of reach..

Manziel has a much more limited sample, he looked awful last year and now the whole world is realizing just how unprepared he was and I think it was far worse than any of us even expected... but this year he has looked night and day different. We have rushed the ball for over 100 yards in both games Manziel played, under 40 in the game McCown played. With 20 fewer attempts, Manziel still has more completions over 20 yards...

I just think Manziel is the smarter play both for winning now and answering the question about the future...

McCown has 2 road games to get it figured out before he has to take the field again in front of the Cleveland crowd.... if he puts a couple more first halves where he musters up a 70 QB rating and scores 3 points and puts us in a hole, it will not be pretty when he comes back to Cleveland... and we better win at least 1 of them.

And nobody is saying this team doesn't have other issues or that it's all McCowns fault, but there is no other change we can make that has a chance of having the same impact.

%1000 - Doing Math Like a Brown

Amen.

It appears so during his presser... and the effoert kind of backs it up..

I really hope Pet doesn't lose the locker room... I use to think how Cleveland ruined QB'a.. I'm starting to feel they are ruining HC's also..

If JM would have just came in last year giving a damn like he did this year... a lot of this decision making may be easier..

I honestly can't blame Pet... He's doing what he believes is best for the team... The whole situation around here is based on Doubt & trust.

Doubt: Most of us feel McCown is nothing more than what we already see and know..And doubt he's going to be exciting and a winner... A year away from selling insurance..

I honestly think if McCown played well and got us into a one play-off game then done situation.. That means..would we have to see him again next year ? Probably... In a Starting role ? or another QB competition ?

I know I sure don't want to see this happen.. I trust it won't.

Trust: How many of us honestly believe if JM starts we will see more wins ? We would love to have that happen.. Now JM becomes a winner... Then what happens to the 2016 draft ? Do we pass on a QB because we saw JM make improvements...

Does Pet doubt his boy McCown ? Does he trust JM ? Pet Knows finding a QB is his only life support... His options weren't all that great..

It's time to trust JM and see what we have in him...Lets see how the "O" reacts.. This is where doubt comes in.. Pet doubts JM can be the man... That's why he plays McCown...

Pets in a bad situation... I trust he will eventually make the right call.. I doubt in time .

Coaches who start journeyman back-up QBs usually don't last long in the NFL... McCown is no Rich Gannon.

You're right, McCown is a known quantity, which is why I think they are sticking with him. We have a rookie OC trying to install a new, unproven offense. My feeling that installation of this offense is priority over "Seeing what we have".

This isn't to say that installation of the offense and developing Manziel are mutually exclusive. But I think there needs to be more to justify their compatibility.

How well can you install an offense if the QB puts the ball on the ground at least twice a game? That's an unsettling trend, and I'd rather Johnny clean that up before he hits the field again. They didn't harm us too bad in the Titans game, but IMO that's ONLY because we recovered the ball instead of them.

Plus, the other unknown for us as fans is, does he have a grasp of enough of the playbook? In the end that's for the coaches to evaluate and decide, but I think its relevant.

Honestly, if we had an established OC with a proven scheme, I'd probably feel different about the situation.

Regardless of how well (or average) McCown plays over the next couple games, if we drop to 1-4, I think Pet is going to seriously have to consider a switch.

Basically, if he hasn't EARNED the job, he shouldn't have the job.

Fan curiosity should NEVER be a consideration - for anything. Ever.




Besides... unless Manziel is suiting up and taking Whitner & Haden's positions, I don't see how it will matter. Can Johnny stop the run?

Fix THAT. Maybe figure out how to stop the opponent from going 80 yards and scoring at will and then MAYBE we'll have something worth talking about.

Well makes you wonder what he has to do to EARN the job. And it's not curiosity, it would have been curiosity to start him week 1... now I've seen Manziel play 2 games, I've seen McCown play 1 game (and over the course of a dozen years) and based on that limited sample, I think Manziel gives us a better chance to win.


That's an absolutely silly argument. Maybe we should sit Bryant because he can't complete a 3rd down pass, therefore he is doing us no good. You improve whatever position, whatever unit, you can, whenever you can... totally independent of what anybody else on the field is doing.

Of course it's a silly argument, because Manziel probably can't tackle any better than Whitner.

That aside, I think you missed my point, which was the defense screwed the pooch early and often in that game.

True, the offense didn't help at all, either, but in the end it came VERY close to scoring enough even with a buttload of miscues. The defense pretty much never did anything all day to make up for its miscues. It just sat back and had everything dictated to them.

I'm betting there are few teams with better QB's then McCown at the helm that are willing to trade straight up for Manziel.

They definitely own the fact that 5 of the Raiders first 7 possessions went for more than 70 yards and scores.. all on them.

By the same token, our offense couldn't stay on the field. Of our first 6 possessions, we had the one nice FG drive.. the average of the other 5 possessions was 3.6 plays for 8.12 yards... and I think we had 1 first down.

From that point on, we were very far behind and things seemed to change (as they often do when you are 3 scores down) but alas, we ran out of time in our comeback.. But as for how we ended up down 27-10 going into the 4th quarter, both sides played their part.

Johnny 1-0. McCown 0-2.

Let's give the ball to the guy who sucks and loses! wOOt!

Fixed that for you. That one win against the Titans proves it. JFF is the next Otto Graham!

And Josh McCown is the next, well, Josh McCown!

To be honest, if we're being fair Manziel 1-0 McCown 0-1, you can't hold that first game against him when he got zero reps and had been idle with injury for awhile...Once he got the reps, against a much better defense then Oakland he got a win.

How about this one?

McCown - definitely terrible
Manziel - probably terrible, but at least we don't know

Can't wash one hand without the other...this "comeback" you refer to was also setup by the defense getting stops and forcing a turnover. All 3 facets had a big play into why it was so horrible. No unit did their job well

I think this pretty much /end thread

bottom line is we have someone we know sucks, and one that we really don't have a clue because we have such a small sample

Yeah you can. It's his job as the backup to be ready.
There are no asterisks in the record.

thats just absurd and I think we see you're def. a McCown apologist. Some people just refuse to see the situation right in front of their face

lol! Apologist?
You're funny.

I'm of the opinion that Manziel will get the job at some point in the season, as of now, I'd rather that sooner than later..

I am also of the opinion that after he gets the job, he keeps it.. Until at least the end of NEXT season..

Keep the playbook and schemes in tact, give Johnny an entire offseason as the starter and training camps with the first team etc..

You won't know what you have in a player or coaches after two seasons.. Getting rid of anyone after this year is just stupid..

to elaborate, yes the record is the record, but to judge how someone is going to progress moving forward based on a game they were thrown in with no reps, missing weeks of practice and say oh, its the backups job...yeah..true, but usually the backups never come in and win in that scenario, especially that early in a game. The worst possible scenario for Manziel to enter was that jets game.. So no, I don't hold the performance against him. I'm willing to give him a pass on that game. What he does moving forward is how he will be judged by me.

I guess that makes you delusional?

I think everyone agrees at some point will will see Manziel, either by McCown being McCown, or they just decided we have nothing left to play for, which I think is the worst scenario. We all probably want to see him while we are healthy and still have something to play for.

Or how about this one.

McCown went 28/49 for 341 yds 2 TD's and 1 Int last week.

Neither QB is terrible and Neither QB is that good right now.
We are 3 games into the season and can't run or stop the run and that is going to make it tough for any QB.
Everyone is over-reacting like we do every freakin season.
JFF still can't make all the reads, has poor footwork and a poor throwing motion and you will ruin him if you put him in before those things are corrected just like the other rookies we have thrown into the fire.

I think the FO and coaching staff wants Manziel in, but with his offseason, they didn't want him starting the first 6-8 weeks unless Josh was injured.

We'll see how Josh performs this week. Until then, it's his job to lose.

No, I'm the sane one here.
I don't care which one starts, as they are both sub-par (at best), as long as they actually earn the position.

You, however, are another of those that act like a typical fan-boy, blowing the trumpet of whichever player that gets your blood going. You see the latest, flashy thing that offers barely the slimmest bit of promise and you get tunnel vision and blow up their performance in your mind to be something greater than it was and feel that it is some great panacea that will cure all our ills. Yet, you completely ignore the 80% of that performance that sucked or was just plain ineffective. You ignore the part where the game plan was taken out of his control to keep him from screwing it up. You ignore the part where he STILL put the ball on the ground ... TWICE. In only 15 dropbacks. For the 2nd week in a row.

I don't care one bit if Manziel starts, but holy crap, he has GOT to show more than he has so far. Two passes to Benji is not enough to earn the spot, not when he has so many other negative plays in there.

No one is overreacting. This is the same thing I've (and others) have been saying about McCown the entire off-season.

He has been in the league since 2002. He has never been consistently good.

You're right, but McCown started that game, so he is 0-2

Works for me.

It worked for Hoyer in the Bengals game he got injured!

Bills.

DOH!

TNF. Hoyer got hit sliding.. He didn't get up..

They showed Weeded throwing on the sidelines.

Expletives were yelled throughout the USO that morning..

I remember just a brain fart, wasn't is Kiko Alonso that took him out?

Let's not start this again. . .

28/49 for 341 yds 2 TD's and 1 Int is good. It's plenty good enough to win football games. It is better than what you are looking for when your game plan is to run and stop the run.

I hope BTTB doesn't see this, it could get ugly.