DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Pettine: There's no rift in Browns' locker room

Both had a history of playing well.

Does Josh McCown have that same history?

This is EXACTLY what Jimmy needs to do if this thing is EVER going to get turned around. He can be the man but defer to the brains when it comes to FOOTBALL...of which he knows nothing about. He's the money man. That's it.

sarcasm - noun - the use of irony to mock or convey contempt

I believe you are mistaken about the different jobs of different people.

The medias job is to cause controversies, sell papers, magazines and get clicks on their sites.

The fans job is to complain when the team stinks it up because that's their passion and money being spent for entertainment.

The coach and FO have the job to do what's best for the team. The media and fan base going gaga over starting Manziel, has nothing to do with trading Manziel.

Unless you have a great QB and a winning team, there will always be some division over who should start. This isn't some new thing here. It in no way should impact the decision of the coaching staff or FO in regards to trading a player.

I have little doubt of the quotes TMZ published. When after the fact they were asked, they stand behind those quotes. The difference is I don't see the big deal. I think it's perfectly normal for some players to have a difference of opinion on who starts when neither QB has established themselves as being effective and has a pattern of winning.

I honestly believe if TMZ was making it up, there would be a lot more damning things published than the quotes they served up.

It's actually a good sign that some players want Manziel.

There's no QB there, either, coach.

I was gonna say...there's not much else in the locker room either. LOL

Even if Johnny doesn't see the field again this season, how does this mean that the Browns still don't have the answer to the question? That's what the plan was/is, isn't it?

It certainly means that WE as fans won't have the answer, but what we know and don't know isn't relevant.

sure they have the answer. thats why they are starting mccown.

So? That's not the point.

If McCown is getting the the job done why waste Manziel's talent here sitting on the bench. He's worth more in trade and we get rid of a polarizing player that only some players on the team want to play football with. I'm sure we can get a better QB then McCown for a Manziel trade. Trade him or play him.

McCown is 200 years old.

Wise is not a proven skill set set in the Brown's FO.

So, someone with a better QB than McCown is going to trade that QB to us for Manziel?

I don't think this works the way you think this works.

So trade our young backup because our old starter has played a few good games (event though history would show that he is terrible)?

We should do this because the player is polarizing.

Are you trolling?

Don't know if you bothered to notice, but Manziel hasn't been very polarizing this year.. Or I should say he's done nothing to make him polarizing. It's media and fans that are making a deal out of it.

Your entire premise is entertaining.


You basically say there that the coaches who see him every day in practice, and are still not seeing enough to start him and don't feel he is good enough to be our best chance at winning now need to see more of him to know what we have... .because seeing him every day clearly isn't enough for them to know what we have. He isn't good enough to be our best chance to win now, yet he somehow needs to get on the field so we know this for real or not?

It seems kinda ludicrous to me. I don't think the coaches need to see any such thing; I think this is just logic trotted out by fans who aren't getting to see it for themselves.

Oh no. . . what if Manziel is Tebow 2.0? How come I never thought of this?

Or maybe the coaches have seen enough and are confident he can become what they want, but don't want to risk a backslide in his development due to under performing team at this time, and want to see if they can correct other areas in the next few weeks before putting him out there.

There are so many possibilities, and very few we are privy to.

Yes, that's exactly what we are saying. You are correct in that I haven't seen them in practice. Based on this year alone, I've seen what everybody else has seen, 2 games from Manziel and 1 from McCown.. and just based on what I've seen, I do not see how McCown gives us any better chance to win. I don't know what they see in practice to lead them to make their decision or if they have some other motive for doing what they are doing.

It's kind of funny how we bash the FO and the coaches up one side and down the other, then when it comes to this.. we have to trust the coaches.

Personally I see no need to trade him, I think that idea is a bit far out too.

If Manziel starting right away is supposed to be the plan a)why didn't/hasn't he, and b) why wasn't he drafted earlier in place of Gilbert?



And to piggyback a little on what Purple just said... wouldn't it stand to reason that the coaches have certain benchmarks they want to see him meet BEFORE he takes the field?

With all due respect, I'm not sure your "sample size" argument carries much weight because based on your premise, if your 1st Rd QB is supposed to start right away, that means you are starting him with zero NFL playing time and a few months of preseason workouts, essentially no sample size.

The biggest unknown in this whole debate is what Johnny looks like during the week. How much of the playbook does he grasp on for example? 80%? 50%? 20%? If he's still far enough behind in that department (I'm not saying he is, I don't know)... is the guy being set up for success when you put him out there?

I'm not saying he hasn't looked good in limited action, I think he has. But the key word is "limited". We don't know just how much he actually brings to the field in terms of command of the offense.

It's not just practice. It's the meeting rooms. What if they know that Manziel only knows 30% of the playbook? There is no way of us knowing that (other than him only having 15 pass attempts in his one start).

Well, he HAS turned the ball over less... if we don't jump on both of his fumbles in the Titans game, I'm not convinced we walk out of there with a W. If that happened, would Johnny still look as good to you as he does now?

Nope..

But on the other hand, if Andrew luck was in his first year, I'd be calling him a bust this year. Based on his current performance.

comp % Yrds TD INT Rating
56.0 753 5 7 65.1

Well, that's exactly what it boils down to, isn't it?
The people saying "they need to see Johnny to know what he has" are REALLY saying "I need to see Johnny to know what he has" because they simply don't or won't trust that someone else has already seen it and knows better than them.


I keep it simple for myself (despite blowing up after the last game and saying what I did in that they may as well start him from here on out):

If Johnny can't/isn't doing whatever he needs to do Monday through Saturday to outright TAKE the job from McCown, then what does it really matter?

McCown isn't all that - we all know this. And if Manziel can't outright take the job from someone who isn't all that, WHY, OH WHY, does anyone want to rush him onto the field? Doesn't this giant warning flag of logic pop up in anyone else's head?? To me, it means that either in the meeting rooms, or on the practice field, or perhaps still in his maturity level... something, somewhere is still lacking.

Personally, I think we've already gotten to see what in both the Jets & Titans games - the fumbles, the stalled offense. Take your eyes off the sexy bombs to Benji for a moment and look at the rest of the body of work - it is wholly unimpressive. Epically unimpressive, actually.

So, I'm not worried about it, and I don't think there's any hurry. McCown is the sacrificial lamb that will keep the seat warm while Manziel learns and progresses. He's made a ton of progress since his starts last season, and if he can make that same leap again by game 8 or 10, then he stands a real shot of taking over. If not, we go into the offseason knowing that he isn't enough of a QB to even unseat McCown and we know that we need someone else.

It answers itself.

I don't trust anyone

Me either!

There may not be a rift in the locker room as of yet, but keep startin' McCown and keep losing, then let's see what develops.

IMO, the Browns NEED to see what Manziel has to offer at some point THIS season. I'm guessing it has to do with A) his grasp of the playbook and B) where the Browns are in the playoff race. I'm hoping Manziel can at least practice and play with the first team for at least 8 games. I don't think it wise to go into 2016 with an unknown Davis, unknown Manziel and whoever they draft (again). Of course, there are so many holes on this roster AND the coordinators are still learning themselves that it will be another 2-3 years before the Browns are playoff contenders. I'm not sure Jimmy will remain that patient. I do not wish to see what Ray Farmer offers going forward in terms of talent evaluation.

Of course the fans are energized by Johnny and want to see him play. And don't say they have no say...LOTS of empty seats says A LOT to said owner. The only vote the fans have is with their wallets. But that is a pretty strong vote to have.

We could play "what if" all afternoon... they aren't starting him, they have their reasons... I hope they are right.

Well, I'd rather have wholly unimpressive, with the occasional long touchdown bomb..... than wholly unimpressive, without the occasional long touchdown bomb....

I don't know..... just like if McCown had thrown JUST ONE nice deep ball out of the 5 he had open last Sunday, we might have beaten the Raiders and that might have swayed my opinion as well.

Unfortunately I am back to square one .. I don't trust the Organization itself .. Dang shame ..

And how is suppose to take the job when the coach's support Mccoun. And they say they have a plan in place for JFF. The only way he gets to in is injury. Jmo

You answered your own question.

They have a plan for JFF. <<<---- that's the answer.



When Manziel gives the coach reason to support him, the coaches will support Manziel. He doesn't need to play in a game for that... they do touch footballs on the other days of the week.

you sure johnny does? they might still be resting his elbow...

But they don't touch QBs... Manziel's greatest strength at this point is moving around and improvising, he has made some nice throws from in the pocket, but most of his nice throws have come from outside the pocket... it doesn't surprise me in the least that he can't look as good as McCown in practice with the "don't touch me" jersey on, standing there throwing with no threat of being hit. McCown looked like a statue last week, standing in there as the pocket collapsed around him until he threw an off-balance, often off target, pass...

Please read your own quote, but with a detached perspective, as if it were somebody else saying this about some other player.

It is saying that in a controlled setting where there is nothing else to worry about other than the offense, the one player can't look as good as the other because doing that sort of thing (a.k.a. running the base offense) isn't his thing.

Please think about that for a second. If that player can't do that much, then ALL he can do is the improvisational stuff. That's just not enough to be able to count on. That's a FANTASTIC value-add, but it isn't what you build around and count on.