DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who Goes First Jimmie?

I agree. The guy is playing well and people seem ticked off...what's up with that?


Look folks, time to calm down a bit. Nope, the season hasn't started as we had hoped. There are 12 games left. A win this week puts us pretty much where most people thought we would be.

I don't know how it is going to turn out, but the talk about Haden sucking, Haslam sucking, Farmer sucking, Pettine and crew sucking needs to calm down until we see how this plays out.

Nope you have to be delusional like me to post here

i cant stand the guy. but he sure did not cost us the charger game. he did not make any of those mind bogleing stupid, stupid plays that he is known for.

That was a back-handed compliment. Can you not give some credit when it's due?

He is right to be leery of McCown. We all should be. The stinker is coming.

for me that is credit lol

It probably is, but it seems that is what some of you are waiting for....I am sick of it. Our QB play this year hasn't been the problem. Say it or get the heck off the board.


Look, I know you won't leave and I really don't want you to leave, but I am sick of this waiting for a bad game and then like SuperBrown chiming in with a "I told you so, see how good I am".....it goes nowhere with some of us.

I get it, some of you have seen nothing but a crappy team in your life. So why stick around? Really. I have seen the Browns win championships so you can understand why I do.


To me it's about the Browns. I am convinced some of you really aren't fans of the team.

Wanting a bad performance and being prepared for it are not the same thing. I definitely do not want McCown to play poorly. I just don't want to talk myself into him being good because I know he is not.

But he hasn't to this point. That is a fact. When and if he does, maybe you need to consider if any oither mid level QB has ever done that.


Nobody has ever said the guy was going to be one of the greatest ever, but it seems some of you expect one of the greatest ever or the guy is a bum.

The Browns have had lots of QB's who weren't in the greatest ever class and had good teams....Ryan, Nelson, Sipe, Kosar.

McCown has been in the league since 2002 and has been bad nearly 100% of that time. Guys with his age and experience don't magically become not bad.

Some players never had a real chance. If you can agree with that, then you will agree that the past doesn't always foretell the future.

Fact is that McCown really hasn't played all that bad.

For all the Browns fans chirping that Manziel won, and McCown hasn't, they're choosing to ignore the football variables.

When Johnny Manziel won his game, he had a defense that produced seven sacks and three turnovers, he had special teams that returned a punt for a touchdown, and then he had a running game produce around 100 yards.

McCown hasn't really had any of that. The rushing game worked this past Sunday (to an extent) against San Diego, but man did our defense stink it up (obviously).

This is a team that has to be perfect in all three phases of the game, or neither QB are going to win. That's just the sad truth.

Back on topic.

Personally, I don't want Farmer or Pettine fired. The idea of going through our 4th regime change in 6 seasons sounds absolutely awful...

It's just a product of our society: I want my food, and I want it NOW. (and healthy, but NOW is the key word). I want news, and I want it NOW. (I don't care if it changes an hour later - I want it NOW). I want and demand computer access, instantly, at any time, and I want it NOW.

Winning at football - I want it, and I want it NOW, and if it doesn't happen now, fire people so we can start over next year, and I want it NOW.

Movies - I want them NOW, on demand.

More money: I want it NOW regardless of whether I've improved myself to deserve it, and I want it NOW.

No time for anything, I want it NOW.

We see where that's gotten the Browns.

Exactly ^^

I agree with that. McCown is not one of those players. He had started 49 games before he came to us. We know what he is -- bad. I can't even believe this is up for debate.

You do know the guy has lost twice as many games as he's won his entire career? You do know that his road record is now 4-20? You are surprised when we are all waiting for the shoe to drop? Perhaps it's because he's bounced from team to team his entire career being mediocre at best and pretty horrible at worst. ONE partial season he got hot and otherwise he has been entirely unimpressive. Is it possible he's a Rich Gannon? A late bloomer? Sure. But I'm not ready to say that yet. No longer term deals in his future.... Especially not when we are 1-3 and starring a horrific season in the face. Fact is, if we don't start winning some games, it won't much matter what he plays like. Come next season a new coach will be bringing in his own ideas at QB....

Looks a little "blulisional" to me.

The fact that McCown is starting for this team is crippling to the team's long-term future. It's an idiotic decision.

The irony of it all is Pettine is doing it because he feels it will save his job and it might actually have the opposite effect.

"Over the past two games, McCown is 60-of-90 for 697 yards, four touchdowns and one interception. His quarterback rating is 100.1 and he’s one of just four quarterbacks in Browns history to throw for 300 yards in consecutive games. Simply put, the Browns can’t ask for much more than McCown’s provided in these last two games."

I'm still not seeing how this is holding the franchise back...

I don't care if McCown had thrown for 1000 yards and 10 TDs the last two games.

Playing McCown serves no purpose to this team.

Some of the people have given up on this season. That's why they want Manziel at this point.

I am a fan of Manziel as well, but it is way too soon to play him while McCown is playing well. If things keep heading south, Manziel will get the call, but at this point it isn't too far gone to not turn things around. Right now, we don't need to be thinking about the long term future. We need to be thinking about winning our next game.

I heard a caller on local sports talk yesterday saying that McCown playing well for us at age 36 is like a 90 year old winning the Lotto ... no future, no benefit, no point.

If we lose this week, there is a good chance we see Johnny against Denver.

And playing Manziel actually does? Manziel is nothing more than a developmental pick. He was picked that high because of marketing. If they believed at that time that he is the franchise QB we've been waiting for
a) he would have been drafted in Gilbert's place and
b) he would have started Day 1 last year and Hoyer wouldn't have taken the field, and
c) he would have started Day 1 THIS season with McCown as the back up.

No offense intended, but sometimes I feel like some of you guys are over inflating Manziel's (as an individual) importance/role on this team. In fairness I'm sure you guys feel the same way about McCown too

Unless the coaches are convinced that Manziel will be able to play at least as well as McCown, putting him on the field serves no purpose either.

How's all that winning working out for you?

Besides, the "McCown gives the Browns the best chance to win" is what they're selling. You don't have to buy it.

1. IMO, it's delusional to think we are a playoff contender this year. I think our ceiling is 6 wins.

2. I didn't want Manziel and I didn't draft Manziel, but now that we've invested a 1st round pick and now that he is here, we need to find out if he can play. I do NOT want to go into year 3 of the Great Experiment still not knowing what we have in Manziel. We need resolution at the end of this season: he's either the guy or we're drafting a QB in the 1st round, whether its Goff, or Cook, or Kessler, or Cardale.

"...he's either the guy or we're drafting a QB in the 1st round, whether its Goff, or Cook, or Kessler, or Cardale."

That's such a disgusting list of QB prospects, it makes me want to puke.

I think another positive to playing Manziel is it buys everyone another year and I think this franchise needs continuity. If Manziel plays well, that's great. If he doesn't, then it's really his rookie year. Everyone gets a mulligan.

If the Browns continue to lose with McCown as the starter, I think there's a greater chance we start over.

Playing McCown does absolutely nothing for the Browns. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Only bad can come from playing McCown.

I think Goff and Cook are very solid prospects; haven't seen Kessler; Cardale Jones is fading, but still brings intriguing size & skill set. He's probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick right now.

Johnny already got his "do-over". To this point all we really know about him is that he could not beat out Hoyer and McCown. Think about that. I want to see him play and be judged fairly by the front office, but they have to decide this year, IMO. After 2 years, this drama will have gone on long enough.

He couldn't beat out Hoyer and the reasons why are well documented.

He wasn't given the opportunity to beat out McCown.

The only drama is the drama the team is creating by not playing him.

Really? I think the fans are more polarized than they have been since the Couch-Holcomb Wars. Plus, without any insider knowledge, I think the team might polarized too. The polarization isn't necessarily between Manziel and McCown, its a split between those who think he's the second coming of Russell Wilson and those who think he's doesn't belong in this league, at least as a starter. There's 12 games left - let's find out.

What would you say if I told you that I have insider information that there is no polarization on this team (at least on the offense, cannot speak for the defense) but every single offensive player wants McCown as the starter?

Rish - you are absolutely correct that McCown is not the long-term answer; he is a stop-gap. Yes, there is drama at this time as I'm sure there would be with any team in our position. And you are also correct in that we need to find out this season whether Manziel has a long-term future here, or not.

Perhaps the team, as a whole, would respond more positively with Manziel under center. I don't pretend to know, however until we are to all intent and purposes, out of the playoff race, I believe there is little choice but to go with the guy who is playing very well and thus presents the best shot at winning. I certainly do understand your position though...

coaches coach and players play. and players make poor GMs.

Ozzie Smith disagrees as does Ted Thompson.

So does Ozzie Newsome :-)