DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why can't this franchise even reach .500?is,

Is it asking too much for your football team to even
Go 8-8?
High draft picks galore and always having the most cap room in the NFL yet 8 wins is mirage for this franchise.
Since 1999 only 3 times has this franchise gone 8-8 or better.
This team you can lump with the Pirates pre 2013..the Maple Leafs and the LA Clippers pre Chris Paul era as the most inept in sports over the last 20 yrs.
When will this team ever see 8-8?
When Big Ben Flacco and Dalton retire?

Long answer: too long to hash out
Short answer: we've never had a good QB, good players, good coaches, or good management

I think it just goes to show how hard it is to build a team from scratch..like we did.

Look at the most recent franchises that were added to the league [not moved]...
...
Carolina / Jacksonville / Houston / Cleveland

Houston you can argue has had the best success - moderate at best but probably the best Draft pics of the bunch. 84/123 approx W/L but Kubiak almost ended up .500 for his tenure over 8 years.

Coughlin had Jacksonville slightly over .500 for his~ 8 years...

Carolina has been up and down..Fox during his tenure was over .500 and you guessed it - ~ 8years..

You start seeing a trend with tenure of coaches and the elusive .500 mark...

With Baltimore and Pittsburgh being in the playoffs so many years - how many of those 2 wins each on us helped them into the wildcard playoff spot?

Maybe we we need the 8-year coaching plan...

Al Lerner was an inept, crooked owner from New York.

Very hard for a team to flourish when the owner is not passionate about the franchise winning.

Until they keep the staff in tact for more than 4 years, it will never happen. The fans want a winner, but it is the fans who are usually the first to want to fire everybody after one year.

We were .500 week 2..

We were 7-4 last year, before injuries and Hoyer-itis took their toll.

And hot damn (-!) if that wasn't exciting back then too huh? What we live for, football-wise!

Yup there is always a but... for this inept team. BUT we still finished with 5 losses AND another losing season.

There is no way this team wins 7 more games this year.

we have an owner that was a part owner of the steelers. previously we had gm that was coach of seahawks. we have fist time coaches and first time coordinators and first time assistants.

we at least stopped taking from the bill belecheck tree romeo, mangini.

Actually, we have had good coaches, good management and good players. Just not all at the same time. The one consistent is that we've never had "THAT GUY" at QB. We've had decent guys who put it all out there for the Browns at QB, regardless of some might say. But nobody that just made anyone feel "GOOD". we haven't had that guy since Kosar was here.

Our problems, IMO has been knee jerk reactions and inconsistency. Both on and off the field.

It started with the second game of the first year after the return. We had just gotten beaten to death by the Steelers (scheduling gods against the Browns no doubt).

Panic sets in, the regime in power caves in to public pressure and puts a young (not ready for primetime player) Tim Couch in as starter for the second game.

Since then it's been a series of bad decisions. Some were good decisions that just turned out bad, Courtney Brown comes to mind.

They can't stick with a coach or GM long enough for them to work through problems. And problems always show up. No matter how good you are, mistakes will be made. It's how you deal with them that makes a difference.

Panic has been the word of the day since 1999 and until they (powers at the top) settle down and stay the course for a while and help those they hire to work through those mistakes and problems (and things that you can't control, ala Courtney Brown) We'll continue to be the same ole Browns.

Again, JMO. But this thread is another example of fan frustration. I get it. I feel it also.

Shorter answer: Too many losses.

We are improving some, but some big reasons will need addressed next year.

Japanese business model, of sorts: "Don't fix blame; fix problems."

We have been going at it backwards perchance.

2 words.

Art Modell

We do have ThatGuy!! He posted 6 spots ahead of you in this thread....

We are stuck in a losing mentality because we keep bringing in career losers and expect them to become winners. McCown is playing some decent football and he isnt the reason we are 1-3 but he is just another career backup that doesnt have the life spark to turn things around. I believe we win the last 2 weeks with Johnny playing just because he provides a little something that McCown doesnt have.

Play Johnny and give this franchise a chance at breaking the cycle. We need a spark, a winner and until we get that we are stuck. Deon says "pay the man" I say play the man and break the cycle of crap.

quote by Mourgrym above:

"Play Johnny..."

Maybe this will be the strategy.

Manziel has the ability to be a decent NFL QB if he gets over the "hump" (strings together several quality appearances and gains the confidence that he's "just as good as the other guys")

Manziel's not toast. Not yet. I put the odds of him becoming at least an average NFL QB at 33% (1 out of 3)

Maybe this losing cycle will come to an end soon. Maybe it will come to an end this season. Maybe I'm a dim-witted dreamer.

We don't have patients with our coaches and front office. Our knee jerk reaction when things don't go right is to just clean house and start over again. Mean while franchises like New England, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati exercise patients, they preach stability, and they draft well.

We have fans screaming for Pettine and Farmer to get fired, and it'll probably happen. Unless we own the #1, #2 or #3 pick next year, the vicious cycle will probably continue. We just need to find our franchise quarterback. Once we find that guy, he'll make the coaches look better, and the front office look better, and we'll get to keep a staff and front office for more than two years.

I sincerely hate to say this, but unless we're going 9-7 or 10-6 and making the playoffs this year, we really need to be 2-14 or 3-13 so we can get Jared Goff or Connor Cook and finally get that franchise QB we keep missing out on every year.

To me, I think where this franchise set themselves back was in 2009.

We had four picks in the first two rounds of the draft, and three of the players we drafted with said picks are no longer even in the league. The 2011 debacle with Julio Jones was another back breaker too.

I also think we gave up on Colt McCoy way too quick. Our offensive cast in 2011 was a pee-wee team and Peyton Manning himself doesn't win more than 5 or 6 games here that year. Josh Cribbs, Chansi Stuckey and Mohammad Massaqqoui? Yeah, you're going to really develop a young QB with "weapons" like that.

Just need to find a good coach, a good GM, and a competent young QB and just be patients with all of them. 3 or 4 years of stability in a system can seriously go a long way....

Easy question. Long complicated answer.

We have to play better. We have to battle harder. We have to play 60 minutes. We have to look for things to build on.... BLAH BLAH BLAH

So tired of the same old rhetoric. What we need to do is win. What we need to do is be better than teams that are falling apart with injury. What we need to do is play the guys who don't ever let up.

And 99, 2000, 2001, 2002... um yeah pick a year. God hates Cleveland so he gave us another franchise as a joke.

We can support losing coaches and losing teams but a general lack of effort like we have seen this year is alarming. Titans game, McCown gets laid out trying to score a TD, Johnny comes in makes play after play wiped out by stupid penalties and the only ones that seem to give a damn were Manziel and McCown. There was no pulse.

Titans game, team is motivated, johnny strikes early the defense picks up on the entusiasm and its contagious. We started going flat and Manziel bails them out with the big bomb and we are riding high again.

Raiders, worst defense in the league and a young QB and we are a yawn fest. Hell we knew benji was gonna muff the punt and we knew that McCown would throw a pick on the last drive. No one was shocked at all. Its what loser teams do. Hell the Ravens havent beaten us twice in the last 10 years. We beat ourselves, they show up and we find a way to lose.

Chargers last week. they are down to 2 receivers that can actually stand up and 3 OL out and instead of blood in a shark tank, yawn we knew it was coming. Browns give up a big drive to finish the game and even when their kicker misses we give them another shot. Its what losers do.

its a never ending cycle.

To make matters worse we have no effort no desire 9 million dollar welfare recipent sucking the life out of the team. What he is doing is destroying this team and the fact he is still here giving no freaking effort really ticks me off. If he was hurt, I could understand it but I have watched the few plays he is in there and he pulls up going across the middle afraid of contact. Protecting his garbage play makes me lose all respect for the player the coaches, the front office and this team. Joe Thomas, Whitner, Dansby they can all call out rookies but a vet stealing money and not a peep other than to defend their own crappy performances.

you can even go back before that when the great Phil Savage drafted Beau Bell and Martin Rucker. between that year and 2012 no other NFL team drafted as bad as the Browns..
the list is simply numbing.....Veikune. Massaqiou...Hardesty..Robiskie..Richardson..Hubbard...Marecic...all out of the NFL.
OUT OF THE NFL...Johnson...
then the guys that stuck around are backups...McCoy..Weeden...
then you have 1st RD picks who make ZERO contribution or very little impact
Mingo..Gilbert..Manziel....
and then occcasionally they landed solid good players..Ward...Haden...Skrine...but 2 of them are elsewhere playing for playoff teams.

The answer to this question, in detail and etc - would take eternity to explain.

Can anyone actually present an argument for why Pettine should keep his job besides, "Continuity"?

Poor owners hire the wrong coaches and/or fire them too quickly.

Poor owners hire the wrong general managers who draft much worse than average, and in particular, can't seem to find an effective quarterback.

I should probably stop there, but whatever:

All this snowballs and there's a culture of losing and dysfunction that makes it hard to attract and keep top talent. Cleveland itself isn't exactly a great destination either (cold weather, high state income taxes, high crime)... in a phrase "mistake on the lake"-- I personally don't think this, I don't think it is fair but that is the stereotype out there.

Seriously.. how have the Browns lost good free agents? Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking Sheard, Ward, Cameron. The Browns have had plenty of cap space and the original team always has an advantage because they can offer a contract extension far before a player hits free agency. Mack signed in freaking Jacksonville although the Browns were able to match due to the rules of the transition tag. But he clearly did not want to be here, otherwise he would have signed with the Browns to begin with.

Shanahan? How hard did he try to get out of here? Just think outside the box a little here-- if a coach went to such lengths to get out of here, is there much of a chance of the Browns attracting the best coaching talent? Heck Pettine himself was a consolation choice after several other coaches spurned the Browns.

Mike Pettine is growing into the job and with it there are growing pains. Not only that but look at all the nonsense he has had to endure with Josh Gordon just being one example and the high draft picks that don't work out. That would be enough to set back an established head coach never mind a new one. I like Pettine and hope for a big win today to get things going in a positive direction.

The only knock I have on today's win is WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
did Pet let all the time run off the clock on the Ravens last possession before OT?
If they had scored a TD, we would have been toast.
That is VERY concerning!

he seems to have way too much trust in our defensive capabilities.

As leery as I am of agreeing with you about anything ..... I agree with you as to that point.

And further, to actually have sustained success.. it doesn't take one or two of those, it takes ALL OF THEM.. at the same time.

I don't agree with him.

We are fans discussing the team on a message board. We don't really mean anything. I certainly wouldn't want the players to talk like this, but what is the harm in fans doing so?

Asking why the team loses every year is a legitimate question. It really is kind of perplexing in a league that is set up to allow bad teams to get better quickly. And I didn't even really take it as to mean much about this year (I still don't think they are very good fwiw, but was happy they pulled through yesterday.)

Oh they do...

Alright mac, 9 losses, nothing has changed. Discuss.

The Browns were gonna turn it around based on WHAT?
I knew at the start of the season it was 3 to 4 win team at best.
All you had to do was look at the roster and a coaching
staff that was compiled of very unqualified coaches.

Cook of Goff is not in the caliber of Luck or Manning.

Their talent is more in the realm of Matt Leinart/Weeden/Leftwich/Grossman/Brady Quinn/Kyle Boller/J.P. Lossman/Joey Harrington/Cade McCown/Akili Smith. First round backups.

If we draft a QB this year... we will be set back another number of years because we will be reaching and hoping at a position that appears to be a need with talent that does not exist in this draft.

We need to stick with drafting quality players who live and die football and not drafting positional needs.