DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Democratic Debate

I'd rather watch "saved by the bell" reruns..

countries like switzerland have mandatory military service.

and Germany has a strong military as well.

i understand facts aren't your thing. so i'll help you out.

also, Germany exports way more than they import, they have a strong economy because most of their work force remains in Germany, thats why they have a surplus. same goes for all those other countries.

also, yes, As columbus has said, their taxes are pretty high.

but have any of you exactly BEEN there? their roads are top notch, public transportation is one of the most reliable of any developed nations. healthcare system is top notch.

man you guys and this "taxes" like its some sort of boogyman.

i'mma tell you the same thing i told the others: so scared of "free", yet you got no problem giving the middle eastern nations free crap all the time.

half the stuff that requires money can come from stopping all the free stuff we give middle eastern countries who hate us.

but i get it, you don't like investing in your own country. you have made that terribly clear since i've been on this board.

i've been to Oslo.

the grocery stores aren't anywhere near what you're exaggerating.

and it's a capital!!

it's more expensive to eat at Istanbul than say, Adana Turkey. why? becuase it's a MAJOR city.

ANDERSON COOPER TO HILLARY: ‘WILL YOU SAY ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED’

“Some Democrats believe you changed your positions based on political expediency."

http://www.infowars.com/anderson-cooper-to-hillary-will-you-say-anything-to-get-elected/

i don't mind paying a bit more in taxes if my country reflects what we're paying.

paying for our crumbling infrastructure, innovations? universal healthcare? transportation? hell yea i'll pay more.

but i forgot, you guys hate america.(40's line)

You use this as a blanket statement all of the time. I'd have no problem cutting back there to put more money into our own country. I'd also like to stop taking in all of these refugees as well as do something about illegals. Those would put a ton of money back into our own country.

i wanna do something about illegals too.

so whats the problem bro? we get, its not a simple problem to just say everything will be "free"

just like those other countries Bernie likes to mention, the people pay for it.

but guess what? i don't have a problem paying for my country to be better off.

i just don't get it man. people cry about paying taxes, then turn around and cry about why the potholes in the road haven't been fixed yet.

people cry about taxes, but wonder why the highways are crap.

people cry about taxes, yet wonder why we have a crumbling infrastructure.

typically, the countries where the people invest in themselves have the higher standards of living.

you and i both know there are PLENTY of wealthy people in europe, and plenty of strong middle classes in europe even with the higher taxes.

and i wouldn't have to use the blanket statement if it didn't apply to a lot of people on this board.

you might not like what i say, but i say stuff for a reason.

Neil Degrasse Tyson had said it best: the government leads in innovation, in infrastructure, in discoveries.

THEN private industries comes in and says "now that we have the blueprints, we can make this better and more efficient, and cost less".

i got zero problem if the government raises my taxes. i just want them to spend it on stuff that actually matters; taking care of americans, not the middle east.

Sorry, you are wrong about that. My best friend is from Norway - he moved here because he despised the socialism and cannot believe that the US is actually heading that direction. We've often had discussions about the cost of living differences - he rather enjoys living here due to that.

Here is a comparison of COL Oslo vs. New York (which NY has 3M more people that the entire country of Norway):
Oslo vs. New York

Here is a comparison of Columbus, OH to Oslo, which is more in line with the population of Oslo (800k vs 600k).
Oslo vs. Columbus OH

So, you say it is that way because it is the capital? Let's take a look at Bergen, the second largest city in Norway with a population of about 200k:
Bergen vs. Columbus OH

Bergen vs. New York

The comparison of NY to Bergen as far as housing goes is not a good comparison at all, but just about everything else is more expensive in Norway.

Nor do I. But IMO, paying 25% (my approximate adjusted amount) of my income to the federal government is plenty. Then lets factor in sales taxes (7%), local taxes (1.5%), school district taxes (.5%), property taxes (2% of house value), capital gains taxes (15%), and state taxes (5%) and it just gets insane.

I've had it with taxes. I just get depressed talking about it.

Facts, huh?

In 1988, Germany's military expenditure was 2.6% of GDP. It has slowly gone down to 1.2% GDP in 2015.

Sweden has dropped from 2.4 to 1.2% in the same time frame.

UK - 3.2 to 2.1
US - 5.1 to 3.8, but a big part of that drop was during the obama admin.

Russia's have gone from 3.5 to 4.8 from 2010 to today.

You can always donate extra cash to the federal government through your tax forms. I suggest you give it a try.

dude did you even look at your own link?

am i the only person on this board who reads out loud their post before hitting submit?


this is from your link, Oslo VS NY

Milk (regular), (1 gallon) 4.34 $
(35.23 kr) 7.47 $
(60.58 kr) +71.97 %
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (1 lb) 2.84 $
(23.05 kr) 2.77 $
(22.42 kr) -2.71 %
Rice (white), (1 lb) 1.91 $
(15.45 kr) 1.42 $
(11.50 kr) -25.52 %
Eggs (12) 3.32 $
(26.93 kr) 4.03 $
(32.70 kr) +21.44 %
Local Cheese (1 lb) 5.72 $
(46.37 kr) 4.62 $
(37.48 kr) -19.17 %
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1 lb) 5.59 $
(45.31 kr) 5.87 $
(47.64 kr) +5.14 %
Beef Round (1 lb) (or Equivalent Back Leg Red Meat) 7.33 $
(59.45 kr) 9.50 $
(77.04 kr) +29.58 %
Apples (1 lb) 2.27 $
(18.39 kr) 1.11 $
(9.01 kr) -51.01 %
Banana (1 lb) 0.90 $
(7.27 kr) 1.03 $
(8.32 kr) +14.34 %
Oranges (1 lb) 1.90 $
(15.44 kr) 1.11 $
(8.96 kr) -41.95 %
Tomato (1 lb) 2.18 $
(17.65 kr) 1.34 $
(10.88 kr) -38.37 %
Potato (1 lb) 1.36 $
(11.05 kr) 0.87 $
(7.05 kr) -36.22 %
Onion (1 lb) 1.87 $
(15.17 kr) 0.75 $
(6.04 kr) -60.16 %
Lettuce (1 head) 2.09 $
(16.92 kr) 2.00 $
(16.20 kr) -4.24 %
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 2.05 $
(16.65 kr) 2.30 $
(18.61 kr) +11.77 %
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 15.00 $
(121.63 kr) 14.55 $
(118.00 kr) -2.98 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.71 $
(13.86 kr) 3.31 $
(26.84 kr) +93.74 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 2.65 $
(21.46 kr) 3.81 $
(30.93 kr) +44.16 %
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 13.05 $
(105.86 kr) 12.46 $
(101.00 kr)

most of the items on this list is more expensive in NY than it is in Olso.

sorry if i don't consider beer as a grocery store item.

and the housing market, you went more or less "eh, ignore that, it isn't relavent"

lmao, get outta here with that nonsense. it's absolutely a good comparison. you don't wanna use it because it goes against your agenda.

but hey, since i've already schooled you on Norway, you wanna take a crack at the other countries?

lets have fun with numbers:

Berlin Germany vs NYC

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Germany&city1=New+York%2C+NY&city2=Berlin

do you want me to post the grocery market numbers? or do you wanna save yourself the defeat.

hey, lets use columbus ohio, your home town!!!

Berlin Germany vs Columbus

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Germany&city1=Columbus%2C+OH&city2=Berlin

whoops, still better!

and the housing prices are still better than columbus?

statistical data is fun, isn't it columbus dawg?

i got friends all over the world, buddy.

hell my wife is from Germany and hates the autobahn. does that automatically mean all germans hate the autobahn?


lol, come on dude.

you seem to try and make a correlation between what they spend on military and the strength of said military.

thats where you're a failure. but good try though.

I should have not used NY, but there are many of the everyday items that are more in Oslo than there. I am comparing a city that has about 2x more people in it than the entire country of Norway. I used Columbus, not because it is my hometown but because the population is closer and it is a capital city. If you look at those numbers, Norway is insanely more expensive. I'll also take the word of people who have actually lived there for 30 years and not just visited. You are crazy if you think it is not insanely more expensive to live in Norway than the US.

Let's just look at it by country instead of city then:
Norway is more expensive

I don't give a crap about Germany, never used it in my argument and I'll agree, it is lower cost of living than in the US.

So lets look at your other great examples vs the US shall we?
Switzerland costs more to live in

Denmark costs more to live in

Sweden and Germany more split towards costs within the US.
Sweden and US are pretty close on things

Why don't you move back to Germany? You seem to like it there a lot more. I've had it with people wanting to raise taxes.

Like I said, I agree with you on wanting to stop giving to countries that don't give a damn about us - that would be a great place to get some additional money. I already send enough of my money to the government - if you want to send more go for it, there is a place for that on your tax forms.

Those candidates are dinks, promising everything to everyone in a giant handout by taking from the working and successful and giving to the rest. Bernie is too old which leaves Clinton as the only viable candidate for the Dems in my opinion.
Christmas in October was the theme of the night.

Actually, I said that they were able to pay for the social programs because they are scuttling their militaries. Cutting the amount they spend on military and making it smaller is what they have been doing. I never said one thing about they strength of their militaries, as that is dependent on what their mission is. Is their military built to only defend the homeland, or can they be used globally if needed?

The only failure here is your failure of reading comprehension.

I watched the entire debate and have read this entire thread. I came away with the exact same opinion I had going into all of this.

Our government is stagnant. You can not elect someone the other side hates and expect any type of compromise in government. I won't say what I think of either Bernie or Hillary as a candidate, but what I can say is if either one of them gets elected, nothing in Washington will get done. Just as it is now.

There's only one candidate that was on that stage last night who has any chance of reaching across the aisle and that is Jim Webb. He has a military background. Served as Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan and commands a certain kind of respect that the GOP can't simply dismiss.

So for the sake of our country and for the sake of trying to get our government moving again, that's who I support.

You can't elect a president that the other side simply hates and not anticipate total gridlock. People seem to support Hillary and Bernie as if they think the things they are saying will actually happen. They won't.

no, what you said was they don't spend money on the military because we protect them.

which is false. a failure.

do you lose your memory after every post? is this "Momento"?

I do want to move back. I want to finish my degree first.

but things could change in 4-5 years with my decisions. maybe my wife will actually learn to like it here in the states. i dunno.

I said exactly, "Where do they get those surpluses? Oh yea, they scuttled their militaries because they have the US to defend them." These countries are cutting their spending on their military. The US has agreements to protect easily half of Europe. How is what I said wrong. Once again, your failure, or do you not have anything better than an 'un-uh' to add to this?

Webb is a good man but he ain't got a chance of getting elected.

Trump is secretly a Democrat and Hillary is secretly a Republican.

Vote cautiously.

Well Pit I gotta admit that your post was the most pointed and thoughtful I had read and I agree with you about Webb keep it up cause I am liking your posts a lot more these days

We don't often agree, but here we do. And I think it's a shame. I've always been very moderate. I'm a huge supporter of our military but do not always agree with the missions our Commander In Chief sends them on. I was for the War in Afghanistan but against the invasion of Iraq.

I'm a very staunch supporter of the second amendment and believe the government should be less intrusive in our daily lives. All of those things would be conservative ideas.

But I do believe you're right. A man like Webb makes too much sense. He's far too moderate for the left wing of the party to ever gain the nomination. People want what they want and our government working and the actual art of compromise has been lost.

That goes for both parties. Our political system has become the text book definition of dysfunction.

Well thanks Riley. I don't walk lock step with the Tea Party or the far left. There's a lot of ground in the middle.

and there's plenty of room up here on my fence.

so there's no such thing as seeing things from both perspectives?

You don't have a fence. In your world it's us verses them. That's what's wrong with America. You embody it.

You have become the very definition of what's wrong with our country.

As America continues it slide into Socialism, I for one can not take a stand somewhere in the middle.

That's your choice. But when push comes to shove, compromise has always been a part of how the political process moves. Without it, the government will stagnate and we will surely see an end to our nation as we know it.

Webb was Reagans Secretary of Defense. Even Reagan had the common sense to compromise and work with the other party.

We are 19 Trillion in debt.
So when the Dems want to spend spend spend and the Congress says no no no, you would rather they compromise? NO!

It's all ok now, Bernie is going to take giant chunks of money from wall street and giant chunks of money from the wealthy and make it all better... so relax.

Bernie ain't gonna do nuttin.

Last night he secured himself a position in a Clinton administration if she wins.

After watching the Republican debate and then watching the Democrat debate I was left wondering...

Where be the Minorities? Where they be? Repubs got 4, Dems ain't got none! What happened to Diversity???

Sanders wants to spend 18 trillion. We don't spend 18 trillon on the middle east. Your liberal fuzzy math is going to come up short on paying for all this free stuff.

The government is extremely inefficient when it comes to handling things. I'm not willing to have taxes go up a penny until they all the waste under control.

I prefer to keep the money I earned.

Yeah, but, but, but.....as long as it's someone else's money, right?

*Sigh*

Bernie's idea to pay for these programs comes from reinstituting tax levels as they were under Eisenhower. Did every pay the full amount? No, but enough money will flow back in to pay for these great ideas. The other idea comes from tax dollars off of rampant wall street speculation.

He just wants to restore America as it was under a republican president from the 1950s. I'm not sure how that reeks of socialism? I guess it just goes to show how far right we've drifted as a country.

i was just about to say that.

plus, its over the next 10-15 years.

people get so scared of the word socialism and don't even realize the majority of programs we have in this country since FOREVER are socialist programs.

you guys do so much fear mongering, you end up scaring yourselves.

and of course Arch with a useless response.