DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Oregon shooting: Gunman dead after college rampage

Well if I'm politely not bringing my gun into your house I would have to leave it in the car, now wouldn't I?

dude, we don't need to start a fund raiser for your new hip replacement.

From what I've read of your comments here, I'd say you believe that owning a gun is irresponsible gun ownership.

What was your hit rate in the military?

I prefer a stationary target, but I have also gotten 2 deer within the last 5 years that were on a dead run. They weren't 100 yards away, granted. Both went down with one shot.

38/40.

It's expert but I kinda sucked. Pop up targets were so much easier than paper.

I'm deadly with a 240B, 50 cal just had to walk the rounds up.

I wonder how many gun owners actually zero their weapons.

I know the hunters do, but "casuals" is what I'm talking about.

Laser sights make life easy.

I didn't say I wouldn't allow you to politely bring it in. I just want to know if someone is armed in my house. I don't know why it's all or nothing with gun owners and why they feel the need to hide it.

38/40.....what gun? What distance? Pop ups were easier than paper targets? Hmm, pop ups would be tougher for me I would imagine.

But really, what I was talking about was your hit ratio in combat - when people are shooting back. As, that was what your initial reply was about - cops hitting only 18% when suspects were shooting back.

A guest in your house should let you know.

Unfortunately if I carry and go to the store, every other Lib will scream and faint at the sight of a gun. That is why Concealed Carry is necessary. I would rather the bad people saw my weapon and went elsewhere but I must hide the weapon to protect the wimps from themselves. Fact of life these days.

M4 carbine.

remember, we zero our rifles with a paper target. then we use pop ups, the furthest distance being 300 meters, closest is 50 meters, for 40 shots total. every now and then we used paper.

the reason most soldiers you'll talk to likes pop ups is because they're easier to see. and just more fun. i hated paper targets, especially on windy days. the ranges in the military aren't exactly the maintained well, so sometimes the silhouettes(sp) would fall out of the thing it's sitting in.

and how the hell am i suppose to know what our percentage was? unless we're laying suppressive fire, we don't spray and pray. every time i had to pull out my M4, i saw exactly what i was shooting at.

urban warfare is different from police tactics. the typical cop isn't walking around with 50+ lbs of gear on. he/she isn't wearing a IOTV, ACH, combat load(210 rounds, 7 mags, 30 rounds) knee/elbow pads, oakley googles and sweating his ass off cause it's a buck 20 outside.

30% when somebody isn't shooting was my initial reply. please read it again.

come on florida. what typical human has the speed or agility of a deer?

and its mostly not in the middle of the woods.

You do understand I was replying to a comment made by 40 with that reply right?

And if they don't?

You should report them to authorities as gun toting lunatics.

Its your house, handle it.

Then I suppose you'll not worry about it because you won't know about it, unless you're rummaging through their personal items.

No! That would be a Lunatic thing to do.

Well, from Obama's speech after the Oregon shooting:



Australia did confiscate guns. "they want to take away your guns" isn't as far fetched as some would have you believe.

and the majority of Australians don't have a problem with it.

and guess what? your chances of survival go up a lot higher when you're attack with a knife.

hell, you can actually defend yourself.

but look, i'm for guns.

what i'm not for is idiots like the guy in arizona who took his weapon all up in the airport because "he can".

i'm not for idiots waving their rights all up in walmart or chipotle.

You pass a background check? have all the weapons you like.

But should you be allowed to buy a guy at a gun show because of loopholes? no.

should you be allowed to have a gun after your kid gets a hold of it and shoots somebody, or themselves? no. because you've already proven you aren't a responsible gun owner.

should you be allowed to have a gun after a failed suicide attempted(it happens). no.

so i don't see what the problem is. nobody is trying to take your guns in this country.

but maybe you should tell responsible gun owners who get their guns legally, to actually be responsible.

I'm a gun owner. I am responsible.

I've always like this one too. What if they tried to slash their wrists? Do you remove all the kitchen knives from the house along with everything glass? Just like shooters that want to make a name for themselves by committing mass murder, a suicidal person will find a way, no matter what precautions you take.

household items original purpose isn't to commit suicide/homicide with.

a gun's original intent was to kill.neutralize a target.

stop with the logical fallacies, please.

nevermind, you're the same guy who used the "Car can kill" nonsense.

What exactly is the 'gun show loophole'?

buying a gun at the gun show makes it so you don't have to go through a background check.

What logical fallacy? Men will tend to use a gun to commit suicide, while a woman will tend to use a knife or pills. I guess all those Palestinians trying to stab Israelis are just trying to show off kitchen ware. A weapon is a weapon, plain and simple. It's the intent of the person using the deadly item that matters, just like the Palestinian that ran over Israelis waiting for a bus two days ago.

Odd. I had a backround check to buy my wife her .380 at a gun show last spring. As I was buying it for her, she had to fill out paperwork also.

you know its true with tons of gun shows. stop acting lost. the news is out there.

thats a logical fallacy.

but since we wanna go to an extreme, why can't i own an RPG?

I've never been to one in my area where you didn't have to fill out a backround check. It's damn sure not true in my experience.

Judge poses hypothetical in abortion rul...ces in Alabama?

MONTGOMERY, Alabama --- U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson drew a parallel between a woman's right to choose abortion and the right to keep and bear firearms in his ruling that a 2013 state abortion clinic law is unconstitutional.

Thompson found that the requirement that abortion doctors have admitting privileges at hospitals in the same metropolitan area that they do abortions is an undue burden on women's right to abortion.

Plaintiffs who sued to block the law argued it would force three of the state's five clinics to close, leaving only the clinics in Huntsville and Tuscaloosa.

Thompson posed this hypothetical in his 172-page opinion: Suppose the state or federal government passed a new restriction on who could sell firearms, and it resulted in only two vendors being able to stay in business, one in Huntsville and one in Tuscaloosa.

"The defenders of this law would be called upon to do a heck of a lot of explaining -- and rightly so in the face of an effect so severe," Thompson wrote. "Similarly, in this case, so long as the Supreme Court continues to recognize a constitutional right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, any regulation that would, in effect, restrict the exercise of that right to only Huntsville and Tuscaloosa should be subject to the same skepticism."

The law has not been enforced while the case was pending. Today's ruling keeps a temporary restraining order in place.

That's unacceptable. Even W. Bush said he was gonna close that...

It's not necessarily a gun show loop hole, it's a private seller loop hole. The dealers at a gun show have to do the background check. If it's just a guy selling his gun, no check is required. Just like if you bought it out of a newspaper ad or if you bought it from a friend. Your friend isn't doing a back ground check on you but there is nothing illegal about your friend selling you his/her gun.

link

Background checks for guns: What you need to know; Wednesday Apr 10, 2013 11:56 AM

Lawmakers reached a compromise Wednesday to expand background checks to cover buyers at gun shows and shopping on the Internet, just like those already required when buying from licensed dealers. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.

Two critical senators with “A” ratings from the National Rifle Association proposed a deal Wednesday that would expand background checks on firearms sales, which are currently required on purchases from federally licensed dealers. The compromise proposal put forward by Senators Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey would mandate them for sales at gun shows and on the Internet as well, yet make an allowance for transfers between family members.

More than 167 million checks were made through the FBI's system between 1998 and early 2013, but the process remains obscure to many Americans. What are background checks, and why has it taken so long for lawmakers to piece together a deal on a measure polls say is overwhelmingly favored by American voters? Here’s a primer:

How do background checks work now?

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 established the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which allows the seller to check a buyer’s eligibility with a search that usually takes less than a minute. The system was fully launched in 1998. Before selling a gun, the gun store worker calls in to the FBI or other designated law enforcement agency to run a check against the system’s records. If the prospective buyer’s record doesn’t raise a red flag – possible triggers include a person having been adjudicated as mentally ill or being sought by law enforcement – the sale is cleared to go through.

What kinds of gun purchases don’t require background checks under current law?

That depends on where you live. In the wake of the Newtown school shooting, President Obama asked for a federal law that would require universal background checks, including at gun shows. Right now, only California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island require background checks at gun shows, according to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. But most states have looser restrictions. While local laws can vary widely, 33 states do not have a law addressing what is commonly referred to as the “gun show loophole.” Similarly, regulations on sales between private parties or transfers between family members can be very different from state to state, where they exist at all.

Is the background-check system foolproof?

Critics of the current background check system point to gaping holes in the ways states submit records to the NICS. While 44 states have individual laws regulating the sale of firearms to the mentally ill, for example, far fewer states submit the names of prohibited mentally ill individuals to the national database. Just seven states account for 98 percent of the names prohibited for mental illness, according to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, meaning most states are in there barely, if at all. In one oft-cited example, Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho passed a background check before obtaining a gun and killing 32 people, despite having been declared mentally ill two years before. States are responsible for compiling mental health records from courts, hospitals, and other sources to submit to NICS, but they are not legally required to do so.

Does the public support broader background checks?

The vast majority of American voters do. Eighty-five percent of Americans said they support background checks at gun shows and for private sales in a Pew Research Center poll released earlier this year. Other polls have found even wider support for broadening checks, with 92 percent of respondents to a February survey by Quinnipiac University saying they favored them on every single gun sale. That number dropped to 91 percent among gun-owning households.

Given this level of support, why aren’t universal background checks already law?

That’s a harder question to answer, as the issue becomes bitterly political. Momentum on Capitol Hill toward a bill requiring comprehensive background checks has been slow to gain traction. Republican Senators Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and Mike Lee said that they would filibuster debate on new gun legislation, but that idea lost steam on Tuesday as other Republican lawmakers including Sen. John McCain said they would not support a filibuster. The NRA released a statement on Wednesday after the Manchin-Toomey compromise was announced saying that expanding background checks “will not prevent the next shooting, will not solve violent crime and will not keep our kids safe in schools.” Other opponents of expanded background checks have argued that they would require a national registry of gun owners, something the White House has denied.

Are background checks effective?

The numbers show that background checks do keep guns out of the hands of at least some people who are not supposed to have them. Nearly 1.8 million applications for firearm transfers or permits were denied between the passage of the law in March 1994 and December 2008, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. The FBI and state law enforcement denied firearm purchases to 153,000 people in 2010 alone, the most recent year for which data is available.

Only if the seller is a private citizen, selling his/her own private collection.

Any of the licensed retail dealers at shows still have to go though the proper channels.

No different than outside the gun show, the only difference is the gun show provides a forum for a collection of both private and retail sales. And most gun shows have limits how much a private seller can bring for sale.

so you just tag a bunch of different private sellers that night.

Background Checks for All Gun Sales

Bottom line: A significant loophole in federal law enables dangerous people who are
legally prohibited from buying or possessing guns—including felons, fugitives, and
domestic abusers—to easily evade the law and buy guns from unlicensed sellers without
a background check and with no questions asked.
The United States has a significant gun violence problem:

• There are more than 30,000 gun deaths per year in the United States, and roughly 33 people are murdered with guns every day.

• In 2012 alone, 11,622 people were murdered with a gun in the United States—more than double the number of U.S. soldiers killed in combat during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Strong gun laws—including universal background checks—effectively reduce gun violence:

• Background checks effectively prevent prohibited people from buying guns. Since November 1998, roughly 2.4 million gun sales to prohibited purchasers have been prevented because of background checks.

• States that require background checks for all handgun sales have lower levels of gun violence compared with states that do not require background checks:
– 46 percent fewer women are shot and killed by their intimate partners.
– 48 percent fewer law enforcement officers are shot and killed with handguns.
– 48 percent fewer gun suicides are committed.

• After Missouri repealed a law in 2007 that required background checks for all handgun sales, the state’s murder rate went up by 14 percent, and the firearm homicide rate increased by 25 percent.

• The 10 states with the weakest gun laws collectively have an aggregate level of gun violence that is more than twice as high as the 10 states with the strongest gun laws. Current federal law suffers from a key weakness—it does not require background checks for all gun sales:

• Under current federal law, only federally licensed gun dealers, or FFLs, are required to conduct a background check for all gun sales. People who maintain that they only occasionally sell guns are not required to obtain a license or to conduct background checks. 92 percent of Americans 13 85 percent of households with a National Rifle Association member Support for requiring background checks for all gun sales 92% 85% 2 Center for American Progress | Background Checks for All Gun Sales

• One study found that 68.8 percent of prison inmates who used guns in crimes obtained their guns through transactions that did not require a background check.

• Many of these private sales occur at gun shows or online:
– A 2013 Mayors Against Illegal Guns investigation of individuals seeking to buy guns on the website Armlist.com found that 1 in 30 prospective buyers on the site were legally prohibited from buying or possessing guns.
– A 2009 investigation of gun shows in Nevada, Ohio, and Tennessee found that 63 percent of private sellers were willing to sell guns to someone who indicated that
they would be unlikely to pass a background check.1 Opportunities to strengthen background checks in the 114th Congress are as follows:

• Pass legislation that requires background checks for all gun sales. – 17 states and Washington, D.C., require background checks for all handgun sales; after the Newtown shooting, a number of states, including Colorado and Washington, acted to close the background check loophole.

• Ensure sufficient federal funding for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, so that states have the resources necessary to provide records of prohibited individuals to the background check system. – The omnibus funding bill that was enacted in December 2014 provided $73 million in funding for NICS—an increase of 33 percent over the fiscal year 2014 level.