DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Russia Airstrikes in Syria, not helping fight against ISIS, seem to help Assad.

Let the Russian's die for their country. Bring our troops home.

LOL

That's pretty good.

Official: Russia ‘deliberately targeting’ US-backed forces in Syria

Moscow is "deliberately targeting" U.S.-backed forces in Syria as part of a military campaign that has killed up to 150 CIA-trained rebels, a U.S. official told Fox News.

The claim comes as the U.S. and Russian militaries try to reach an agreement about flight safety in the skies over Syria. Officials from both countries are holding their third videoconference on the issue Wednesday, as U.S.-led coalition and Russian aircraft look to avoid collisions as they launch airstrikes into Syria.

But even as they try to "de-conflict," evidence is mounting that Russia's air campaign is targeting more than just the Islamic State.

"Putin is deliberately targeting our forces," a U.S. official, who is disappointed in the U.S. response to Russia, told Fox News.

"Our guys are fighting for their lives," said the official, estimating up to 150 CIA-trained moderate rebels have been killed by the Russians.

The Obama administration recently ended its troubled program to train select Syrian rebels, but has continued to equip the opposition. Over the weekend, the U.S. military airdropped 50 tons of small arms ammo and grenades in northern Syria.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/...a/?intcmp=hpbt1

Gee. Russia is propping up a dictator friendly to them to protect their only port in the Med. Who'da thunk it?

I have no idea why this is a shock to anyone.

On 60 Minutes Putin explained plainly that he supported Assad staying in power. He pointed out Iraq and Libya as to what happens when you leave a power void in the middle east. All we seem to be doing is trying to repeat our mistakes from the past.

Let Putin get into a quagmire like the did in Afghanistan. It's better than us doing it...... again.

And if your guess that it will be a quagmire is wrong, you have given Russia control of the Middle East.

Fox is reporting Cuban Special Forces have landed in Syria.

Because removing dictators from power in the Middle East has done what exactly?

Let the Russians sacrifice their own soldiers.

Once again, if you feel so strongly, please buy a plane ticket and handle business.

They have been doing this since Day 1 of their bombing activity. Heck, I posted an article on it what... two weeks ago? Russia SAID they were moving forces in to launch attacks against ISIS/ISIL, but none of their attacks have actually been such. They've done nothing but attack the rebels who are nowhere near ISIS/ISIL forces. Why? Because Syria (al-Assad) isn't worried about ISIS/ISIL, but they are concerned about those pesky rebel forces.

It isn't a quagmire for Russia and never will be. They're helping an ally.
al-Assad and Russia don't want *US* or the rebels there. Neither of them care one lick about ISIS/ISIL; they're a middling threat compared to the rebels.

Yes, you and I both posted it but now it has been confirmed by our Gov.

I think Cuban Special Forces adds an interesting twist.

While I won't get into a huge debate with you for I have found it fruitless in the past, you do realize we have over 50 bases in the middle east, correct?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zQVqvB9UmUTc.kCl6RXZmRmIs&hl=en_US

Putin keeping Assad in power would in no way signal "giving Russia control of the middle east."

I mean that sounds like a great headline or talking point, it in no way reflects reality.

They want all threats to Assad taken out. That includes ISIS. And they have actually hit ISIS targets too.

A few things:

1) Putin has made himself the Russian Dictator for life.
2) He is becoming increasingly belligerent
3) He will not back down

I think we are closer to World War III (nuclear war) since before the Reagan years.

For those of you too young to remember, before Reagan (the 1970s and earlier), every competent American adult pretty much felt World War III was inevitable.

And I don’t consider myself the Henny Penny type (“The sky is falling, everyone look out”)

And you do realize that a Russia, Syria, Iran alliance surrounds Iraq?

You don't really believe Putin will be done once he secures this alliance do you?

Another possibility still exists. If Russia continues to be successful in this creation of an alliance, the West may make him a financial offer he will gladly accept and drop Syria like a bad habit.

Good old International Intrigue at its finest.

Iranian soldiers are now entering Syria under Russian air cover.

The plot thickens.

You seem to have some great mind for conspiracy theories.

You draw up a far fetched hypothetical that attempts to instil fear into the equation where simply none exists. But that's how we ended up in Iraq in the first place.

Now what you theorize is a very remote possibility. However, having more than 50 bases in the area gives us a huge amount of stability in the region. We too have powerful allies in the region. If Putin pushes us into war, we are prepared to take him head on in that part of the world.

What I'm tired of, is starting wars before they are needed. Choosing war when it's not imminent. If we were to do that now, the scenario you paint would be a certainty. As of now, it's not.

You sit back while Russia takes control in the Middle East and talk of conspiracies if it makes you comfortable. I am interested in seeing what Putin is up to and how it effects America, which is my only concern.

By the way, in case you haven't noticed, our Allies don't trust us like they used too. Don't expect them to go out on a limb for us anymore.

You can return to calling those who tried to warn us of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor as far fetched conspiracy theorists as they showed interest in what was going on before it actually happened. Pfft

Which is exactly what I wish to do.

Yea sure, and when I do it, its Conspiracy Theory.

Well that certainly wasn't the message you were sending. We have to be vigilant in keeping ourselves apprised of the situation. Not start a war pre-maturely like we have done in the past.

I am really not sure how I feel about this. Right now, there are Russians, Cubans, and Iranians in Syria. I kind of miss the national unity that existed during the cold war, and it was good for business most of the time. I don't want to see the new incarnation of the soviet union, though.

You have China and Russia in a formal alliance. You have Russia setting up a situation where Iran can swoop in to take over Syria and Iraq. Iran now backed by Russia attains nukes. They obliterate israel with them. Rest of Middle East cheers for joy and treats them as a hero. A much larger Iran allies with Russia and China. Iran will lay claim to territory rights saying they are the new Persian Empire and many middle East countries will see them backed by Russia and China and simply surrender. Even if they do fight back they will be obliterated.

The alliance of Russia, China, and the new Persian Empire will control most of the oil supply for the Entire world. Most of Europe will have no choice but to give into their demands because of their reliance on foreign oil.

Russia and China already understand the dynamics of this situation which is why they formed a formal alliance to begin with.

The next world war starts with a nuclear Iran. This war will be the one the causes over a billion deaths. Our next president had better be someone who understands that America is going to need one hell of a military to even have a brief hope of surviving what is to come.

your conspiracy theory would hold merit if

A: China longest export of 17% didn't go to the US, and

B: The US wasn't part of NATO.

but go ahead and keep that fear mongering going.

China is exporting to the Entire world. Not just us. They have also being using our debt to land favorable rights to key docks and industrial areas. Even if they did nothing but simultaneously blow things up they gained control of it would severely cripple the US.

Russia is already in flagrant violation of nato treaties and could care less about Nato. After all most of Europe has very weak militaries and counts on the US military backing them up. Oh but wait the US has greatly diminished its military power under Obama and according to you Swish we should weaken our military EVEN further while Russia and China are doing everything they can to build up their military. Nato is on the brink of complete uselessness.

I am not fear Mongering either btw. I am not afraid at all. You go deep enough in the woods and it don't matter who the government is. I just call it like I see it. I see a lot of recurring patterns the led to the last word war.

Lets review history:



Do you see any similarities to our own past 10 years?

except china is exporting 17% to the US, while also relying on us to send them raw material.

sorry, but if you think China is gonna sacrifice 17%, then you're just crazy.

If Putin didn't care about NATO, then why hasn't he tried a NATO nation yet? why is he so worried about Ukraine joining the EU, and joining NATO?

You realize even if we cut back defense spending, it doesn't affect our training, right? cutting defense spending doesn't mean what you think it means.

remember those billions of dollars we wasted on jets the military said they didn't need?

you don't think that should've probably been cut?

like i said, keep the fear mongering going.

Russia will not straight up invade a NATO nation, because it will be over it. you're talking every NATO nation in Europe, + the thousands o US troops stationed throughout Europe, and thats going even while the rest of the boys here in the states fly over.

Sorry, but China doesn't like Russia that much to get involved with it's bread and butter.

oh yea, the EU counts of 16% of China's Exports, BTW. you're right lol, we aren't the only ones China exports to.

Iran or syria being allied with Russia does what if the war goes down? Syria is nothing, and Iran just got billions of dollars potentially released, plus access to the complete global market with this Iranian nuclear deal. Even the muslims aren't that stupid to throw that out the window for some fantasy Cold War cosplay. some James Bond movie.

I call it like i see it too bro. fear mongering.

China right now is trying to build an actual middle class now, they're raising the wages of their people. they are on the verge of true economic dominance by being this embedded to the US.

they're not gonna mess that up for some guy who dreams about the good ole days of the Iron Curtain.

I think you'd find Israel making the first pre-emptive strike with a nuke before that happens. They'd turn Iran into a glowing glass parking lot before they'll let Iran even aim a nuke in their direction.

Stuff be a-changin' Erik.

We're never going back to those 'times of yore' that seem so attractive. The new stuff isn't really any worse... it's just new- and different-looking to those of us who are 'of a certain vintage.' In reality, it's just more of the 'same old Human Stuff'... wrapped in a shiny new package.

The 'national unity' you remember fondly is now being replaced by the 'politics of personal ideology.' Kids from Saudi Arabia and Japan are hooking up with like-minded ideologues from Santa Barbara, Dresden, Helsinki and Sao Paulo. Lines on a map mean nothing today.

And that changes absolutely everything.

========================

That may sound ominous to those of us who were raised during the Cold War, but many good things can potentially come from the same tech that allows ISIL to recruit white & black kids from America's heartland.

I'm trying to look a it this way:

America's meteoric rise to power in the last ~160 years wasn't due to capitalism, conservative/progressive ideology, or even 'American Exceptionalism.'
It was facilitated because of the "free" exchange of ideas.

I see this same theme now playing out on a global scale... and it has been happening at almost the speed of light, ever since the inception of the internet.

__________

As for 'the new incarnation of the soviet union,' I'm not so worried, as long as Putin (or his like) are in charge. In some ways, I'm equally not concerned about Xi Jinping's bunch for the same reasons:

They both run repressive regimes that seek to restrict/regulate/monitor the free flow of information that impacts their citizens. And as we all know from our own (slightly less- restrictive/regulated regimes), that never works for very long. Since time immemorial, Human Beings have ALWAYS found ways to communicate past boundaries (...one needs only to look at our nation's prison population to see how right I am about this- Cons can freely communicate with those 'on the outside' because they live in an entire culture that is based upon 'getting the word out' ).

_____________________

Putin was stumped for months by a 3-girl punk rock band called "Pussy Riot." Finally, they were jailed- and their incarceration only served to increase their global profile. REALITY CHECK: 2 years after I first heard about them, "Pussy Riot" were guests on the US TV show "The Colbert Report"- just weeks after they were released from a Russian prison. Putin couldn't stop them from happening, no matter how hard he tried.

Xi's administration has had their share of problems too- from dissident visual street artists like Liu Bolin (who does the 'invisible man' photographic series) to free-range hackers who seek to unlock 'Worldwide Facebook' for their fellow Chinese citizens.

Xi can't stop them either.

'Almighty Vlad' did everything his KGB background trained him to do... and he couldn't stop a handful of 20-something Russian girls with rock music instruments and a counterculture message. Xi has tried everything he can- to the same results.

Think about it: I'm an American citizen, talking openly to another American citizen- about people we shouldn't even know exist (if their respective countries could truly contain their citizens).

"Arab Spring"- for better or worse- is a manifestation of 'universal social media.' .txt messages brought hundreds of thousands into public places to shout their voices for change.

Malala Yousafzai is now known throughout the world... and is an internationally-recognized Nobel Prize-winning spokesperson for (women's) Human Rights issues... and she came from Pakistan- one of the most backward, repressive regimes in the modern 'nuclear power' sphere.

_________________

In each and every one of these examples, the underlying message is clear:

1. NO government power is strong enough to ever totally control its people.
2. No person is powerless, if (s)he can be heard by others.


I get what you're saying. I really do. BUT- I counter your concerns with this thought: "Nothing we see is ever all good or all bad. The Truth is always somewhere more near the middle.

After all is said and done, The People hold the power to take their future into their own hands. What they do with that power determines how our next chapters are written.

*************************

Your fears about "America's enemies" are understandable... but out-dated. The Game has changed. We have enemies and allies everywhere.


.02


.02

Are you aware the Russian Government controls the Press in Russia and the recent proof of the fact that a Russian Missile shot down that Malaysian airliner was not reported to the Russian people. If the West tried to punish Russia for this act, the Russian people would see it as an American attack on innocent Russia?

Power to the people? Hogwash!

N

Tell that to my 14 year old son who will inherit the wrath of a president who has created more debt for this country than any other before him. Yes, he may have the power to affect change in his adult life, but this will be one heck of a mountain to climb and overcome for our future generations.

Yes.

Although it has taken 7 years for Obama to learn his lesson about leaving a vacuum in hot spots around the world, he now says he will be leaving 5500 boots on the ground in Afghanistan
even after he leaves office. I wish he had learned this lesson before he left a vacuum in Iraq by withdrawing all our troops, empowering the ISIS rampage.

So, after going to the gym, and thinking long and hard in my place of zen( the toilet), i've come to the conclusion that the only thing i would justify having boots on ground in the middle east is to make it so that the Kurdish people can have their own country again.

now i know that involves assisting them against ISIS. also, i have to suck up Turkish pride as i know we got major beef with them.

But seeing as Iraq is a hell hell, i'd take the part of iraq and syria that they control, help them defend it and make them an official country. Convincing Turkey to give up some land is pretty much a pipe dream, so i wouldn't even bother.

a modern day Kurdistan would put US ally and dominance squarely in the middle of...the middle east? lol.

other than that......there's zero reason to be over there.

How does Russia trying to regain what was already a staunch ally make them control the Middle East...as opposed to them just making sure they didn't lose the foothold they already had?

You did realize they already had a naval base in Syria that's pretty gosh darn important to them strategically, right?

I can't stand our president, but I think he was correct in his response which went something along the lines of "how is Russia gaining power when it has lost the staunch support/puppets of two countries over which it used to exude heavy influence...and it's willing to tank its economy trying to keep both?"

Breaking News...
Russia has been bombing the snot out of our allies in Syria and now Obama orders boots on the ground to support them.
The chances of a direct confrontation between US and Russian Troops has just taken another step closer.

Here's the News release...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-deploy-special-operations-forces-syria-official-n454506

thats not good...

No its not. During the Vietnam years we called this Mission Creep. We are now in a position of fighting this from behind, playing catch up. Very dangerous. So far it will only be 50 boots but Nam started this way.

I had hoped we learned our lesson but apparently we are headed back to the days of proxy wars.

-mis·sion creep
noun
a gradual shift in objectives during the course of a military campaign, often resulting in an unplanned long-term commitment.

-A Proxy War is a conflict between two nations where neither country directly engages the other. While this can encompass a breadth of armed confrontation, its core definition hinges on two separate powers utilizing external strife to somehow attack the interests or territorial holdings of the other.

Welcome back to Vietnam, folks.

My problem with the last two administrations, one was a warmonger, and the other just as dangerous because of ignorance..I'm glad I'm out.

we shouldn't be over there. at all.

if the russians wanna scarifies their soldiers lives for that region of the world, then let them.

i'm tired of having american lives killed over a region that doesn't even like us. why are we so hell bent on fixing the middle east instead of fixing our country?

war mongering everywhere.