DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Buster Skrine

Should struggling Cleveland Browns' defense have kept T.J. Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Buster Skrine? Tom Reed analysis

BEREA, Ohio – Right player, right price.

Those were the words Browns coach Mike Pettine used several times in the spring when discussing pending free agents. They are cringe inducing when applied to Dwayne Bowe's time in Cleveland.

For now, however, Pettine and the Browns have larger issues than the receiver's lack of production as they head to Baltimore to face the Ravens in a battle of 1-3 division rivals. They must fix the NFL's lowest-rated and highest-paid defense.

Debate rages this week as to what ails it. Is it scheme, personnel, execution? Most likely, it's a combination. But there's another factor to consider: Did the Browns allow a few key contributors go in free agency who could be helping their defense?

Should they have kept versatile front-seven player Jabaal Sheard? How much better would the secondary look with Buster Skrine as part of it? And, going back a year, when general manager Ray Farmer and Pettine took over, should the Browns have re-signed strong safety T.J. Ward, who's made back-to-back Pro Bowl trips?

Sheard (Patriots), Skrine (Jets) and Ward (Broncos) have become valued members of new teams with a combined 10-1 record. The Browns' tortured draft history since 1999 is well chronicled so when a player the organization has developed leaves and enjoys success elsewhere it's difficult for some to accept. Especially, when the salary cap is not issue.

Browns left tackle Joe Thomas, who's "disappointed" by Sheard's departure, addressed the subject in general terms.

"It's a tough one," he told NEOMG. "Ideally, you would like to keep your good players. Even if they're not a Pro Bowl player, you want to keep your good players you drafted. That's what teams like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati and teams who have had a lot of consistency and success do. They might draft a guy and it takes them a few years before they see the field but after four years any good college player with the skills is going to have time to figure it out and find some role.

"That's the huge advantage teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati – the teams that have had consistent coaching staffs, GMs – they have patience with their guys."

NFL analyst Ross Tucker agreed Sheard, Skrine and Ward are all having strong starts to the season, but the Browns' struggles on defense go beyond a few personnel moves.

"Whether it's Sheard or Skrine or Tramon (Williams) or Whitner, the bottom line is the defense isn't good enough," said the contributor to NBCSN, SiriusXM NFL Radio, Sports on Earth and the Ross Tucker Football Podcast.

"It's Year Two for these guys and it should be better. I don't know how much it's Pettine or Farmer picking the players . . . but whatever they are doing it's not good enough when their defense is performing the way it is, which is very disappointing."

Here's a closer look at the Browns' decisions to move on from Ward, Sheard and Skrine and the impact they are having:

Homecomings

New regimes want to make their own marks on personnel. It's that way with any company whether it's in the business of widgets, wings or wins.

Farmer's first season with the Browns as an assistant GM proved to be Ward's last. Despite a Pro Bowl campaign alongside good friend Joe Haden, the strong safety was not offered a contract from a team he didn't want to leave.

Ward signed a four-year, $22 million ($14 million guaranteed) deal with the Broncos. He made his second straight Pro Bowl a year ago, and is thriving in Denver's new 3-4 defensive scheme, which emphasizes pressure. He's registered two sacks, 19 tackles and was voted the coaching staff's most valuable defender the past two weeks. Ward is the reigning AFC Defensive Player of the Week.

The Broncos lead the NFL in total defense (275.5 yards) and sacks (18). The Browns, who struggled to get defensive backs home on blitzes, rank last in yards per game (406.3).

Farmer and Pettine opted to replace Ward, 28, with Whitner, 30, in part because of the latter's playoff experience and leadership. The Browns signed the Glenville product to a four-year, $28 million ($13 million guaranteed) deal.

There were few complaints a season ago as the Browns increased their win total by three games and emerged as one of the league's best defenses against the pass.

Ward and Whitner are similar players -- physical in-the-box safeties considered better against the run than in coverage. Whitner appears a step slow this season, however, and is approaching double figures in missed tackles. In fairness, he's also coming off his best game versus the Chargers and is hardly the only Browns' defender enduring a rough start.

"If this were last year, we'd be talking about Whitner as a better signing than T.J. Ward," Tucker said. "T.J. is playing better this year and Donte is obviously playing worse. But there is another component to the Whitner thing . . . Whitner really wanted to come back and be a Brown and they recognized that and the value of that in their locker room."

Ward also is preparing for a homecoming of sorts. His Broncos travel to FirstEnergy Stadium next week when the discussion of Ward or Whitner is sure to be a talking point.

Groomed in Cleveland, excelling in New England

Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked Friday by New England media members about the play of the 26-year-old Sheard. The Hooded One was effusive in his praise.

"Jabaal has done a really good job for us, and he plays on all three downs, so he can play the run well, he's strong, he uses his hands well, he's got good length, he can rush, he's rushed inside, rushed outside, played on the tackle, played on the tight end, played some in there on the guard and some in coverage on certain adjustments we have or certain calls," Belichick said.

"He's done a good job. That's something you didn't really get to see him do in Cleveland. He pretty much always played one spot, left end, pretty much the same technique most of his career. So seeing him do different things and being able to adapt to them and as you said create depth and versatility for us has been a big plus for him and for us."

The Patriots signed Sheard to a two-year, $11 million ($5.5 million guaranteed) contract. The deal looks like a bargain given the versatility he's afforded their defense. Sheard has logged six tackles and two sacks in three games, while playing all over the formation.

His switch from defensive end in a 4-3 to outside linebacker in a 3-4 with the Browns broadened his skillset. Put another way: Sheard was groomed in Cleveland to excel in New England.

"Not only is he a guy who will get you some sacks but he's such a good role player and he can do so many things," said Thomas of a former teammate who played through a foot injury a year ago. "I was disappointed. I thought he was a good player. I like to keep our good players when possible."

An argument can be made Sheard wasn't a perfect fit for the Browns' scheme. The counter is good teams find ways to make use of good players. Edge defenders are the weakest link on the Cleveland unit and thus far the Browns have not adequately replaced Sheard.

Maybe rookie Nate Orchard emerges. Perhaps the return of Scott Solomon helps set the edge better against the run. For now, the loss of the Sheard looms large.

Room under the cap

Tramon Williams has been the Browns' best defender. The cornerback tracks well, keeps plays in front of him, gives the defense flexibility and locker-room leaderships.

Four games into his first season in Cleveland, his three-year, $21 million ($10 million) deal appears like money well spent. The former Packers mainstay, however, is also 32 years old.

The Browns have the league's third-most cap space ($23.5 million), prompting one team veteran to say: "We've got the money. Why not sign Tramon and keep Buster?"

The Browns already devote a higher percentage of cap space (45.09) to defense than any other team, according to Spotrac.com. Then again, the club would be getting more production from Skrine, 26, than Bowe, 30, who's yet to catch a pass.

Skrine was not a fan favorite in Cleveland because of his penchant for penalties, but he embodied the "Play Like a Brown" philosophy. He's feisty, fearless and blessed with a short-term memory. The coaching staff adored his work rate and his versatility. Better suited for the slot, Skrine played opposite Haden last season due to the struggles of Justin Gilbert and had a career year (four INTs, 18 pass breakups).

In the offseason, the Browns were faced with tough decisions and needed to make calculated gambles. Would Gilbert improve? Could quality nickel back K'Waun Williams shake the injury bug? Thus far, the answer to both questions is "no."

Skrine signed a four-year, $25 million ($13 million guaranteed) contract and has become the Jets' second best corner behind Darrelle Revis. Coach Todd Bowles loves to employ Skrine on blitzes and he's playing an important role in a team enjoying a surprising 3-1 start.

"If I were a GM, I'd say you could never have enough outside linebackers in a 3-4 (defense) and good defensive backs," Thomas said. " . . . Having the versatility and ability to get good players on the field is only going to make you a better team, a better defense. It's like the old high-school mantra: 'We're going to put the best players on the field regardless of the position.'"

Everyone sees clearly with hindsight. The Browns can't worry about what's in the rear-view mirror. Their focus is on the tough road ahead, which starts Sunday in Baltimore.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/should_struggling_cleveland_br.html

-- Ahtyba Rubin and Jordan Hill continue their stellar interior run defense. They are fifth and sixth in run stop rate for DTs. No other team has two DTs in the top ten.

It's good to hear that Rubin continues to produce in the area that he was brought in for. It's also a bummer that Jordan Hill can't stay healthy, because he's been really good for Seattle in the trenches.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/10/14/952...ats-of-the-week

IMO,

Letting TJ Ward go was a mistake.

Letting Buster Skrine go was not a mistake considering Williams is performing better, at least at this point, outside than Skrine did. Plus we have K'wan inside.

Letting Sheard walk was not a mistake. As many suggested, he's better in a 4-3 base, and him playing with his hands down a ton in NE and being successful at it, trends in this direction.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/top-10-free-agent-signings-through-week-4/

All three players were great draft picks for this team, but with scheme/regime changes, some just aren't a fit like they once were.

The Rubin stats this year are a huge indictment on Pettine and O'Neil. To me, that speaks to scheme.

The Sheard stuff is a big indictment too. I mean Belichek was kind of laughing at the Browns for not knowing what their players can and can't do and putting them in a position to succeed.

When I hear O'Neil talk in pressers I just want to cringe.

Another argument for continuity.

Although I absolutely despise the 3-4.

Wanted to keep Sheard the most. IMO he's way better than Kruger/Mingo/Orchard

I mean, that is a huge part of it. We've switched defenses so many times since 2008 it's unreal. Players who could be good in the scheme they were drafted to play are not as valuable anymore. DL is a huge part of that equation and when you try and build your roster in the trenches, it's that much harder.

I don't like the team's approach to our own guys. Let too many who have been developed walk. Would love to have Ward and Sheard right now. Would love to have resigned Skrine AND signed Williams. Williams would be playing ahead of Skrine, he's the better player, but you can never have too many CBs and we had the money.

Rizzo said something on the RBS this week that was interesting. He said Ward walking was 100% on Pettine. Said Pettine wanted to change the culture of losing and bring in leader types that had experience winning. Whitner and Dansby were all him and Farmer giving his coach what he wants.

I think that we miss Sheard & Rubin the most.
I don't think that we really miss Ward or any of the others as much. I think that, at worst, Ward & Whitner are a wash - it's an even trade.

Ward just got named the AFC defensive player of the week

since 2013, he's tied for most tackles for losses, already has 2 sacks this season, and has been over all the field making plays.

in what world was this swap ever a wash? Ward has been playing better than Whitner, and it isn't even close.

For Jets CB Buster Skrine, stardom isn’t name of game

Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan was shaking hands and taking pictures with well-wishers in Trafalgar Square two weeks ago when a guy with a wild shock of hair passed by without getting recognized by a soul. He was 5-9, 185 pounds, walking the streets of London with a red sweat shirt and a smile.

Buster Skrine is used to anonymity.

The cornerback spent four seasons in Cleveland before providing the Jets defense with an invaluable dimension that is impossible to ignore now.

He is Todd Bowles’ human Swiss Army knife, a versatile piece to an ever-changing puzzle that has helped the Jets to a promising start to the season. On a team sprinkled with recognizable names, Skrine toils in the background without much fanfare.

“I’m not out here for the praise. I’m just out here for production,” Skrine said in a quiet moment. “If it comes, yippee! Hooray! But if it doesn’t …”

Darryl Frank Skrine, Jr., has been Buster since the moment his grandmother bestowed the nickname on him as a baby.

He is short, stout and scrappy. He likes that word: scrappy. He knows he has the requisite skills to thrive at this level, but scrappy is a term of endearment and respect for those not blessed with overwhelming size. In a sport played by large humans, he’s actually a normally proportioned adult male.

Skrine thrives for so many reasons. He’s smart, but not too smart to brush off suggestions from coaches and teammates. Nobody in the Jets locker room consistently gives more effort.

“He has not taken a play off or loped since he got here,” Bowles told the Daily News. “You got to love that about the guy. He’s willing to do anything and everything. He’s willing to learn. He opens up. He sees things. He understands. He studies. To have that kind of player with that type of skill set, who still wants to learn and love the game, is special.”

There are a million logical reasons why Skrine should struggle. His size alone should put him at a disadvantage against bigger, stronger and faster receivers.

How can he blanket a player with a dominant wingspan and catch radius? The simple laws of physics should make this an open-and-shut case.

What could be the explanation? How has Skrine been a difference maker in Bowles’ defense?

“I have heart,” Skrine said, tapping his chest. “I’m gifted. I’m fast, I’m strong and all that good stuff, but I just compete every play. No matter what happened the play before, I’m coming back to compete the next play.”

He’s also remarkably disciplined. In an age of specialized trainers monitoring pro athletes’ every movement, Skrine’s strength and conditioning routine is simple.

For the past seven years, he’s woken up exactly at 6:30 a.m. every day in the offseason to train with his younger brother, Maurion. They head to L.A. Fitness across the street from their home in Atlanta before driving to their father’s old high school track for cardio work.

The brothers have detailed workout plans for each day.

Skrine believes that those workouts have made him faster, stronger and more agile. He insists that his 40-yard dash time is better now than when he came out of Tennessee-Chattanooga in 2011. He swears with a smile that he’s added at least two inches on his vertical, too.

“I didn’t know who he was training with or how he was training before this,” assistant defensive backs coach Daylon McCutcheon said. “All I know is that whatever he is doing is working. His acceleration, his agility, the way that he springs in and out of breaks, that’s special. I don’t know what he runs. Everyone jokes around — he runs 4.2, he runs 4.3 - I don’t know. He runs very fast. I haven’t seen a matchup yet where I feel like someone is going to run away from him. I don’t see it happening.”

McCutcheon was all in on Skrine while evaluating free-agent corners in the offseason. Bowles prioritized him too before the Jets signed him to a four-year, $25 million deal. The 26-year-old Skrine has paid instant dividends. His varied skill set has been invaluable for Bowles, who has used him outside, in the slot and as a frequent blitzer.

“He's a starter in my eyes,” McCutcheon said. “With his experience coming from Cleveland, he has a lot of starts under his belt. You don’t come in and think, ‘Oh, he’s just the next guy in.’ He’s very valuable.”

Skrine has played 83% of the defensive snaps through the first four games. He also has blitzed 18 times, tops among defensive backs in the league, with a pair of quarterback hits and four hurries, according to Pro Football Focus.

He’s an indispensable piece on one of the league's scariest defenses.

Anonymity won’t be an option for much longer.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2399504

yeah, well he wasn't that guy when he was here, and I think it'd be silly to think that just because he is doing that now in Denver that it is what we'd be getting out of him.

I don't see anything wrong with a coach wanting to change that attitude of the team.. Not sure that was the right way, but the theory is good.

It never made sense. Ward was at least as good as Whitner, younger, and had much less time in the league. It also seems like he wanted to stay.

I have not been a fan of Whitner since his days ended in Buffalo. Although Ward may have had his shortcomings in coverage, he is a step above Whitner in on-field performance. (I do not pretend to know how valuable either are in the locker room).

Anyone else thinkin' what I'm thinkin'?

Joe Thomas for GM.

Once he retires.

or Manning

He would have given Hoyer that 12 mil a year he wanted lol.

All three of them were able to go to already good defenses and have helped sustain the good defenses..

If any of them had signed with Tampa or Tennessee then they would not be seen in such good light..

Except maybe Sheard, he's a very good 4-3 DE.. We just (sadly) choose to not run a 4-3..

What? He was a playmaker for us. He never got INTs, but he was a leader and was a tackling machine. I complete disagree with you about us missing Sheard and Rubin more. They were both better off in a 4-3 defense.

Swapping Ward for Whitner was a mistake.

Who was the coach that brought in a bunch of former Patriots players? How'd RAC's teams do again? Yeah, it's a good idea in theory, but it doesn't really work like that. He should realize that as Head Coach he's the one who needs to change the culture. That's not a job to delegate.

I always found it ironic that RACs first year was his best defense he had..

The more "3-4" players he got to replace the 4-3 guys, the worse our defense got..

We supposedly signed Whitner because he was better in coverage and he was a leader.

None of us will ever understand the leader thing because we are not in the locker room.

But Whitner is now an in the box safety who should never cover anyone who is a real receiving threat. That is exactly what Ward excelled at. So now we have an older, worse, more expensive version of what we already had. And we will have to replace him soon.

It was always a weird move. Does Whitner's leadership make up for the other things we are going to lose in the long run? It seems like a very short-sighted move.

I think the probowl was the reason Ward was not signed. he went head hunting with Cameron and Gordon in that game.

Here's another thing, if the guy is a good to great player and he wants to be here-in CLEVELAND-SIGN HIM!

IMO letting Ward, Sheard, Buster, and Rubin get away were all mistakes that the front office made

exactly. ward WANTED to be in cleveland with Haden.

and he would've took the same contract we got whitner. hell, in a sense got less playing for denver.

Sheard showed potential for 4 years, time and just never took that step forward. Glad he is doing well in NE but I wouldnt have resigned him either.

Rubin's play was spotty at best last year and he really just didnt seem to desire to play the game anymore. I loved the guy's hustle over the years but again, I had no problem replacing him with Starks.

Skrine I wouldnt have paid what he wanted that simple. I do feel his biggest impact however is in his ability to support the run. I underestimated what he meant to us in that area. Cover skills we have improved but skrine was a beast making tackles. I wouldhave moved him to FS after his rookie year anyway.

Ward tackles, but he routinely blows coverage.

So either he didn't have the talent around him here to make the plays he's making now... or our coaches weren't putting him in the position to make the plays he's making now... either way, that's on us, not on him. It looks like we got rid of a talented guy because we didn't know how to use him.

According to Pro Football Focus, Ward came in at No. 34 out of 87 safeties ranked for the 2014 season. Though that puts him in the top half of the league, the Broncos would like to see him even higher.

Using those same metrics, Ward was rated as the No. 2 pass-rushing safety in the league and was tied for No. 17 against the run. That is key for Ward, who could be asked to come up and play closer to the line of scrimmage based on the defensive call.

The area where Ward will need to improve is pass coverage. Out of 87 safeties, he came in at No. 81 in terms of coverage. That won't get the job done, particularly when a team can match up an athletic tight end such as Rob Gronkowski or Travis Kelce against him.

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this year they are keeping him in the box more. just saying.....

and on that note, willie snead is playing pretty well in NO.

Whitner and Dansby were both upgrades over DQ and TW last year .... this year the whole defense looks awful so I think it's too early to say it was a mistake. But we need more than one good year out of both Dansby and Whitner for the exchange to be worthwhile.

Sheard always looked like he was in the wrong scheme and needed to be a 4-3 end.

As it happens I liked all 4 of them - DQ, Sheard, Skrine and TW .... they all played hard, high effort guys. But at the end of the day that doesn't mean that they were right to stay. Each had flaws. DQ always looked too slow and not an impact player - his first contact always seemed to be 4 yds off the line. Sheard was not a genuine 3-4 OLB. TW was great at run support - but a huge liability in coverage. Skrine was fast and tough but couldn't stop himself from giving away pass interference calls (because of his size?).

That might be because of the QB rather than on his actual merits. James Jones is looking damn fine in Green Bay, but I'm not imaginative enough to think that he would be able to produce at a fraction of that without Aaron Rodgers.

So what were Whitner's stats according to PFF ? And DQ vs Dansby?

Which is, of course, easier to do when you change coaches once every 20 years...

The Steelers have been cap hell for several years because they re-sign their players to a fault. They have a franchise QB and hit on Antonio Brown and Leveon Bell.

cfrs, if I'm following correctly, unless a guy is a cornerstone such as Hayden or Thomas we will see salary dumps.

I think we see a constant avoidance signing second contract guys. As fans, we need to challenge ourselves thinking guys are needed when actually they are average to above average or replaceable with little change with less. Ward, Sheard, and Buster are good players but look at their supporting cast. Browns will sign guys who are solid and reliable.

Gipson is a good example. A good safety, but Poyer steps in. Does anyone see a significant change? Now do you sign Gipson to a big contract? Is safety a position worthy a top 1/3 salary in the current scheme? I think fans need to look more at what makes the secondary great as oppose to what makes the free safety or second outside CB great.

On offense, knowing you'll most likely play a rookie or journeyman QB is it better to invest in OL or play makers?

Your theory would make sense, except many of the guys who have left have also been replaced by veterans. Whitner replaced Ward, T. Williams replaced Skrine, Starks provided depth on the defensive line with Rubin gone, etc.

Furthermore, we signed John Hughes and Austin Davis to extensions.

Continuity is not only important in the front office and coaching staff, but on the field with the players.