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their passing game consists of a journemen QB-TE vintage combo with an aligator arming no1 WR. The Browns have a lot of flaws, but they are tenth in the league in passing. We're also first in the league in 40+ yard plays. On this board we hear lots of people moaning about our QB situation because we should have taken Teddy Bridgewater, but Minnesota is 32nd in the NFL in passing. We should have traded for Nick Foles, but St. Louis is 31st in the league in passing. We should have signed Tyrod Taylor, but Buffalo is 28th in the league in passing. Tons of things wrong with the Browns. The odd part is that the passing game is not one of the top 5 things wrong with the Browns.
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It never ceases to amaze me how Browns fans always want "that one thing" they can point to that cost us a game.. in this case it was the 2-pt conversion... and they do this to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else that happened in the game...
Perhaps this post is more suited for the Good/Bad/Ugly thread.. but here goes.
Our offense is the first half was horrible. If you are going to throw 4 yard passes all day, you have to complete more than 30% of them. to our credit, we made some halftime adjustments and played much better in the second half.
We were running the ball fairly well in the first half but when you can't complete the 5 yard pass to get the first down, it's hard to sustain drives..
Is it just me or does McCown seem to struggle when we have a balanced offense? If we have a couple successful runs then need a short pass to move the chains he seems to be less successful. He almost seems to thrive on throwing it on every down, like it gets him into a rhythm or something.
The points off turnovers killed us. Congrats to Dansby for getting 7 of them back. Overall I thought the defense played fairly well but taking the lead and then giving it back on the very first play was a killer.
I was confused by a couple of the coaching decisions, the 2 pt conversion and having Turbin in the game in OT.. and running a sweep, which I don't remember the last time we actually ran a pitch sweep... but c'mon, nothing in there screams "Fire everybody"...
We are losing games by inches, and to good teams... that game was there for the taking and we didn't take it... it's a shame but something to build on.
yebat' Putin
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It never ceases to amaze me how Browns fans always want "that one thing" they can point to that cost us a game.. in this case it was the 2-pt conversion... and they do this to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else that happened in the game...
The points off turnovers killed us. Congrats to Dansby for getting 7 of them back.  
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jc
I guess pass blocking is the strength? I DVR'd the game. Started watching the Patriots vs. Colts right after it. Brady's pocket was so clean. I haven't seen a pocket like that from the Brown's this year. So...
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Oh yeah, one other thing... that non-call for OPI on 4th down by Denver after the non call for DPI on our 4th down had me 
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jc
I challenge to answer me this: what is the strength/identity of this Browns team? The only game I've been able to see is yesterday's but I'll give it a shot: The teams strength, appears to me to be coverage skills by linebackers.
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their passing game consists of a journemen QB-TE vintage combo with an aligator arming no1 WR. The Browns have a lot of flaws, but they are tenth in the league in passing. We're also first in the league in 40+ yard plays. On this board we hear lots of people moaning about our QB situation because we should have taken Teddy Bridgewater, but Minnesota is 32nd in the NFL in passing. We should have traded for Nick Foles, but St. Louis is 31st in the league in passing. We should have signed Tyrod Taylor, but Buffalo is 28th in the league in passing. Tons of things wrong with the Browns. The odd part is that the passing game is not one of the top 5 things wrong with the Browns. ...and I gave and continue to give a lot of credit to Flip, McCown, Barnidge and the pass blocking that leads to this ranking, but where is the upside with that? Where is the future? McCown will be 37yo next year, Barnidge and Thomas 31. Benji and Barnidge are FA. Cutting Bowe alone will cost 4.6mil next season. Even if they keep them all and they continue to play at that level into 2017 (which is highly questionable considering their track record/contract status), where is the future on the front 7? It's a total mess. They have no 3 down players behind Dansby, who will be 34 and probably regress I just don't see a lot of reason for optimism.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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He almost seems to thrive on throwing it on every down, like it gets him into a rhythm or something. I agree, DC. And I feel like it's difficult for us to put two good drives in a row together. I'm sure I'm forgetting when it does happen, but I feel like McCown is great one series, then a 3 and out, then pretty good, then 3 and out, etc. Now, that might be more play calling than McCown, but I don't know. Once he starts rolling on a drive, he seems to stay hot. But if we hit some adversity early in the drive, either McCown or Flip crap the bed.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes. we didnt score anything on 2 of those turnovers but they turned every turnover mccown had into points.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes. I agree, when your defense creates turnovers, they are doing their job... when the offense is giving them back, they are NOT doing their job.
yebat' Putin
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My Monday morning postgame thoughts as a Browns fan: 
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Find it appropriate that it is on a loop. LOL
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes. we didnt score anything on 2 of those turnovers but they turned every turnover mccown had into points. They only scored off 2 turnovers. Last interception occurred with about 50 seconds left in the 4th, Broncos didn't score off of it.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes. we didnt score anything on 2 of those turnovers but they turned every turnover mccown had into points. They only scored off 2 turnovers. Last interception occurred with about 50 seconds left in the 4th, Broncos didn't score off of it. yea. your right. i just thought they did lol. it was the disgust when they first called it a catch lol.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I waited until today to comment so I could do so without the emotion.
I saw the same team that everyone raved about the week before in the narrow win against Baltimore. I thought the praise heaped on McCown was ridiculous then, and the blame he's getting now is equally ridiculous. I think everyone wants an aggressive coach and if the gambles had paid dividends Pettine would have been called great all week; but losing changes that into calls for his head...
I think the biggest reason we continue to suck, go through all the FOs, Coaches and players is that we just can't stop expecting MAGIC to happen. All the while I see Cinci a team with a terrible head coach for years, a so so QB and many malcontents going 6-0... They are getting the MAGIC because they stick with their players, coaches and FO... We are a more talented team than Cinci, but we are nowhere near as experienced.
On the other hand I see Baltimore in the basement with a good coach, good QB and as much or more talent than we have; their fan base is losing it's collective mind right now too. They have continuity, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a very good coach, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a great GM, but sometimes it takes more than that. This year they lack the MAGIC.
However, they are much more likely to bounce back before us because they won't blow it all up, they will just be patient and bring the pieces back together, regroup and try again... the Browns don't know how to do that, and it's something we have to get better at quickly so that just maybe we can find our own MAGIC.
So, I think I will just watch the games for the rest of the season, get excited and be happy when I can but reserve my angst, ire and hate for things that matter more than football for the rest of the year. Nobody expected us to even be close to 500 this year anyway. So I say let the team, staff and FO grow and learn this year. Find the good things along the way and enjoy them; let the bad stuff go and chalk it up to learning to be a real franchise for a change.
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bottom line mccown cost us the game with his 3 turnovers. No, both teams had 3 turnovers. Both had a "pick 6". Consider it a wash and look elsewhere... You don't excuse your own mistakes just because the other team makes the same mistakes. we didnt score anything on 2 of those turnovers but they turned every turnover mccown had into points. They only scored off 2 turnovers. Last interception occurred with about 50 seconds left in the 4th, Broncos didn't score off of it. You are correct. It occurred on Denver's side of the field with :50 left on the clock with us driving for the game winning FG.... so it only FELT like we lost points because of it.
yebat' Putin
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We are a more talented team than Cinci, but we are nowhere near as experienced.
 On what planet are the Browns a more talented team than the Bengals? Name even one player that would take a starting job from a player on that team. Thomas maybe, but that's it. Punter?
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IMHO we have a more talented team than them.
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I waited until today to comment so I could do so without the emotion.
I saw the same team that everyone raved about the week before in the narrow win against Baltimore. I thought the praise heaped on McCown was ridiculous then, and the blame he's getting now is equally ridiculous. I think everyone wants an aggressive coach and if the gambles had paid dividends Pettine would have been called great all week; but losing changes that into calls for his head...
I think the biggest reason we continue to suck, go through all the FOs, Coaches and players is that we just can't stop expecting MAGIC to happen. All the while I see Cinci a team with a terrible head coach for years, a so so QB and many malcontents going 6-0... They are getting the MAGIC because they stick with their players, coaches and FO... We are a more talented team than Cinci, but we are nowhere near as experienced.
On the other hand I see Baltimore in the basement with a good coach, good QB and as much or more talent than we have; their fan base is losing it's collective mind right now too. They have continuity, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a very good coach, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a great GM, but sometimes it takes more than that. This year they lack the MAGIC.
However, they are much more likely to bounce back before us because they won't blow it all up, they will just be patient and bring the pieces back together, regroup and try again... the Browns don't know how to do that, and it's something we have to get better at quickly so that just maybe we can find our own MAGIC.
So, I think I will just watch the games for the rest of the season, get excited and be happy when I can but reserve my angst, ire and hate for things that matter more than football for the rest of the year. Nobody expected us to even be close to 500 this year anyway. So I say let the team, staff and FO grow and learn this year. Find the good things along the way and enjoy them; let the bad stuff go and chalk it up to learning to be a real franchise for a change. Quoted for Truth and Emphasis.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We are a more talented team than Cinci, but we are nowhere near as experienced.
On what planet are the Browns a more talented team than the Bengals? Name even one player that would take a starting job from a player on that team. Thomas maybe, but that's it. Punter? That team falls completely part without AJ Green. He is the only reason the offense works..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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IMHO we have a more talented team than them. I'm puzzled by this, also. Outside of the OL and maybe special teams, they have more talent in all other areas. Where else do you see them more talented? With QB, WR, TE, RB, DL, LB, DB....they pass the numbers test as well as the eyeball test.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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We are a more talented team than Cinci, but we are nowhere near as experienced.
On what planet are the Browns a more talented team than the Bengals? Name even one player that would take a starting job from a player on that team. Thomas maybe, but that's it. Punter? That team falls completely part without AJ Green. He is the only reason the offense works.. How many games was AJ out last year? They were running it down teams throats with Hill and still made the playoffs and they also had a ton of other injuries. Their depth is 100x better. Their O-Line is better as a unit no doubt about it. Also, I might not love Dalton but I'd take him over McCown any day.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
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Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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As a whole team, yes they are better..
But I think that's kind of the point,they've had the same systems for like 10 years now.. Coordinators have come and gone yes, but it's still the same system..
I think individually talent wise we can match up with them, except for guys like Green obviously..
But if we had the same Staff for 10 years it would be so much easier to find players that fit it, and bring rookies into it..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing.
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On the other hand I see Baltimore in the basement with a good coach, good QB and as much or more talent than we have; their fan base is losing it's collective mind right now too. They have continuity, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a very good coach, but sometimes it takes more than that. They have a great GM, but sometimes it takes more than that. This year they lack the MAGIC.
However, they are much more likely to bounce back before us because they won't blow it all up, they will just be patient and bring the pieces back together, regroup and try again... the Browns don't know how to do that, and it's something we have to get better at quickly so that just maybe we can find our own MAGIC. I think what makes the two situations different is in your subtle wording... they are more likely to "bounce back".. we aren't bouncing back, we are building.. for the first time. I would hope that most Ravens fans are thinking... yea, this is a very disappointing season, but Ozzie has built talented teams before, Harbaugh has coached us to the super bowl before, Flacco has proven he can play at a high level... there is a track record that says they at least know how to do it... this would inspire some level of confidence that sticking with it is the right move. Farmer, Pettine, McCown, Manziel... who on our team has a track record that says, we should stick with this because they've done it before? Keep in mind, I'm NOT advocating that we blow it up, just pointing out why I think the mindset is different and why Browns fans are far more impatient..
yebat' Putin
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing. He has at least put forth the effort in practice to be active/dress on GameDay. He has at least caught some balls, some on important downs. He has at least threw some crucial blocks for other ppl, one of Crows touchdowns be a prime example of that. And Bowe has... what? Helped show our new jerseys, an event to which he should've never been invited to in the first place. I don't see how comparing Hartline to the 9million dollar loser is going to lead to any constructive convo.
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I made mention of that in another thread .. How much $$$ have we got tied up in those two ?
Heard tell that our Defense is one of the highest payroll D's in the League ?? Our D ranks 30th out of 32 and dead last against the run ..
Last edited by waterdawg; 10/20/15 01:36 PM.
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing. He has at least put forth the effort in practice to be active/dress on GameDay. He has at least caught some balls, some on important downs. He has at least threw some crucial blocks for other ppl, one of Crows touchdowns be a prime example of that. And Bowe has... what? Helped show our new jerseys, an event to which he should've never been invited to in the first place. I don't see how comparing Hartline to the 9million dollar loser is going to lead to any constructive convo. Brian Hartline has nine catches on the season. We can talk about both him and Bowe being terrible. It is allowed. And if Bowe should have never been invited to the jersey unveiling, then Hartline was really out of place.
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing. He has at least put forth the effort in practice to be active/dress on GameDay. He has at least caught some balls, some on important downs. He has at least threw some crucial blocks for other ppl, one of Crows touchdowns be a prime example of that. And Bowe has... what? Helped show our new jerseys, an event to which he should've never been invited to in the first place. I don't see how comparing Hartline to the 9million dollar loser is going to lead to any constructive convo. You can argue about which is worse but our two big WR FA acquisitions from the offseason have a combined 9 catches for 128 yards and 0 TDs through 6 games.... it's hard to make either of them look good with that. All things being equal, had we never signed Bowe, then the focus would be on Hartline's lack of production... Bowe is actually saving him from more criticism.
yebat' Putin
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Am I misunderstanding this or are we arguing that we have as much talent on our roster as Cincinnati, and that reaching their level as a team and an organization is our objective?
On the previous page it actually appeared that was the case.
If so, then I'm goin off the wagon. I'm joining Johnny for a beer. I'm clicking on the picture of that hot chick on this page who says she wants to hook up with me.
That's it.
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Just be glad Ben Tate didn't use Bowe's agent or he'd probably still be on the team.
#GMSTRONG
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing. He has at least put forth the effort in practice to be active/dress on GameDay. He has at least caught some balls, some on important downs. He has at least threw some crucial blocks for other ppl, one of Crows touchdowns be a prime example of that. And Bowe has... what? Helped show our new jerseys, an event to which he should've never been invited to in the first place. I don't see how comparing Hartline to the 9million dollar loser is going to lead to any constructive convo. Brian Hartline has nine catches on the season. We can talk about both him and Bowe being terrible. It is allowed. And if Bowe should have never been invited to the jersey unveiling, then Hartline was really out of place. Bowe yes, seems like a waste of the money at this point, I think Hartline is more a product of the system and opportunities. He's out there, he's working. I actually was wondering why he's not in there during the goal situations where tall bigger bodies would be beneficial.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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People, rightfully, complain a lot about Dwayne Bowe. But where is Brian Hartline? He has done next to nothing. He has at least put forth the effort in practice to be active/dress on GameDay. He has at least caught some balls, some on important downs. He has at least threw some crucial blocks for other ppl, one of Crows touchdowns be a prime example of that. And Bowe has... what? Helped show our new jerseys, an event to which he should've never been invited to in the first place. I don't see how comparing Hartline to the 9million dollar loser is going to lead to any constructive convo. Brian Hartline has nine catches on the season. We can talk about both him and Bowe being terrible. It is allowed. And if Bowe should have never been invited to the jersey unveiling, then Hartline was really out of place. Bowe yes, seems like a waste of the money at this point, I think Hartline is more a product of the system and opportunities. He's out there, he's working. I actually was wondering why he's not in there during the goal situations where tall bigger bodies would be beneficial. Because Hartline doesn't get any separation. He is clearly our fourth receiver behind Benjamin, Gabriel, and Hawkins.
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Brian Hartline has nine catches on the season. We can talk about both him and Bowe being terrible. It is allowed.
And if Bowe should have never been invited to the jersey unveiling, then Hartline was really out of place. And Bowe has dressed two games and has gotten but a handful of snaps and even less of targets, each which it looked like he was mad the ball was even thrown to him. I mean all this is just IMO, but Brian is at least dressing and playing. Nine catches is better than no catches. If we are comparing them both, I think it's safe to say each are but disappointments. Each are probably way ahead of their prime and it is what it is. But we got Hartline for how much and how much did we give Bowe? That's why it bothers me. Farmer was such an idiot wasting our cap on that thing...
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Both are allowed to be bad. One is way worse than the other, but both are bad.
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I do not think it is fair to compare Hartline and Bowe. Bowe makes more money and doesn't see the field. Hartline is not getting enough targets. He catches the ball when it is thrown his way. He was never great. He's a guy. Then again, Farmer doesn't think too highly of WRs and QBs. They are not important in his world. 
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If someone told you, when we signed Hartline, that he would have only nine catches through six games, then you would say he is a failure (by you I mean every person on this board).
Bowe is a bust of epic proportions. Hartline is merely a disappointment.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387 |
If someone told you, when we signed Hartline, that he would have only nine catches through six games, then you would say he is a failure (by you I mean every person on this board).
Bowe is a bust of epic proportions. Hartline is merely a disappointment. More reasons why Farmer needs to be shown the door.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 23 Broncos 26 Post Game Thoughts
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