DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It's early, but John DeFilippo doesn't look like a rookie offensive coordinator for Cleveland Browns: Tom Reed

True masters of sarcasm need no purple.

I would understand your feelings more... if the season was over and the Browns won 3 games and showed the "O" was horrible.

At this time and seeing an effort made .. Some positive discussion and articles are okay with me..

Everything Negative is just not what I'm a fan for..

If it makes anyone feel any better, everyone will go back to calling him a clueless bumbling idiot immediately after our next loss.

Understood, but sometimes the sarcasm is obscure and leaves us with doubt...

Yes?

If the O was the reason we were losing games, I'd totally understand your feelings - and would probably echo them.

However, with the exception of the J-E-T-S game, our O has been pretty darn solid; it's the defense that has been a bitter disappointment. If they were even middle-of-the-road, we'd probably only have the JETS loss right now.

A post of mine from 1/24/15

#919514 - 01/24/15 09:41 AM Re: Mike Pettine let Shanahan leave to avoid 'dark cloud' [Re: Versatile Dog]
GMdawg Offline

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Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 15483
Loc: ohio

I don't think Shanny sucked. I believe Shanny was more of a me, me, me guy, and flip is more of a we, we, we guy. I am just saying don't be suprised if the Browns offense preforms a lot better than you think it will next season bro. fingerscrossed
_________________________
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.

Why? A winning record starts with one win. Was that THE one?

Oh, wrong number...

Don't get me wrong, I do understand what you're saying. But I think we must be honest about it. Here on a message board we talk about what we think will happen. We talk about the coaches and interject a lot of speculation into things. That's simply what happens on a message board.

But what has been happening on the O side of the ball is a surprising turn of events. You can look at the teams losses, which really is the bottom line. Yet a team is made up of different parts. The front 7 on D, the secondary, and so on.

It is a matter of fact that our O is producing well and putting points on the board that cause winning to be what should be expected. While our D is performing terribly. I have no problem giving the O kudos for what they are accomplishing.

It takes awhile for a coach to learn what he has with his team. This is especially true for a young coach and with the limits they put on practice, it just takes time. While the offense is looking decent, its not where it needs to be nor where I expect it will be.

I feel Flip wants to run a spread offense with this current team. I like him and I liked Shanny. I just wish Flip implemented a ZBS.

I prefer the blocking scheme we are in but if you dont have the big mauling interior it doesnt work. With what we have the zone scheme works better. Drive blocking only works when you have the ass to drive the DL off the line. We have quick footed angle blockers and it would be better to use the zone.

I don't feel like this article discusses his use of route trees enough.

He did... but the way it's being used and executed isn't nearly as successful as last year. I can't tell you for sure whether it's the calls or the players executing, but based on Atlanta this year, my guess is the calls.

I know we lost yday guys so don't rip on me here, but did Flip come up with and call a great game yday against, perhaps, the best defense in the game currently or what?

I think some major kudos should be given out here. I don't know the stats but we moved the ball on them.

I have a feeling this is sarcasm but I'll take it at face value. I think he did do a decent job although it's easy to second guess some of the calls late.

Actually no sarcasm, overall speaking with some bad calls here and there, I thought Flip did good.

That's fair enough. We left some plays/yards out on the field, but nobody's perfect...

Fair enough and I agree.

Thanks.

Generally speaking, I would agree... but, there are some things where he clearly blundered, I think. Especially late.

We are often accused of getting outcoached at halftime... our offense looked bad in the first half and came out in the second half much more crisp. Whatever adjustments they made worked.

The Rams defense outscored our offense today.

Good thing we wait awhile before rushing to judgement.

Also, scored three less points than the Falcons. . .

McCown has played respectably under DeFilippo, that is enough for me.

Falcons scored 10 pts against a team we put up 28 against.

We won more games than Atlanta last year. That is a fact.

They are 6 and 1. That is a fact.

We are 2 and 5. That is a fact.

Glad you are happy w/that.

Who is happy?

Probably not Kyle Shanahan.

GC.

The only thing this team needs to reboot, is the offensive line, as a group.

yep. worse o-line than the bucs last year. you can tell by mccown in 5 game have 21 sack. worse than the bucs last year where mccown had 36 sack in 11 game.......

6 points against a team that gives up 20 points per game.

Good job Flip!

Did you happen to look at Atlanta's schedule last year compared to this year? It is pretty much the opposite the Browns. It is not justifying or excusing. Browns could surely use last years schedule than this year.

I am happy Browns are making progress sad it is not there yet. Difference between a winning season and losing is microscopic. Dang that inch is hard to get. I guess that is why it is the NFL.

When you have midget wide outs that fumble every time they take a hard hit or get out muscled by a bigger defensive back, what do you expect? When you have an offensive line that has made 8 running backs look bad in the last two years, what do you expect? When you continue to sign back up quarterbacks to run a sub-par offense, what do you expect. When you have a head coach whose only answer is "we are close", what do you expect?

"We own it."

"I have to look at the tape."

"Veterans Day off!"

I actually feel bad for Pettine.

With each passing press conference he looks and sounds worse and worse.

I think he really wants to do well, but I don't think he knows how.

Dan Carpenter has as many wins in his last two games as Pettine does in his last dozen.

Pettine is a bit of a buzzword bingo guy ..."installs", "scheme", "accountability". I just think he's lost when it comes to turning words into action.

It's hard to win when your roster is lacking talent.

Yep, when you suck for so long, it takes awhile to fix.

Rams is a good example. It took Fisher four years. They are still not consistent enough making the playoffs. Funny their fans said the same "if they had more/better play makers." They downgrade their QB and beefed up their DL!

You thoughts on Gurley? You and I discussed whether he was worth a first round pick. It is is a mute point Rams took before Browns picked. I still say he looks good in a Browns uniform!

Vers for me the issue i see isnt a lack of talent but things that coaches are indeed responsible for like self discipline, penalties, form tackling, gap integrity. If we were improved in those areas our record looks very different.

I can complain about McCown lacking the ability to make winning plays but he would not be in that position if we were taking care of the little stuff. Camp Cupcake is coming back to haunt this regime.

Not to enter in you two's disagreement or discussion, so sorry, but the above comment is truth.

If you think about it, there are a lot of games where we've been flagged a boat load. And it's consistent, especially this year. As a matter of fact, other than losing, it's one of the things this team has been most consistent at...

I'm just not sure how just that aspect alone isn't addressed and cleaned up. I mean all this staff does is claim they see improvements? Where the "F" are these improvements????????? What the "F" are these improvements?

Improving at not improving? I'm lost.

I think that our roster has talent, but what we lack are those players who are real difference makers on the field. There are certain players on great teams that an opposing team has to prepare for every time they play them, and that is what we lack.

Take the Steelers. Put Roethlisberger, Brown, and Bell on our team, and we suddenly move from perennial last place team to division contender, and probably division champion. (or more)

We lack those players who change a game. We really don't have any such players on offense or defense. They are the hardest to find, (obviously) but most vital to a team's success.

The debate you and Vers are having is what I have been having internally for the past several weeks.....is it talent or coaching??

Here's how I see this team right now.....

1. We are in most every game.
2. A handful of plays/decisions have cost us those games.
3. Our D has regressed even though we have invested heavily here.
4. O has actually gotten better even though we haven't invested much at all.
5. Farmer's first round picks haven't contributed much at all.

So here is the quandary if you will.......

1. We are in most every game, but are we in those games because our talent level is close to being competitive, or is Pet just a heck of a coach who is out scheming his opponents to be competitive with inferior talent?? I've seen enough to know that offensively we are out scheming our opponent no doubt, but defensively we certainly aren't. I give this one to Farmer homers, because I don't see Pet as some genius who is managing to be competitive with a non talented roster. I've just not seen any evidence of this in the last 1 1/2 years.

2. A handful of decisions/plays have cost us games. There is little doubt imo that Pet takes some of the blame with boneheaded time outs, clock management, and the infamous 2pt conversion. However, Farmer hasn't provided ANY play-makers on offense or defense, and he has to take the blame for that. I think the foundation of the roster is fine, but we lack top flight difference makers and those are what we are missing in these close games. I blame both, but Farmer really should have gotten some difference makers with 4 frigging first rounders.

3. Our D has regressed even though we have invested heavily here. I read the Kevin Jones SI article, and have to believe this is on Pet/O'Niel. These guys are out thinking themselves and putting players in bad positions. According to the article, the players themselves have said it is difficult to adjust to this scheme because they have to think so much instead of just reacting......especially against the run. There is talent on the D, but it is undisciplined, and looks lost most of the time. I put most of the blame for this squarely on Pet.....his run Ds have always sucked because of this read the OLine scheme he is running.

4. O has actually gotten better even though we haven't invested much at all. How Pet and Flip are doing it is beyond me. We have no play-makers on the Offensive side of the ball and yet we aren't bad at all on O. I give Pet and co. every bit as much credit for the O as I do blame for the D. Farmer has not helped him here at ALL.

5. Farmer's first round picks haven't contributed much at all. Gilbert is a bust, Manziel and Irving haven't contributed much at all, and Shelton is ineffective so far. Dj is right about this......no way you can have 4 1st rounders and get this little production out of it. We now have 1 first rounder who is a major contributor since 2011 (Haden). The rest are/were garbage. That's why I don't get the regime wars........they have all sucked. Heckert landed us Taylor, Weeden, and TRich.......Banner Mingo.....Farmer the stated above. Atrocious would be to kind to characterize any of these drafts. Farmer has done a decent job of getting guys later in the draft (so did Heckert), but hasn't gotten the difference makers this team needs.

So after adding all of this up, I am of the opinion both probably need to go unless something changes between now and January. However, if I had to keep one I would side with Mour Pet seems to be in over his head. He can still change my mind, but right now without a doubt I would can him at season's end. I would Farmer as well, but if I had to keep one it would be him over Pet. I just don't see many redeemable qualities as a HC with Pet, whereas at least Farmer has hit on guys later in the draft and UDFA.