DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 6 - Rams 24 Post Game Comments

Week in, week out, year in, year out, regardless of players, coaching, management or ownership this team is a perennial loser, not worth watching, not worth spending money on and certainly not worth rooting for. Remaining this bad for this long defies logic and all odds. The entire organization top to bottom is a pathetic, ridiculous, hopeless, hapless, rotten, steaming pile of dog $#!%. And I can't even get angry about it any more. I simply don't care enough. I can't laugh, because it's not funny. I'm not sad. It doesn't evoke that type of intense emotion. The Browns have simply become uninteresting. A curious, freakish anomaly with its only entertainment value being the wonderment it generates at being so colossally awful with such unwavering consistency. Now, I simply wonder, "How long can it go on?" And I think, probably until hell freezes over. I honestly don't believe I will ever witness success with this team, never see them hoist the Lombardi. For some reason they are patently incapable of even attaining mediocrity. Vast improvement would be middle of the pact, and they are simply unable to attain those lofty heights. The Browns are losers, in every sense of the word, and there is no hope of that ever changing because they've tried everything multiple times. They are poisonous to anyone with talent or credibility therefore doomed to perpetual basement dwelling.

First off, the OP Sucks more than the Browns and that's saying something.

The "expansion" Cleveland Browns are hopeless and always will be UNLESS the damn owner hires a REAL HEAD COACH and a REAL GM!

Until then, get back to me.

I don't think you fire Pettine, I think you fire O'Neil. There is talent on our defense, they are just playing a bad scheme.

Farmer can leave tomorrow. I firmly believe he is horrible.
I read all the reports on these players, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but his drafting and FA moves are very questionable.

I didn't believe we needed a big reciever, but I was wrong. Barnidge is the only target in the red zone. They need to put Bowe on the field, and make him play. They are paying him, use him in the redzone. Not saying I even like him on the team, but he's big, and we need that.

Pettine has got to be realizing that his career is getting shorter as a head coach. He puts too much Faith in O'Neil. The defensive calls or schemes are horrible. We rush four knowing they can't get there.

They need a DC to bring in their own philosphy and leave Pettine as the head coach

First off, the OP Sucks more than the Browns and that's saying something.

The "expansion" Cleveland Browns are hopeless and always will be UNLESS the damn owner hires a REAL HEAD COACH and a REAL GM!

When that happens, you can get back to me.

Problem is we can't get a real head coach because no proven coach is going to come near this train wreck.

You're picking the date that best fits your argument.

Well he isn't picking some random span. He is picking he most recent history. True, it is cherry picking from where it starts, but it is still pretty damn relevant to demonstrate futility.

I didn't make the original post, but his logic holds up if you do lifetime.

McCown 18 wins, 37 losses

Pettine 9 wins, 14 losses

Pettine is a young coach that just might need time to learn. McCown is a proven loser. Everyone in the entire world knew that except for the Browns organization somehow.

just abysmal

9-14 looks a whole lot better than 2-10.

Anyone who read any of my posts this off-season knows how I feel about McCown.

We drafted a backup offensive lineman with a first round pick this year.

You can rail the Browns for flopping (Gilbert), or for drafting a guy who doesn't look like he's worth his value (Shelton), and another guy who for various reasons is just a headache (Manziel)...

But drafting Cam Erving where, and when you did is flat out ignorance. Maybe even arrogance too. Do you think you're the Patriots? I get that everyone wants depth on the OL, but nobody really has it. If you have 5 solid players on your line, you're probably doing alright there.

Although you can look at the roster and think that this OL is solid, and individually they might be, but as a unit, they're overrated...

I honestly wouldn't flinch if Jimmy Haslam decided to clean house, as well as pull a Cleveland Indians and start selling off talent. AW MAN BUT JOE THOMAS. Nah. I don't really care about him either. I'm also tired of the whole "how does Joe Thomas feel about it" take as if the team personally owes him something because they've been terrible.

You have a little bit of stability in having a head coach (defensive minded) and coordinator in year 2, and they look worse!...

A bunch of teams in the past few years have drafted QB's and are just starting them from the onset and letting them learn, and while those teams are still bad, they're still getting their pick at talent with high picks. Jacksonille drafted Bortles and had a high pick last spring.. Oakland drafted Carr last year and Cooper in the spring. Mariota started right away. They'll have another high pick and be able to get a playmaker for the team.

Manziel could have been that guy, who started right away and took his lumps. He screwed that up on his own, but the Browns need to really make a decision on if they are going to let him take over the position for the near future. I'm a Johnny fan and supporter, but I have no problem with them cutting him loose if they don't think he can be the guy. We have very little to go on and aren't in the building with him.

Defensively this DL is way too inconsistent. Our linebackers are slow and don't understand gaps and pursuit. I actually like a little bit of the progress they have made with Mingo, but he's still not a quality starter on a good team...

Our guys don't fly to the ball, they don't shed blocks, and the tackling is horrible. Maybe it goes back to the country club training camp. I don't know if that's a reason, but it sure doesn't look good.

I think we all saw this coming today. I didn't want to watch the game. I knew it was going to be horrible. It was a horrible game overall. The Rams basically got a free win.

I just don't understand the plan at all with this team.

I had a great day. I got up early and went and played 18 this morning because I had a lunch date with the TV.

I came home just in time for the kickoff. Had lunch. Threw it up.

Then I went a played another 18.

What fun!

I don't know how it is out by you, but here (Illinois) it beautiful out. Probably one of the last really nice Sundays we will have until April... That makes me even more angry that it was wasted watching this garbage.

It was a little chilly this morning at 8:00, around 51 but warmed up to around 65 this afternoon. Gorgeous fall day.

Got up to 85 here.

You showering yet?

Waiting for El Niño confirmation.

They can't. They need the water for the mansion lawns and golf courses.

I've finally come to a true, honest realization.

Take this team to LA. Seriously.

There is an ugly future for this team. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I see nothing to build on. Nothing that makes me want to think they'll be anything but another 3-4 win team next year. And the year after.

I'd rather have a new expansion team that has an excuse to be this awful.

Today I reached the realization that we have no hope too. I mean literally none. We're NOT young. We have no playmakers. We have no QB. We are basically screwed

This is where I am. I play the draft game every year, starting about now, and I follow the first couple rounds worth of guys pretty well. And I don't claim to know that much, but man, every year, the guys I really want end up way better than the guys we draft. Why should a weekend warrior like me, and a lot of other people on this board, see things that Farmer can't? It isn't hindsight.

I need one of those.

j/c:

Well, the last two weeks pretty much prove that those who said there was way more action after a loss than a win were wrong.

hard to get a good average on it. get so few wins compared to loss it is hard to tell.

A few things...

Gurley's stat line will be brought up, he had very little to do with us losing today.

McCown's stat line will be brought up, it looks ok but he didn't throw a pass more than 4 yards until the 3rd quarter when we were down by 2+ scores.

Remember when one of the big knocks on Manziel was his ball protection in the pocket?

We started out running the ball ok just like we did last week but after about 15 dump offs and check downs, the started sitting on shorter routes and pulling up closer to the line so we couldn't run it or throw it effectively.

OL had a rough day but most of what I saw was good scheme more than beating us one on one. McCown still needs a clean pocket for 3.5 seconds to look good. I think what was said of Weeden in Dallas applies to McCown, he's not playing poorly, but he's not making plays to win games either.

Stupid penalties, lack of discipline.

The Rams have a good defense, I get it. But I don't care. If you want to be a competitive NFL team, then you have to hold your own against other good teams.. You can't go into a freakin' shell every time you play a team with a top 10 unit.

Turn overs and penalties. Doesn't every coach drill that into teams? Can't win if you have penalties and t.o.'s.

Are you sure it was the 3rd quarter before we had a pass thrown for more than 4 yards?

Regardless, the game was there to be won by us - but to's and penalties killed us. (and in fairness, THEIR penalties kept one of our drives alive).

that might be a bit of hyperbole.. but it's not like we were stretching the defense at all.. Duke Johnson was our leading receiver well into the 3rd quarter, I do know that.

Please clarify. What is the argument I am making? I made a statement.

You are saying the Browns have been abysmal over the past twelve games. Why did you pick twelve games? Because if you picked the last thirteen games it would give Pettine an extra win. It's called arbitrary endpoints. People do it to artifically boost their argument.

Why twelve games? Why not fifteen games? Twenty? Because the last twelve games would make Pettine the worst possible.

To end this needless point; the Browns have been abysmal since '99.

j/c

I'm trying to console myself with the fact that the Browns used to look like this for an entire season. Despite the losing record, this game was an anomaly for 2015.

I really think the overtime loss to Denver damaged them. I think it got them down, and messed with their heads. That's a sign of a losing team. This game was as winnable as this team is going to see for about a month, and they couldn't take advantage of the opportunity. STL handed our team plenty of gifts that we just squandered with stupid, sub-NFL play.

I'd also like to see someone on the coaching staff initiate a system of steep, punishing fines for penalties (if such a thing is even legal). This was some of the sloppiest most undisciplined play I've seen from this team in quite awhile. It seemed like almost every flag came at a time and in a way designed to inflict maximum damage to a drive. Maddening. And inexcusable.

Teams with inferior talent need to maximize their chances by playing cleaner, smarter ball than better teams, if they are to have ANY chance of a win. You can't win if you make stupid mental mistakes and spot the other team 10 points in the first 15 minutes.

Mentally fragile.
Undisciplined.
Willing to play just slightly BENEATH the competition... every week.



Two other thoughts:

1. The only thing that MIGHT shake this team out of its funk is to grit out a game like last week's for a big win. I think they're playing with the same mind set that so many fans have: "Hey! something went right! So what's gonna happen next?" That will kill a team... and a season.

2. This team had better play that game soon, or here's the book that will get written on them: "The Browns will fold if you hit them in the mouth in the 1st qtr. They'll crack a little... and then beat themselves with their own mistakes."


And you guys don't know how exhausted I am to see My Team always seem to fit that profile.

Clem, you're a good man. After reading your post, I surmise you are in the denial stage of the 'The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief'.

We've all been there.

j/c

I slept on it before posting. Mental errors, off side and holding penalties, along with turnovers root cause losing this game.

Looking at the overall numbers, see details I posted in Good, Bad, and Ugly, show Browns were in play to win.

I see Rams about a year ahead of the Browns. It took Jeff Fisher 4 years getting Rams to where they are now.

To me, Browns doing way to much thinking. During the week they spend more time fixing less preparing. It is the nature of the beast. They get closer but other teams get closer too. It is why it is so hard making ground when level of talent in the league is so great.

Geez. What is it with the 'fire everyone' or 'the greatest' attitude on this board? Here is what I saw with this game.

Turnovers. They killed us. Every time we got something good going, someone dropped the ball.

No pass rush. 1 sack again. We beat the hell out of opposing QBs the second after he releases the ball, but not before. Most of the time, we rush 4 guys, and they aren't making it to the QB.

No run game. Still no run game. Please find a run game. None of the 3 RBs can run?

Defense gouged by the outside run. This has happened all year. Someone is playing out of position on the outside, and they are too far inside when a run bounces out.

Defense missing RB screens. Another all year problem that still needs to be fixed. Which LB is supposed to watch for the RB sneaking out of the pocket? I sure as hell haven't seen him much this year.

McCown. Just how bad did he hurt that elbow when he hit the wall? I noticed a lot shorter passes after that, until he was forced to throw long balls because we were way behind in score.

PI call late in the game. Are you kidding me!?!?!?! The Browns defender, Desir I think, was turned toward the ball, and the WR never looked back. The ball was short, and the flag was thrown on the defense. If anything, that was OPI. What a horrible call. There were some really crap holding calls too, like the one on Barnage on a long run. There was a bad one on Thomas too. Yes, he planted his guy in the ground, but he shoved him there instead of dragging him there.

Offensive penalties. Please learn to count guys!!!!

If you think Gurley had "very little to do" with the Browns losing, then we watched two different games. If you meant any dime a dozen RB would have done that to us? Then you're right, and they already did in past weeks

Now to McCown. When your only physical receiver is a journeyman 30yo TE, then this isn't on McCown, it's on whoever constructed this roster. Benji is a wuss, always was, it has been confirmed again. He's at best a pure stretch the field WR2, but he always was more of a WR4/RET to throw some bombs to 2-3 times a game and give a turnaround play to.
Remember the long pass 1on1 to Gabriel? If the Browns have a true no1 WR there, like pretty much any team nowasays has, he has a good shot to get that jump ball, but not Gabriel or Hawkins and much less Benji. They need to be wide open or be hit in stride to make it work and that's more difficult to do the further down the field you throw to. Flip is doing the best he can to get them the ball in these situations, which includes a lot of quick throws by default. It's talent/construction that is dictating the play calling, the Browns are limited by lack of receiving talent, especially going against an aggressive front 7. They had 1on1 matchups all day even on shorter "jump ball" situations to the sideline, but you just can't throw them to our midgets or the unphysical Benji. It feels like every 2nd INT the past 3-4 years was a throw to Benji, he never fights for contested balls.

As for turnovers, McCown has turned the ball over 8 times, getting unlucky with his fumbles losing 5 of 6 (career 19 of 55 prior to that).

McCown has fumbled or got INT 9 times in 241 dropbacks
Manziel has fumbled or got INT 5 times in 49 dropbacks

You do the math

Regarding the roster:

During the SD/Oakland game yesterday, Steve Tasker talked about Oakland's plan. It went something [maybe exactly] like this:

Draft impact players and play them.

What a novel concept.

Just a ton of self inflicted wounds.. One mistake after another.

Geez...

j/c:

That game was a train wreck. No fire. No heart. Just blah. Most of the main points were already addressed but these are some things I'll be looking for next week regarding personnel.

Cam Erving came in for Greco towards the end of the game. I didn't remember hearing anything but did Greco get injured? It was only for 7 snaps so probably not a big deal. We'll see next week.

Nate Orchard saw the most snaps of any LBs. Kruger's snaps have diminished lately. I feel like A. Bryant is our best option at having a pass rushing LB right now. That's not a good thing needing to rely on a 7th rounder.

I'm liking Kirksey's progression as ILB. Still has aways to go but he is always around the ball making plays.

Might as well commit to Turbin as the starting RB. He's the only one I can see that can legitimately run between the tackles on a regular basis. Crowell has his moments but they're few and far between.

Hopefully Haden and Gipson can come back this week.