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A fresh thread on Johnny Manziel.

It's time to see what he can do as an NFL QB. McCown hasn't been awful but weve got to see what we have.

I agree, but this thread is going to be a disaster.

Yes, please start him.

There shouldnt even be a debate on the subject. its time to go all in with Johnny and he either sinks or swims. I believe the kid is the answer, if I am wrong, we need to know.

Yes, if for no other reason than to show Josh some mercy...

If Manziel comes in and plays lights out, it will be the death knell for Pettine for me.

Because we are the Browns, I am expecting Manziel to be very bad.

Thing is, and i respect Pet for it, is that When he hired Flip and O'Connel they came up with their plan of success for Johnny and part of that was for him to spend the year in the classroom learning how to be a an NFL QB. I believe its why Pet kept with the Josh is our QB in preseason and camp even though Johnny had been playing better. It is part of the reason they went back to Josh after the one week of Johnny when he played really well against the Titans.

They had a plan and have tried to stick with it but I believe it is time to go all in and hopefully Johnny is the QB I have pimped him to become.

I can agree with that. It will just be a tough pill to swallow.

Agreed. I am pretty sure we have atleast 3 more wins right now if Johnny started the season day 1.

I don't know about that. McCown played pretty well in some of our losses.

I don't even know if Manziel is/will be good. I just know we need to find out before the end of the season and we need a pretty large sample.

I think McCown played well too, but he never seems to do enough to win and plays to the level of the competition. JMHO

Wouldn't it be pretty typical if Johnny is named the starter and then is suspended by the NFL?

I say make Bowe play QB and run the wildcat every single time

Agreed. He's too old to be taking that kind of beating.

I want Manziel to start, but I also want him to succeed.

He won't with this offense. Let him sit, and fill-in when McCown does stuff like run into walls injuring himself.

Draft Manziel some playmakers, get Gordon back, and lets see what Johnny Bandziel can do!!!

Think he needs more time to get his personal life together.

Man Mourg, you're absolutely losing your mind with this mancrush of yours. Every comment is strictly McCown/Manziel related. The Browns lose because they have a crappy roster. We're getting the best QB play since 2007. Can Manziel stop the run as a NT, ILB too? Or rush the passer? Or have any instincts at FS? Or be a go to WR? Or be a workhorse RB? Or be a decent lead blocking FB?

QB is like WAY DOWN on the list of Browns problems right now. It's still the biggest long term, but for this season, it's Farmer's and Pettine's mess of a roster construction and talent.

Sure, get Johnny in, so that everybody gets to see where the real problems are

Johnny Manziel, set to be questioned by NFL, might be Browns starter: 'I hope people haven't given up on me'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on October 25, 2015 at 7:23 PM, updated October 26, 2015 at 6:50 AM

ST. LOUIS, Mo. -- Johnny Manziel might have to start next week against the Cardinals because of Josh McCown's shoulder injury -- providing he's not suspended by the NFL by then for his domestic incident on Oct. 12.

The NFL has scheduled an interview with Manziel, but the date and location of that meeting is not yet known, a league source said.

After the 24-6 loss to the Rams, during which Manziel replaced McCown with 3:26 left, Manziel addressed his domestic incident for the first time, but declined to go into detail.

The NFL has been investigating and could fine or suspend him under its personal conduct policy. It could also discipline him under the substance abuse policy if he's in the NFL's program.

"Obviously it's a situation that's ongoing with the league,'' said Manziel, who declined to acknowledge that the interview has been set up. "If the NFL does reach out to me, I'll fully cooperate with anything they ask me. I'm not shying away from that. I cooperated fully with Avon, I cooperated fully with everybody in the Browns and anybody that's asked me anything. We'll see in the upcoming weeks.''

The NFL will ask him about his admission of having two drinks several hours before a witness called 911 to report that he was speeding down the berm of the highway at about 90 mph and crossing erratically over lanes and about allegations in the police report that Mike Pettine acknowledged were 'disturbing.'

Crowley told police that Manziel hit her a couple of times and shoved her head into the window of the glass. But she later said he didn't harm her and that she didn't want to pursue charged. An abrasion on her wrist was from Manziel trying to keep a drunken Crowley from exiting the moving vehicle, the couple said.

He declined to say if the accusations of domestic violence were true.

"When the (NFL investigators) do come, if anything like that happens, I'll fully cooperate with them and give them exactly what happened that day for my side of the story,'' he said. "(But) I feel like we let an opportunity slip away, so that's really what I want to focus on.''

Manziel seemed more eager to return to the starting role than worried about the NFL's probe.

"I hope I still have some love in the city of Cleveland,'' Manziel said. "I hope people haven't given up on me. I'm trying to do the right things on the field, just trying to keep my head down and just keep plugging and keep pushing and keep trying to gain back what I felt I lost last year in a rough rookie season.

"That's all I'm really doing right now....making the most of my opportunities when I do get in there.''

McCown will undergo further exams on Monday, but said after the game, "obviously it's sore.'' He also had his head slammed to the turf on several occasions, and at one point spent 10 seconds on the field holding his head in his hands.

Despite sitting out the Titans game in week two with a concussion, McCown wasn't checked for one during the game, but medical personnel decided to do so afterwards. He was cleared and permitted to conduct his post-game interview. But he got dressed slowly and walked gingerly to the interview room. At the podium, he was barely audible and seemed to be in great pain.

Coach Mike Pettine acknowledged he's concerned about McCown's shoulder and also said Manziel would be the starter next week if McCown can't go.

With the game out of reach -- after the Browns lost four fumbles that were converted into 17 Rams points -- Manziel completed 4-of-5 attempts on his lone drive for 27 yards. He earned an 89.2 rating.

"It was tough watching Josh go down like that,'' Manziel said. "He took a really hard shot three or four plays prior to that that I thought he was going to stay down on. But it's obviously tough going in when a friend of yours, a guy you care about like that, get knocks around a little bit, so hopefully he's alright.

"I haven't gotten a chance to check on him yet but I just had a weird feeling last night that with the way this defense was, the way the d-line was, that something like that might happen so I was more than prepared. I was pretty excited to get back in there. Obviously it was late in the game but nevertheless it felt good to get in.''

Manziel said he's 100% prepared to take over if McCown can't go. Sunday's appearance marked his first since he beat the Titans in week two with touchdown passes of 50 and 60 yards to Travis Benjamin.

"Yeah, 100%,'' he said. "Obviously earlier in the year I got a chance to start, come in whenever Josh was out and did some good things and then since then haven't gotten a chance to get back on the field, but obviously I've been continuing to shore up everything, continuing to learn.

"If Josh goes out or he's out for an extended period of time, I think I'll be able to step in and try to make something happen.''

Guard John Greco seemed to think Manziel might be the guy, at least for the Cardinals game.

"He's our starting quarterback right now,'' said Greco. "We're fortunate to have him and his ability to read the offense and help us win. If Josh McCown is out, he'll be in there for a full workload next week and we'll go on to Arizona after we clean up these mistakes.''

Manziel, who spent 10 weeks in an addiction treatment center in the offseason, appreciated that the Browns stuck by him and didn't bench him in the aftermath of the incident -- something for which Pettine has taken plenty of heat. However, the Browns are awaiting the NFL's ruling before determining how to proceed.

"I love this organization,'' said Manziel. "These guys, from Mr. (Jimmy) Haslam to Ray Farmer, to coach Pettine, to everybody, they've treated me incredible, they've stuck by me going into the off-season through some rough times. This is the place I got drafted, this is the place that means a lot to me and I still have a lot that I want to prove and a lot that I want to do.

"I haven't been in the league very long, haven't made a very big impact, but I know I'm hopefully getting some chances this year before the season's over to try and get out and make something happen.''

Manziel said he was able to focus on football these past two weeks despite all the national media attention over the incident, including the DashCams being released to the media on Monday.

"Absolutely. I find solace in that building,'' he said. "I find a sense of peace being around the guys that we have on this team. And I feel like the way that I'm treated in the building, the way that I'm treated when I'm there. I love it. I love the guys that we have on this team.

"So when I'm in the building, when it's work time, I'm extremely excited to be in there. I'm extremely excited to be going to work every day. I was able to stay focused and be prepared as I would any other week.''

Manziel disputed the notion that he's lost focus since the Browns went back to McCown for the Oakland game after he was cleared from his concussion.

"Obviously it was a little disheartening,'' he said. "But I think Josh came in and he bounced back very well. You look at what he did in San Diego, Baltimore, Oakland. Denver, we're 10 yards away from kicking that field goal to go ahead and win that game.

"So Josh did some really good things, and then today, looking at minus two or minus three or whatever it was in the turnover ratio, you're not going to win a lot of games like that in the NFL. So I trusted in coach Pett. I hoped and thought that I might get a chance to come in sometime down the road later in the season, didn't know when it would be but whenever it came I'm excited to get back out there and it felt good to be back in the huddle today.''

Last season, Manziel seemed to go off track when he wasn't playing, and by the end of the season, he was disciplined after oversleeping for treatment the day before the season finale. Before long, he was checking himself into the Caron addiction treatment center. He denied straying like that this year.

"It was tough to go back from being the starter, getting all the reps, and going back into being in a backup role,'' Manziel said. "(But) I think I handled it just fine and adjusted just fine. I've learned a lot from the position I've been in these past couple weeks with Josh being there. I think my football knowledge and football IQ has gone up more this season being with this staff and being with Josh and especially having Austin (Davis) in the room as well.

"Even though I'm not playing, even though it's disappointing, I'm continuing to learn more and more about this game, more and more about the position that I didn't know in years past. That's all you can ask for in the role that I was in.''

And now, it appears he's in an entirely different role -- if the league allows it.

Agree 100%. I am hoping that by now reality has settled in with the rest of the board that the playoffs aren't happening for us. We need to see if we have to look for a new QB next year or not, as it seems we will be in a good draft position.

We are bad, and I cannot pin that on McCown. He has been better than I thought and I will give him credit for that. To think that we would have more wins with Manziel at the helm is just .... I don't know ... crazy.

I want to touch on something that you and Dj brought up.

We are NOT losing because of inferior qb play. McCown is playing way better than I ever thought he would play. Inserting Johnny is NOT going to make us a playoff team this year.

With that said, I have been trying to say that this team wasn't a playoff team for quite awhile now. That is why I started the thread about The QB Position in 2016--2017. My point was what the heck did we really have to gain by starting a 36 year old qb on a team that had so many holes?

Minnesota, Jax, and Oakland all started their rookie qbs last year. They took some lumps, but they learned on the job. This year, every one of those teams have improved. And Oakland went out and got their qb some real difference makers on offense to help w/the process.

We take a NT who is not making a difference and a back-up offensive lineman.

I think Farmer is clueless. I think we need to play Johnny, just like I said we should BEFORE the season, and we need someone who can evaluate talent as we move forward.

McCown is possibly out. He has played better at times and overall than I had expected.
New franchise record game shouldn't be overlooked. JM is next up; whichever way the NFL goes, I hope they do it quickly, setting it aside or penalizing. But who is the next backup?

I have wanted JM to succeed. McCown has bought him time. It is a luxury we no longer have. A more aggressive bench would help. Leaving our stupidity in the locker room as far as penalties would help as well. These "little things" we are correcting after weekly losses bug me. Don't see it. Not coaching them out.

Battled and smash mouth should no longer be terms allowed IMO.

we also need somebody who can develop talent and actually coach.

stop giving pettine a pass. the lack of execution and all these penalties fall on pettine. our defense getting worse falls on pettine.

him and Farmer both are trash.

anyway, I'd start Manziel. For giving us the best chance to win, McCown fumbles the same, if not more than Manziel does/would.

McCown is not and will never be the long term answer. It's time to see what Manziel can do for here on out. Going into the 2016 season not knowing what Manziel is while we are thinking about burning another draft pick on a QB will be a disaster.

and THAT will fall on Pettine for not pulling the trigger.

Minnesota, Jax and Oakland all had better QB's from day one than Johnny was from Day One. I'd have expected them to start. Johnny couldn't beat out Hoyer. Didn't deserve to start last season and frankly, the way that McCown is playing, I'd not want Johnny over him if I could help it.

McCown has been playing pretty darn good. I certainly dont pin our losses on him.

That's not why I think JF should start. I can't find much fault with McCown or the way he has played but I just think we need a clear idea of JF when we head into the offseason - as for Farmer and Pettine, that's for another thread.

We dont, but the coaches do. Can they tell from practice?

Johnny Manziel? Oh, you mean off field distraction heaven? Oh how we're ever so lucky to have a fresh thread on him.

Until 2-3 weeks ago, I was one of the guys that wanted Manziel to play so we could "see what we had", and make an informed evaluation for 2016. Someone suggested that Mike Pettine knows what he has already, and that was why he was playing McCown this year, along with preferring Hoyer last year. The more I thought about it, the more I believe Mike Pettine knows what we have in Manziel - we have a backup QB that can't see the field unless the journeyman in front of him gets hurt.

No offense bro but at this point I can't even trust pet to evaluate defensive players, much less the QB.

They better start Johnny. We have TNF and MNF coming up. We can't parade a two win team with Josh McCown as the QB out there. The NFL and/or Haslam won't allow that, will they?

No offense, but who gives a rat's ass what the NFL wants? I only wish we still had Doug Pederson or Ken Dorsey to give them for their precious MNF telecast.

I think Army was using dark humor.

Yeah, I figured he was. But I also think there's some fans here that are all-consumed with what "NFL nation" thinks of us, while I do not care at all.

It's ok, our next 3 games are in stadiums with thicker padding on the retaining walls.

I would probably start Manziel too... McCown has had flashes and put up big numbers on occasion and I don't really blame him for where we are, but let's be honest, he's not taking us anywhere this year or any year... At least switching to Manziel would keep me interested for a few more weeks, if for no other reason, curiosity

Not that it matters at this point, but McCown isn't the reason we are losing. No, he didn't have a good game yesterday.. But damn, we gotta learn how to hang onto the ball...

When the game is on the line, winners find a way to win and losers find a way to lose and most of our loses have been at the end of the game and our QB made a really stupid decision with the football. McCown has played well but he isnt a QB you want with the ball to finish things.

Stare down the safety and then throw it right to him in Oakland. I am about to get hit, let me throw it up for grabs here in overtime against the Broncos.

I think not having a guy that will make plays to finish a team is one of the top items holding this team back. Winners inspire.

Besides, with Johnny on the pines, I dont get to read your brilliant breakdown of why those 55 yard bombs that hit receivers in the hands were really bad plays by our QB.

I didn't see the game... I was in Indy for the Colts/Saints game... It sounds like Josh took a beating from reading the board.

I agree it's time to start JM.. I'm most interested in seeing how his elbow holds up over a few starts and playing the whole game..

He was under pressure a lot. Part of it is that the Rams have some very talented rushers, part of it is that Josh holds the ball for 3.5 seconds and doesn't move well in or out of the pocket.

McCown does earn us some great roughing the passer calls to extend drives.

If Johnny gets suspended we may end up starting Austin Davis. Who knows he may surprise us.