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Do you mean his record before he injured his shoulder? lol

He played very well long enough to take two separate none dysfunctional teams to the playoffs in 2 consecutive years after he was dumped by Jr.

That list looks so bad partially because the Brown's have never had a veteran starting QB to mentor and to help develop the drafted QB's early on. None of our drafted QB's since 99 have had a quality veteran starting QB to mentor them.

Ha Ha ...More proof

Yeah, what was his record before he got hurt?

Hasselbeck has 2 of their 3 wins right?

So we are not including his first three years, when he went 33-15, with a bag of beans for a supporting cast?

Another update:

NFL on Johnny Manziel: 'The review has not been completed'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._social_feature

By Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland.com on October 29, 2015 at 1:47 PM, updated October 29, 2015 at 2:58 PM

BEREA, Ohio -- The NFL's review of Johnny Manziel's domestic incident "has not been completed" despite a report by NFL Network's Ian Rapoport that the quarterback isn't expected to be disciplined, a league spokesman told cleveland.com.

Manziel's Oct. 12 incident involving his girlfriend, Colleen Crowley, is still being reviewed under the personal-conduct policy, and there's no way of knowing yet which way the league will go.

Coach Mike Pettine said the Browns anticipate a resolution, but possibly not before Sunday's game against the Cardinals. He also said that the NFL did not talk to him Wednesday night when it came to the Browns facility Wednesday night to interview Manziel.

"Expect it soon, but I know that they have their timetable,'' said Pettine. "I know there's reports out there, but, especially from a coaching standpoint, we're hunkered in preparing for the game, so when we get the word, we get the word."

He added, "I've had no direct communications to that extent."

Manziel met with NFL senior advisor Lisa Friel, a former Manhattan prosecutor, on Wednesday night at the Browns facility in Berea, sources told cleveland.com. He was represented by NFLPA attorney Heather McPhee, who won Ray Rice's appeal of his indefinite suspension by the NFL for his domestic violence incident.

The Browns are preparing Manziel to be active for Sunday's game against the Cardinals, either as the starter or the backup. Josh McCown returned to practice Thursday on a limited basis with his shoulder and rib injuries, and expects to start, a league source told cleveland.com.

Bag of beans? The only years that they haven't made the playoffs since the Browns have been back were 2001 and 2011.

He didn't exactly show up to a bare roster.

They had 5 Pro Bowl guys last year alone.

Yes. He actually did. Which is why Bill Polian was fired. Ryan Grigson then destroyed the roster even further.

Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, Vontae Davis, Mike Adams, Pat Macafee, Adam Vinatari, Robert Mathis, Matt Overton, Atoine Bethea, Dwight Freeney, Ernie Sims, any of those names ring any bells?

And those are just the ones I can think of.

You mistakenly listed the punter and kicker.

Ernie Sims?!?!?

Mike Adams is average at best.

I didn't know who Matt Overton was, so I looked him up. Long-snapper.

Freeney had five sacks the only season he and Luck were teammates.

You must be joking.

The Colts 2012 is a complete disaster.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2012_roster.htm

All 3 have went to the Pro Bowl playing with Luck I believe. Unless you think Luck somehow makes special teams better I think that might be relevant.

The same year Freeney only got 5 sacks, didn't Mathis also get another 15?

Mike Adams (former Brown) was a Pro Bowl alternate for the Colts and so was D'Quell. I forgot to mention him.

Ha Ha... more proof, Hasselbeck is a damn good QB. Better than any we have.

Tell me about I was accused of attacking the kid by you even and I was the first one to stick up for him last year, and after this crap lol I don't like it when he gets bashed for no reason or fault of his own. I don't like it when he gets praised when he does not deserve it. I just want to see him treated fairly and judged on the truth.

Yo brother could you please point out to all of us what Josh has done to cost us wins, and compare that to what the defense has done to cost us games?

so you dont think those 5 turnovers in the last 2 games from mccown had something to do with us losing huh? amazing

3 Ints in 6 games. ahh nope.

oh. thank god you told me that when mccown fumbles the ball it doesnt count as a turnover. stupid me.

It does, 1 fumble in 6 games

Debating with someone who drops the names of kickers, punters, and long-snappers when discussing the talent level of a team is probably a fruitless exercise.

Three Pro Bowlers and that's funny cause you did click like on the post.

I'm sorry guys, I'll butt out so you can go back to thinking up reasons that we can bench the QB that's playing well and put the coke addict back in.

ok. but its not 1 fumble in 6 games. its 5 fumbles in 6 games and 5 turnovers in the last two.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3609/josh-mccown

ESPN only says 1.

ESPN only says 5. you say one lol.

15 of the last 18 posts is a perfect example of the simple-minded bickering that leads to why this board is so hard to read.

I see where I misread it now.

OK 5 in 6 games. You do realize that our last 2 games happen to have been against the 2 best d lines in the NFL and Denver probably has the best defense in the NFL?

Are you saying Manziel weighing a little over a buck fifty isn't going to fumble when he gets hit?

not at all. just saying mccown cost us the last 2 games. nothing more or less.

5 turnovers in two games against the best defense in the NFL, and one of the top Defenses in the NFL Yep I agree that sucks. Now compare it against the rest of the results of the QB's who played against them and all of a sudden it looks a hell of a lot better. Now lets compare our comments. Did i brag on Josh when he set records for 300 games three weeks in a row, and 457 yards in a regular season game? Oh hell no and you could die of old age at 3,000 years old and still not find any evidence where I EVER SAID THAT. YOU HOWEVER HAVE A AGENDA AND CAN'T BACK UP ANY OF THE CRAP YOU HAVE BEEN SPOUTING ALL YEAR.

So do you and neither can you.

Saying, "I know people" proves nothing.

crap? like when i said he would make our o-line look like crap? like when i said it was going to be like playing in the redzone all game? like when i said his poor decisions were going to cost us games?

what of these are not true?

Your right bro but there are folks around here that know I am speaking the truth. and for those who doubt me.... well feel free to doubt me. As I said before I would rather be called out as a know nothing than to out a source, so go ahead and call me that and I will not argue with you.

As I told pblack buddy I won't argue with you on that point.

I got your back Bro.

If these punks don't wanna know forget 'em.

All QBs fumble when they get smacked in the back. I'm pretty sure people are arguing at this point because it's the internet and so easy to troll our depressed fan base.

#jff

perfect example of the simple-minded bickering that leads to why this board is so hard to read.

pretty sure i never said anything about you knowing people at the browns. dont think i would for the simple fact that it would not matter. i am not sure any one in the FO or coaching staff know what they are doing so why would it matter what they say?

jc:

What a dumb*** series of posts, excluding the reports. Pre K level.

"It's my ball."

"No, it's my ball."

Goodness!!!

I said this on another thread, but man, it sure seems like most posters would rather bicker mindlessly than have an intelligent conversation.

What cost us the last 2 games was only getting 3.3 yds a carry on the run, allowing the opponents 4.6 and 6.1 yds a carry, committing 179 yards in penalties, failing to manage the clock correctly, poor play calling in the 2 minute drill and tackling like little school girls.

I will say that we have improved a bit against the pass in the last 2 weeks.

well some.... not all but some of the o-line penalties can be laid right at mccowns foot too. some of the holding calls from him holding the ball... making sure the o-line is on the same page cause some of the false starts.

the run game? well when most your passes are only 5 yards through the air doesnt help the run game. but sure do make your passing stats look good.

not saying mccown is the only reason but in 3 of our 5 loss he is the main reason. jmo.