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So basically you want to trade any player who is at least decent and go with a bunch of young guys.
I'm speechless No, I think I was pretty clear in my posts. I wouldn't trade JT or Dansby or Greco or Haden. Just the one's that wouldn't return anyway. And no, I don't want to go with a team full of rooks, I want a full blown rebuild of the roster, that includes smarter FA veteran signings.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I don't want Ray Farmer making any more personnel moves for the Browns. Dave's comment seems like snarky remark, but I think he is absolutely correct. Look, many of us will admit that Farmer's drafts have been disappointing, but let's look at some of his FA moves. Disappointing is putting it mildly. The drafts have blown. Hitting on more late rounders and UDFAs than the other guys does not come close to offsetting the sodomizations that are his early round picks.
He brought in Williams, who Dj mentioned moving, but let a younger Skrine walk.
I'm OK w T Williams. He's done OK. We could have kept Buster as well, probably. But that would have kept Gilbert from making it to the field. Oh, wait ...
He brought in Bowe, an older WR for big money.
Completely senseless move. Bowe has the best gig in the NFL. He's been active for what, two more games than I have been? I thought this would have been his worst move. Not even close. McCown has exceeded my expectations. This move falls under the blind squirrel theory.
He let Sheard walk and replaced him w/an older guy in Starks.
Hated to see Sheard go. Really hate to see him do well for NE.
He brought in an older Ben Tate last year.
Turned out to be a Bowe-esque move. Or maybe Bowe was a Tate-esque move. Whatever ... just another notch in Farmer's white cane.
He thinks Turbin is the answer at RB.
We need one, that's for sure. Crowell's average these last games can be measured in inches.
He let guys like Winn and Kitchen go and replaced them w/whom?
Meder, Cooper, Shelton ... oh, I get your point
He has made comments about finding a qb by taking a late round Spread qb and revolutionizing the position.
I do NOT want this guy making any more significant moves for this team. It's way too dangerous.
I wouldn't trust him getting me lunch at Jimmy John's
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So basically you want to trade any player who is at least decent and go with a bunch of young guys.
I'm speechless No, I think I was pretty clear in my posts. I wouldn't trade JT or Dansby or Greco or Haden. Just the one's that wouldn't return anyway. And no, I don't want to go with a team full of rooks, I want a full blown rebuild of the roster, that includes smarter FA veteran signings. Trading Mack, if he is willing to waive his no trade clause, makes a lot of sense. We just drafted his replacement in the first round. It seems pretty obvious that he's not coming back.
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Trading Mack, if he is willing to waive his no trade clause, makes a lot of sense. We just drafted his replacement in the first round. It seems pretty obvious that he's not coming back. Seems apparent that we don't expect Mack to return. But whether Erving goes to OC or RG with Greco as OC, who knows. If Mack was a valued pick at #20, isn't Erving also a valued pick at #19? I understand, but don't agree with, the "hate" for the Erving and Shelton picks...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I see no problem in trading players that won't be on the team next year. I see no way Mack is on the team next year. He already tried to leave once, we can't tag him, and we drafted his replacement in the first round. It will never happen, but I would do it in a second.
The Colts offensive line is a disaster, one would think they would be willing to give up a pretty good pick for Mack (even if he is a rental). Same goes for the Broncos and Seahawks. Again, Mack can't be traded.....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I see no problem in trading players that won't be on the team next year. I see no way Mack is on the team next year. He already tried to leave once, we can't tag him, and we drafted his replacement in the first round. It will never happen, but I would do it in a second.
The Colts offensive line is a disaster, one would think they would be willing to give up a pretty good pick for Mack (even if he is a rental). Same goes for the Broncos and Seahawks. Again, Mack can't be traded..... he can be if he agrees to it.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I understand, but don't agree with, the "hate" for the Erving and Shelton picks... Hate is a convenient word people use when they really don't have an argument. What hate? People are unhappy w/the picks thus far because the players have been disappointing on the field while guys drafted below them are playing better. It's not hate. It's evaluating each pick. The issue w/Farmer is that when we evaluate all his moves, there are far more bad moves than good moves.
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I understand, but don't agree with, the "hate" for the Erving and Shelton picks... Hate is a convenient word people use when they really don't have an argument. What hate? People are unhappy w/the picks thus far because the players have been disappointing on the field while guys drafted below them are playing better. It's not hate. It's evaluating each pick. The issue w/Farmer is that when we evaluate all his moves, there are far more bad moves than good moves. And that is why I used quotation marks. It was used simply as a means to consolidate the varied negative opinions that have been expressed.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions.
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 10/27/15 09:45 AM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I see no problem in trading players that won't be on the team next year. I see no way Mack is on the team next year. He already tried to leave once, we can't tag him, and we drafted his replacement in the first round. It will never happen, but I would do it in a second.
The Colts offensive line is a disaster, one would think they would be willing to give up a pretty good pick for Mack (even if he is a rental). Same goes for the Broncos and Seahawks. Again, Mack can't be traded..... Again, Mack can waive the no-trade clause if he wishes.
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I see no problem in trading players that won't be on the team next year. I see no way Mack is on the team next year. He already tried to leave once, we can't tag him, and we drafted his replacement in the first round. It will never happen, but I would do it in a second.
The Colts offensive line is a disaster, one would think they would be willing to give up a pretty good pick for Mack (even if he is a rental). Same goes for the Broncos and Seahawks. Again, Mack can't be traded..... Again, Mack can waive the no-trade clause if he wishes. But would he be willing to redo his contract? No one will trade much value for him just for the rest of this season and if I was him I would not give up my opportunity to be a FA and sign where I want to be.
#GMSTRONG
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Mack actually is the one that makes sense but I would fire you if you did it for a 6th 7th rounder.
Benjamin keep, Barnidge - interesting cause he is a FA after this season.
These guys are not going to fall into the trap of playing for next year. Odds are if they keep on losing their likelihood of being fired goes up. Remember Chud and Co. thought they were very secure in their job to play for the future rather than for the Moment and each and every win.
I'm the coach and lets say you are 100% correct in every move - NO WAY I covet those transactions cause if I go 2-3 wins for the year I could be out of a nice job. I would fight to get to 7-8 wins tooth and nail!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You are right of course, that's why I would combine those moves with firing O'Neil and Farmer and give Pettine and his remaining team a certain goal to achieve to keep his job, be that a number of wins or a change in attitiude from his players. That will tell everyone if they are willing to give it all for their HC in a lost season. If they do, you keep Pettine and hire a new GM he can work with...oh, and you tell him his next DC better isn't an old buddy again. Ask him to hire someone he only knows from his resumee and interviews for the job.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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If only we could be GM and Owner...you do know what would be coming...not what you are thinking but probably another Jerry Jones owner/GM then who is going to fire Haslam...there is your continuity...
As stated I wouldn't mind seeing what teams would offer for Mack. Get Greco over to center and let Erving play RG...a little short in depth though. But got to have draft picks and good ones.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Get Greco over to center and let Erving play RG why would you move greco? just wondering.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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More experienced in LINE CALLS...and probably will be the scenario from day one next year if Mack Leaves.
jmho and I don't like double moves for one adjustment but I think that is the plan and in this case makes sense.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I see no problem in trading players that won't be on the team next year. I see no way Mack is on the team next year. He already tried to leave once, we can't tag him, and we drafted his replacement in the first round. It will never happen, but I would do it in a second.
The Colts offensive line is a disaster, one would think they would be willing to give up a pretty good pick for Mack (even if he is a rental). Same goes for the Broncos and Seahawks. Again, Mack can't be traded..... he can be if he agrees to it. And why would he do that? And what team would go for that unless they can work out a long term deal? More importantly, I'd like to retain Mack if possible. I doubt we can, but I hope so.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick.
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick. Sure, and he could be a ProBowler. As I said previously, if Mack was a good pick at #20, why isn't Erving a good pick at #19? Most of us expect to lose Mack for next season...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick. The part that kills me is that they still haven't worked him at center. They primarily see him as a guard and a heavy-package lineman. they even ran him in a pattern as a double-TE set on Sunday  . It's almost like they want to pretend he's not here to play center after Mack leaves in hope that they won't offend Mack and he will stay... in the meantime they are not developing the rookie for the role he was drafted for. It's beyond absurd.
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick. Sure, and he could be a ProBowler. As I said previously, if Mack was a good pick at #20, why isn't Erving a good pick at #19? Most of us expect to lose Mack for next season... Because we have/had other huge holes that could have been filled. We are/were not a team that could afford to use a first round pick on a player and not play him.
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick. Sure, and he could be a ProBowler. As I said previously, if Mack was a good pick at #20, why isn't Erving a good pick at #19? Most of us expect to lose Mack for next season... Mack played from day 1. Erving gets redshirted, throwing away one of his 4 or 5 years on his rookie contract. That's bad value any way you look at it. Farmer is burning value like it's his job. I'm starting to think that he's simply not the sharpest knife in the kitchen.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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It comes across as you dismissing the opinions of others because our arguments are fueled by logic and reason, but rather pure emotion and bias.
Sorry, but that is not a correct evaluation of our opinions. In the cases of Erving and Shelton, I have yet to read a substantive reason for considering them as bad picks. So no, I don't see the logic and reason... Drafting a guy in the first round to be a backup, when you have other gaping holes on the roster, is not very smart. We don't know if Erving is good yet, he can still be a bad pick. The part that kills me is that they still haven't worked him at center. They primarily see him as a guard and a heavy-package lineman. they even ran him in a pattern as a double-TE set on Sunday . It's almost like they want to pretend he's not here to play center after Mack leaves in hope that they won't offend Mack and he will stay... in the meantime they are not developing the rookie for the role he was drafted for. It's beyond absurd. You may very well be right in this line of thought. It would be a delicate matter to handle, but it seems like they didn't want to address it...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Would you do it? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...6053-sf14686053Six trades we'd like to see happen
Joe Haden and Alex Mack to Jaguars
In exchange for Jacksonville's first-round pick. Cleveland can't afford to let talent walk out the door, but it's time to make a stand for the top overall selection. Mack is likely to leave the Browns after this season anyway and showed enough interest in Jacksonville to sign an offer sheet with the Jaguars two seasons ago. Haden is a genuine talent at cornerback, but the Browns don't have much else to offer. With two first-rounders, the Browns can throw in additional picks to get into the No. 1 spot and take Cal's Jared Goff. The Jags get better on both sides of the ball while the Browns nab their franchise arm: Everybody wins.
-- Marc Sessler
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*In Baker we trust*
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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~ Legend
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Wouldn't it suck if they ended up not having the second pick? Marc Sessler is such a moron for even thinking this is an idea we'd like to see. I'll be surprised if he has a job in 5 years.
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Would you do it? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...6053-sf14686053Six trades we'd like to see happen
Joe Haden and Alex Mack to Jaguars
In exchange for Jacksonville's first-round pick. Cleveland can't afford to let talent walk out the door, but it's time to make a stand for the top overall selection. Mack is likely to leave the Browns after this season anyway and showed enough interest in Jacksonville to sign an offer sheet with the Jaguars two seasons ago. Haden is a genuine talent at cornerback, but the Browns don't have much else to offer. With two first-rounders, the Browns can throw in additional picks to get into the No. 1 spot and take Cal's Jared Goff. The Jags get better on both sides of the ball while the Browns nab their franchise arm: Everybody wins.
-- Marc Sessler Not a chance in hell. I would consider trading Mack, but Haden is a cornerstone.
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+1
Mack I could understand. Haden, no. Of all the disappointments on this team, Haden is the one that should stick around.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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All Pro
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Mack played from day 1. Erving gets redshirted, throwing away one of his 4 or 5 years on his rookie contract. That's bad value any way you look at it.
Farmer is burning value like it's his job. I'm starting to think that he's simply not the sharpest knife in the kitchen. Erving was also brought in to be depth this year across the line, which is what he's doing. If he's what has been advertised we'll be happy to have him when one of our guys get hurt (wouldn't this be the season where that doesn't happen...of course).
Last in, first out, the sign of a true champion!![[Linked Image from i301.photobucket.com]](http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn59/Stetson1376/c8f5fed9-fc01-4b87-bda3-b2b53f0b16cb_zpse708e05e.jpg)
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Would you do it? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...6053-sf14686053Six trades we'd like to see happen
Joe Haden and Alex Mack to Jaguars
In exchange for Jacksonville's first-round pick. Cleveland can't afford to let talent walk out the door, but it's time to make a stand for the top overall selection. Mack is likely to leave the Browns after this season anyway and showed enough interest in Jacksonville to sign an offer sheet with the Jaguars two seasons ago. Haden is a genuine talent at cornerback, but the Browns don't have much else to offer. With two first-rounders, the Browns can throw in additional picks to get into the No. 1 spot and take Cal's Jared Goff. The Jags get better on both sides of the ball while the Browns nab their franchise arm: Everybody wins.
-- Marc Sessler Hmm, to the Jax? Probably, but only if Farmer is fired before he can waste the picks again. Here is why: 1. The Browns need everything right now. A total rebuild froma talent standpoint is inevitable. 2. Not sure why Jax would do it, but I see a good chance of a top 10 pick. 3. While Haden is good CB, I don't consider him elite, but he gets paid like one. 4. He's not a leader 5. Mack is only a throw in. If he plays 8 more games in a lost season or not, who cares. He's gone anyway. Won't happen. If only for the simple reason that you can't fire the GM who does that trade. No GM trades away one of his stars without guarantee to stay on. Otoh, Haslam fired Banner after the TRich trade too, so I guess anything is possible in January in Cleveland. Trading Haden, but letting Farmer make the picks would be the worst case scenario
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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No.
I'm not a gm, but I simply don't understand the whole "let's trade our players so we can get a better draft pick" concept. It really is self defeating.
I also don't understand the whole "let's play this rookie, or this second year player so we can see what we have."
Isn't that what coaches are for?
Heck, we may as well trade Mack, Thomas, our punter, Kirksey, Gabriel, Hawkins, Irving, etc. Might get some first round picks, right?
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LOL.......it's not the Browns who would refuse that trade, it's the Jags. And people are acting like we would be crazy to make it. 
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns have engaged in discussions about potentially trading two of their best players: LT Joe Thomas and C Alex Mack, sources say.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Add one more: .@AdamSchefter reported on SportsCenter that #Browns LB Paul Kruger is available in a trade. Deadline is Tuesday
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns have engaged in discussions about potentially trading two of their best players: LT Joe Thomas and C Alex Mack, sources say. No... I'd be crushed if they got rid of JT.
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns have engaged in discussions about potentially trading two of their best players: LT Joe Thomas and C Alex Mack, sources say. Wowzers. I get it why his name is being discussed, but I would be very sad if we traded Thomas. Mack and Kruger make sense and I think we probably should trade them.
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns have engaged in discussions about potentially trading two of their best players: LT Joe Thomas and C Alex Mack, sources say. No... I'd be crushed if they got rid of JT. Me too. Mack and Kruger make more sense, although I don't know what we'd get for Mack considering he can walk at the close of this year. JT's contract is rather favorable to the Browns at this point. I get the guy is on the wrong side of 30, but he's still the best pass blocking LT in the league.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,657
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,657 |
No.
I'm not a gm, but I simply don't understand the whole "let's trade our players so we can get a better draft pick" concept. It really is self defeating.
I also don't understand the whole "let's play this rookie, or this second year player so we can see what we have."
Isn't that what coaches are for?
Heck, we may as well trade Mack, Thomas, our punter, Kirksey, Gabriel, Hawkins, Irving, etc. Might get some first round picks, right? and is the first round talent at the current skill level you are replacing? If first rounds picks are 50/50, that means that odds are 1/2 of what you draft won't pan out anyway...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns have engaged in discussions about potentially trading two of their best players: LT Joe Thomas and C Alex Mack, sources say. No... I'd be crushed if they got rid of JT. Me too. Mack and Kruger make more sense, although I don't know what we'd get for Mack considering he can walk at the close of this year. JT's contract is rather favorable to the Browns at this point. I get the guy is on the wrong side of 30, but he's still the best pass blocking LT in the league. "We need to draft a franchise QB." "Great!" "We should also trade the guy who will be blocking his blindside, rookies QBs don't need pass blocking." "Gre. . .wait, what?"
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