DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns willing to deal Barkevious Mingo, source says; Reports also say Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Paul Kruger on block

Yes, he cost us the game. (Too obvious for purple)

Trading Joe for Andrew Luck isn't as bad a deal as you may think.

I'm sure that's what Farmer must have in mind.

lol i know it's just a hypothetical, but that would be a disaster.

that means we would have Andrew luck, who has fractured ribs, playing for us while Erving, a rookie, is protecting his blind side.

he'd go from an injured QB to a retired one real fast.

God help us if our coaching staff thinks Erving can play left tackle.

Wait, what is that you say? He played left tackle all through the off-season?

Pray for us.

Trade rumours or not, this team is a train wreck in slow motion. Cleveland Brown's fans deserves better than the crap product this FO puts on the field year in year out.

I'd like to think we deserve better, but maybe we were all just really crappy people in a previous life.

Don't have to be a fly on the wall to know someone said "play me or trade me".

I know this comment is being made tongue-in-cheek, but trading Manziel would solve a lot of problems (I am not saying we should trade Manziel, just that it would give us many less headaches).

1. Off the field
2. Determining whether we would need to draft a QB (the answer would clearly be yes)
3. In the locker room (as some have alluded, it seems like some of the veterans would be upset if Manziel were to start)
4. With the coaches (they wouldn't have to deal with the Manziel questions)

If there is ANY truth to Farmer floating Thomas and Mack out there as trade bait, he needs to fired IMMEDIATELY, and Haslam needs to give Pettine protection from the new GM and the new GM needs to be told that Pettine is his guy, and Pettine's schemes are his schemes - at least for the first two years.

[quote]"I'm not a quitter,'' said Thomas. "I'm not a guy that gives up on my goals and my goal from day one was to be part of the turnaround here and that hasn't changed./quote]

There is no price too high to pay for a guy that is this good with this mindset!

You let him go and it's gonna be a hard row to hoe trying to stay positive in that locker room.

I feel too bad for Thomas toiling through this misery for so long to be upset if he gets traded to a contender. I would cheer like crazy for him if he somehow ended up in Green Bay or New England. It's awful how a guy like that, as good as he is and how he does everything right, playing an important role as he does is a part of this mess for so long and still manages to play at an elite level. Not only that, but he's tough and lays it on the line (played banged up for a good chunk of last year). And hey, the pick could help us get that elusive QB we've all wanted.

Mingo, trade him whatever. Our LBs suck, and he's a big part of that. Mack, go ahead and trade him. Erving should be ready to step into the center spot.

Haden, trade him. I do like him, but he just doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that has the mental toughness to take us through to the other side of this suckage.

Kruger would be good to hang onto. Why they are using him the way they are is weird, but he's really the only complete LB'er we have. The guy is solid all around, if unspectacular. Yes, he makes more than he should, but we got him in FA, what do you expect?

my whole thing about Joe is yes we could probably get quite a haul from him, but there are a few positions you really need in order to build a successful team, a solid blind side tackle is one of them to give your QB a chance. So unless you want another Couch situation where you ruin a QB that probably could have had a decent career had you kept him upright, keep the hall of famer in his prime.

The NFL has been notorious for not giving up much for veteran players. They will go crazy to acquire unproven draft picks, but the teams trading the vet always seem to get screwed.

Until you see the talent at the skill position, right?

Why Browns would be crazy to trade Joe Thomas

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/02/why-browns-would-be-crazy-to-trade-joe-thomas/

The Cleveland Browns are 2-6. With the Cincinnati Bengals undefeated at 7-0 the division is very close to already wrapped up, and nobody in Cleveland is kidding themselves into thinking their Wild Card playoff hopes are realistic.

That’s why talk like this has emerged: The Browns are considering trading center Alex Mack and left tackle Joe Thomas.

Mack can opt out of his deal after this season, so trading him makes a certain degree of sense, as it does for 2013 first-round pick Barkevious Mingo, who has also wound up on the block.

But what about for Thomas, the NFL’s premier left tackle?

Thomas has a very team-friendly contract, with no guaranteed money, a roster bonus of just $1 million and a total cap hit of $9.5 million for 2016, and two more years after that in which his cap hit never exceeds $10 million according to overthecap.com. That figure would be the fifth-highest salary cap mark this season for left tackles, for a player who has been the best tackle in the game for almost the entirety of his NFL career.

As things stand, he is our top-ranked tackle with a grade of 94.6, firmly in the elite bracket and just clear of Dallas’ Tyron Smith in second place.

What is perhaps my favorite Joe Thomas stat is that he has missed one snap in his entire NFL career.

The Browns know they need ammunition to rebuild, but if you trade Thomas the first thing you need to do is make sure you have a viable left tackle in place. Cleveland has been spoiled by being able to forget about that spot and take it for granted for the last nine years, but it’s worth looking across the rest of the NFL landscape and appreciating just how much worse the situation can get.

Five tackles have already surrendered more than 30 total pressures this season. Thomas has allowed more than 30 in a season just once in his career, and averages only 23 over each season he has played.

Bad offensive tackles have the ability to almost single-handedly disrupt an offense, and it has never been more difficult to secure a quality tackle than right now. Even teams that take one in the top few picks of the draft are far from guaranteed success given the fortunes of recent seasons, and even those that are seeing the return in that investment have had to suffer through growing pains.

Thomas isn’t just one of the Browns best players, he is one of the best players in football, with a cap-friendly contract, a connection to the team and city, a desire to be part of the team’s turnaround and is showing no sign of declining play despite being over 30 years old.

There are players that the Browns might be wise to trade away – guys who have failed to live up to their billing or players that the team might realistically hope to replace from within without suffering too much of a drop-off in performance. Joe Thomas is not one of them. The chances of replacing Thomas directly and not experiencing a colossal weakening at the position is negligible. All trading Thomas does for you is open up a gaping wound in the roster that could take years to heal.

That's it then, He's toast.

i think trading Thomas might be the one move that would get the fans to revolt.

Standing BOOvation.

Joe has done nothing but bust his ass and support the team and the fans since his first day here. Lord I swear if it was legal I would bust anybody in the mouth that I could that bad mouths him

I know this was meant as a joke but its funny how in hindsight we are saying we'd rather have guys like Ward and Sheard back when many on here were saying these guys are bums and we upgraded at the time.

I liked Sheard's motor, he was playing in the wrong system. Though he did ok in Horton's hybrid 3-4. I always was a fan of Ward.

If Pettine gets canned, anybody think that Ray Horton would take the HC job? Would he be a good candidate?

I'd bet that our next HC will be an "offensive" one ... teams tend to hire the opposite of what they've had

Who's the GB OC?

Maybe if Farmer is fired Shanahan would be a good choice?

You think Shanny would work for Haslam again? Funny guy! That is unless you mean the senior.

We won't hire him, but Shanny's problem was w/Farmer. Not Haslam.

Haslam actually did Shanny a favor by releasing him from his contract after the 32 pt. presentation so he could go somewhere else.

Freaking Farmer. We had a smart guy here and Farmer thought he knew more about offense. I am to the point where I hate freaking Farmer!

the fact that you have a coach that wanted out so bad he came up with a presentation, and majority of it had to do with the GM, and in the league said coach's reputation was much much better than the GM's, I'm thinking Haslam see's he probably made the wrong choice

I'm there.

Me too. No faith in that guy putting together a roster.

I didn't make that point very well. I was trying to say it seems like all those things are true about the players, and then you realize, they were pretty damn good before this coaching staff. In other words, they're not the problem.

Welcome ... we saved you a seat.

Here we go again: Browns willing to trade for draft picks and pad salary cap room
Nov 03, 2015 -- 6:00am

Fire sale: The Browns might not consummate a trade before Tuesday’s 4 p.m. deadline, but it won’t be from a lack of trying.

A league source confirmed the team has actively engaged in discussions to acquire “assets” – draft picks -- by trading players no longer in the team’s future plans. The source said the person pushing this strategy is President Alec Scheiner, who appears to have gained inroads in football operations.

As General Manager Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine stumble through individually trying seasons, Scheiner has become the loudest voice in the ear of owner Jimmy Haslam, said the source.

While the futures of Farmer and Pettine are uncertain, Scheiner’s business acumen has earned him the attention of Haslam, who has seen the Browns’ franchise value estimated by Forbes increase by $500 million in his three years of ownership.

The strategy Scheiner wants to employ is a familiar one established by former CEO Joe Banner in 2013 – collect extra draft picks and create salary cap room, setting up the next roster implosion.

With that in mind, here is a look at the Browns’ most valuable commodities as the trade deadline approaches:

Offensive tackle Joe Thomas

Thomas repeatedly has said he doesn’t want to be traded to a contending team, that he wants to be a part of the “turnaround” of the Browns’ franchise. Trading the popular, blue-collar Thomas would be a PR fiasco for the Browns. But he is the only player on the team who could bring a first-round draft pick in return.

According to a source, the Browns had talks with the Denver Broncos early in the season after Denver lost left tackle Ryan Clady to injury in the preseason. The Broncos were willing to part with their first-round pick in 2016, but the Browns also asked for second-year linebacker Shaq Barrett, and that apparently killed the deal.

Coincidentally, Barrett had a big hand in Denver’s 26-23 overtime win over the Browns in Cleveland on Oct. 18. Playing in place of injured DeMarcus Ware, Barrett led the Broncos with nine tackles, had 1.5 sacks, forced a fumble, had three other tackles for loss, forced a fumble and defensed a pass.

The Broncos had resigned themselves to having rookie Ty Sambrailo fill Clady’s big shoes at left tackle. But Sambrailo will have season-ending shoulder surgery and the Broncos are revisiting the idea of trading for a left tackle to protect Peyton Manning.

Thomas, 30, has made the Pro Bowl in each of his eight seasons with the Browns. He is signed through 2018 at roughly $10 million a year in salary and bonuses.

Center Alex Mack

Mack might appeal even as an eight-game rent-a-player to a contender in need, such as Seattle. But on Monday, he announced via a prepared statement that he would not waive the no-trade clause in the contract he signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars as a “transition player” in 2014, which the Browns matched.

"I'm not leaving my teammates, coaches and Browns fans while there is work this season to be finished," Mack wrote.

Mack’s contract has three more years to run, but it includes an opt-out clause after 2015 to become a free agent. Of course, Mack wouldn’t say if he would leave his teammates after this year.

The Browns matched this supremely player-friendly contract in one of Farmer’s first orders of business upon being promoted to general manager in 2014. Securing a successor to Mack was the primary reason Farmer selected Cam Erving with the 19th pick in the 2015 draft.

Linebacker Paul Kruger

Kruger is in the middle year of a five-year $40.5 million contract he signed in 2013, Banner’s only offseason of player transactions. His guarantees are over, and his compensation of $6.5 million in 2016 and $7 million in 2017 is not outrageous for a double-digit sack pass rusher.

Kruger was that in 2014, leading the Browns with 11. But the coaches changed his role in 2015, positioning him over the tight end and replacing pass rush opportunities with pass coverage assignments. Kruger has only one-half sack and has bit his lip when asked about the frustration of his new role.

Kruger could appeal to a contending team like Arizona, which has been deficient rushing the passer from the edge linebacker positions.

The Browns may dangle other players for trade – linebacker Barkevious Mingo, cornerback Justin Gilbert, quarterback Johnny Manziel – but none is going to bring much more than a conditional draft pick in return.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=51211

Oh boy.

Yeah, That could end a Belicheck-Kosar type backlash.

If Alec Scheiner is pulling the strings behind the scenes, it wouldn't surprise me if both Pettine and Farmer WANTED out.

If true, what a dysfunctional, ugly mess.

Banner 2.0?

great, thought we got rid of that guy for a reason.

my thoughts exactly Rish

Most sane and sensible thing I have read on the board. Loyalty is an anchor; find the ones that can matter and show them the respect. JT is leading the parade in my book.

I would like to know who did this and just before game time.

Trade Scheiner this very morning. Just stupid judgment.

Making perceived problems go away is not to say the problems don't exist any more. Kill the roots.

Buy impact players. Get better judges of talent. Wizard of Oz, perhaps?

X3,Bowe was the last required nudge, this guy is just a bad decision making factory.

IF Haslam is listening to Scheiner, he is the dumbest owner in the NFL.

Here is Scheiner's background...

Alec Scheiner (born 1973 in Lower Merion, PA)[1] is the current president of the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League (NFL).

Bio/Early life[edit]
Scheiner was born and grew up in Lower Merion, Pennsylvania. After graduating high school, he attended Georgetown University, graduating with degrees in economics and Latin American studies in 1992. He then attended the Georgetown University Law Center, where he graduated with a law degree in 1997.[2]

After college, Scheiner became a lawyer, working at the law firm of Wilmer, Cutler, and Pickering (now WilmerHale), where he practiced from 1997 to 2004.[3]

NFL career[edit]
In 2004, Scheiner was hired by the NFL's Dallas Cowboys to be their general counsel. Four years later, he was promoted to vice president, where he was a key player in the day-to-day business operations of the team, as well as a point man for the building of the new Cowboys Stadium (now AT&T Stadium). In 2010, Scheiner was named to Sports Business Journal's "40 Under 40" list of top young sports executives.[1][4]

On December 18, 2012, Scheiner left the Cowboys to become president of the Cleveland Browns, where he is in charge of all business operations for the team.[1][4]
link


Now tell me, where in that BIO does it talk about Scheiner's football experience?

I've been saying that Haslam needs someone with football experience, a Bill Parcells type, to act as his close adviser.

No way can Haslam be this dumb...to rely on the opinions and advise from a guy with ZERO football experience..no way!