DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem for Colleges

When I call in an exterminator, I expect him to do his job and kill bugs.

When I call for Fire/Ambulance, I expect them to come in and fix a bad situation.

When they called in that Police Officer he did exactly what he is trained to do, get the situation (that others were overwhelmed by) under control and remove the offender. Why else does one call a cop into a situation where other authorities are in over their heads? To take control!

Maybe that's why they can't vote until they're 18?

So you believe the litmus test of right and wrong depend on high school students rather than laws about assault. Because that's what happened there.

I'll have to remember that angle. "Oh yeah, a bunch of high school kids say different!" lol

The school has over 2000 students and 100 walked out. Hmmm......

There's a difference in taking control and assaulting a student.

And how long have you been a cop?

just to show that I'm not completely making this up: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sher...officer-n452481



I also read somewhere that he was within protocol to physically remove her from the classroom although I'm not really clear on that either.

You don't have to be a cop to have common sense. You don't have to be a cop to know what assault is. This cop didn't have to go to the extreme he did to handle this situation. The fact you are making excuses for everything any cop does says a lot.

We have many great police out there in our communities. I commend them for the job they do. But as with any profession, there are both good and bad. This one is bad.

is it really any different than the principal giving her a paddling?

You don't seem to understand authority either.
When the teacher says to put away the cell phone and you ignore her,
she steps it up.
She comes to your desk and asks you to give her the phone and you refuse.
She steps it up.
She yells at you to leave the room and go to the principle which you refuse to do.
She steps it up.
She calls in the Principle and he goes through the same routine but you refuse.
He steps it up.
He calls in the Police Officer who is trained to get the situation under control and remove you from the area but you fight him.
He steps it up.
He lays hands on you and you begin to fight and struggle against his orders.
He steps it up.

Your attitude is what is wrong with today's Society and it shows in the classroom, at the traffic stop, and at the scene of a crime. It shows as you defend those who have brought a situation to a head.

N

You make a very valid point here. Young educators do have much to offer! They offer fresh perspective, wet behind the ears desire to learn and enthusiasm. However, If I may make an observation: whenever I mentor a young educator or have a student teacher, I think I learn more about life from them than they do from me. It is very interesting to see their attitude change and evolve as they actually begin to do the educating of our students.

In the beginning, they arrive thinking they have the world by the balls. That is a fact that I believe directly addresses the issue of this thread. This attitude is very prominent among young educators.

Within the first few weeks, the evolution begins. They more frequently ask for ideas and support, finally coming to terms with the thought that there is room for improvement within their perfect self. They truly begin to take note of effective strategies and implementation of curriculum. They begin to struggle with discipline and their own classroom behavior plans and ideas begin to emerge. I smile!

At this point, it is important to let these youth feel the struggle. Feel the frustration. Feel the helplessness. Feel the sense of inadequacy. Many of them have been told they are so incredibly wonderful and perfect all of their lives. For the first time they are understanding they are not and that is OK. It really is. Who hasn't been there in life?

Within the next few weeks, there are tough times that require much understanding, support and guidance. They begin to realize this is not a cake job with icing to top it off. That is when reality sets in and the seriousness and importance of education AND self betterment begins.

Within the last few weeks, a beautiful picture emerges of just who this young educator is becoming. Reality has gripped them and they work harder than ever before in their endeavor to be the best they can be, not only in their life as an educator but in their personal life as well.

The last week is emotional. With guidance, anticipation, hesitation and encouragement they say good-bye and thank you and move on to the real world. Many thank me for letting them fail and immediately following up with productive discussion of how to make it better. I smile!

Every student teacher I have ever had has remained in touch with me over the years. We support one another along this perilous and challenging path. I smile!!!

Many in society (especially parents) are busy doing one of two things. We either are way too busy seeing to it that our children never fail or we are too busy with our own lives to care.

Now, I would ask just what in that young persons path gave him/her the idea that they had the world by the balls? What made him/her believe this would be an easy journey? My answer is the same one that explains less student resiliency: entitlement and lack of respect.

If she had an ounce of respect for ANYBODY in authority, none of this would have ever happened.

But what should they have done?

So, she deserved to have the officer tip her desk over?

We deal with problem students on a day by day basis. No classroom is full of sunshine and roses. Teachers, along with other adults, need to set the example in their classrooms. You lose in a classroom when you do what this officer did.

Never, in any of my young years of teaching, did I ever wish for something like this to happen to my students. I will make sure an officer will never make a baffoon of himself in our classroom.

I'm not sure where I said keep doing what we always do. I think I said I agree with your idea that that there's a problem that needs solutions.

My only disagreement was your idea that the problem is kids feel entitled these days.

You asked me for my ideas about the causes behind the girl's behavior and wondered why I wasn't quick enough in providing them. I'm pretty sure I've provided them at least a couple of times.

You also have indicated that the cause of this incident was the girl's sense of entitlement. I have no problem discussing our differences and I said the difference was she wasn't the only cause.

I'm not sure why you have responded, now a couple of times, with what seems to be mild hostility.

My first response to your challenge of why I hadn't replied quick enough to your post shows I'm capable of responding with snarks, but then you responded to me with well stated ideas and I responded with my ideas.

Apparently we've become involved with forum fighting. What's up with, "Snicker...snicker.....carry on!,,,....... "?

we've been in agreement a lot lately bro.

but that's the thing man. i never said we wasn't screwed up. hell i've admitted it on other threads.

but what i find funny is that when i point out to these older guys that their generation wasn't exactly puppies and rainbows either, they get all up in their feelings. it's right there for you to read.

and btw, its funny that they get all up in their feelings, because they're the main ones complaining about people being offended......and then just got offended.

there's so many different dynamics to how <insert generation> acts.

does our generation have an entitlement problem? sure. but guess what we have that the other generations don't?

we actually care about other people. we aren't racist, we don't do closet racist either.

i mean think about Has, the older generation warped the words. So "thug" is just code word for blacks, just like "illegals" is code word for mexicans. they know they can't outright say it because "our generation" is on the PC stuff, so they gotta find ways around expressing their bigotry.

and until somebody proves me otherwise, i believe that with every ounce of my body.

thats what my entire point was bro. i'm tired of these guys acting all high and mighty like their generations were somehow better than ours.

they're not. period.

Check out these movies; The Blackboard Jungle, To Sir With Love, Up The Down Staircase.

I agree this girl shows the symptoms of societal dysfunction, but I'm wondering why you keep saying most of societies problems are from the lower classes taking your money.

Maybe I haven't seen your posts stating corporations feeling entitled to make profits here, but refusing to pay their taxes while sending their money overseas might be part of the problem as well.

How about frat boys feeling entitled to force girls to have sex?

How about a clerk feeling entitled to break the law to deny civil rights while claiming she's the victim?

How about voting against providing a civil right to someone when providing that right will have absolute zero effect on your life?

Heck, what about a government full of people making the same lame complaints about entitlements while feeling entitled to give themselves raises and trying to force the government to close down?

How is sending HUGE amounts of money to entitled corporations and defense while voting down infra-structure not an example of entitlements causing damage to our society?

How is refusing to allow the lowest class of workers to earn the same minimum wage as we earned not an example of a society destroying entitlement?

How about being a union member working for an energy monopoly?

So far most of the complaints about entitlements have been unfounded complaints about participation trophies, kids' behaviors and specific government spending that you personally disagree with.

Maybe she feels authority hasn't an ounce of respect for her. That's pretty much what I see in this video.

In the 9th grade I was in a study hall when the teacher, a male teacher who was firmly part of the athletes' clique, came in and started randomly bitching at kids.

He picked me up with his hands on my throat and threw me down because he thought I was smiling.

Neither of these behaviors in this video are new behaviors, but let's not pretend that being compliant prevents problems with authority figures.

I never said "The Lower Classes", what I said is "Druggies and Parasites". Being poor is not a bad thing. There are plenty
of Rich and Middle Class druggies and Parasites too.

I don't consider Druggies and Parasites to be "part" of Society, I find them to be a blight on a cohesive Society. They bring us all down.

Your attempt to twist what I have said and the rest of your one sided, liberal slanted post is typical of your "twisting" of the subject at hand.

You make some good points. There was a lot that could be read into when I wrote how in many ways, it is a screwed up society we raise our kids in. Part of that was to mean some of the stuff I've written about in threads here with the video games, internet, processed junk food, etc. It's also other topics we've talked about here before... violence, pollution, the national debt, and all that. The young generation did not cause any of that.

On the part about getting offended, it's just not something I really think about. There is nothing anybody on this board could say to me or about me (or our generation) that would offend me. I guess I have just completely eliminated that idea from my life if that makes any sense. The only people who could offend me would be close friends or family saying something really nasty, and that has not happened in a long time.

I still think the worst thing you can say about an idea is that they are wrong. Like if you have to attack the person and call them mean or x-ist or y-ic, that should be a warning sign. If you can just say, "You're wrong. Here's why....", that is much more effective. I'm kind of rambling here though.

This young generation has a couple massive advantages over old people that they could take advantage of. The first is that they are growing up with technology so if they just use it productively and avoid the pitfalls (e.g. excessively playing video games and using social media), they could really learn a tremendous amount of useful skills while they are young and it's relatively easy to learn. People can effective learn new skills for most of their lives (neuroplasticity and all that) but it does happen faster while young.

Instead of watching TV for 40 hours a week, go learn something useful. In one of the old threads on here, I listed at least a dozen or so ways to make money online. People have gotten rich off every single one. I have made good money (not gotten rich) off some of them. I was never taught any of it school, but information on it was and is readily available on the internet. It just takes some reading and experimenting, really.

Or right now, I'm learning how to code. I've been doing it here and there for about 5 weeks and I can write very basic Python programs. You don't need an education for this. There is extensive documentation that anybody here could find in less than a minute. Programmers are always in high demand, salary can go upwards of $100k, and you don't need a college degree to get a good job. You just need to know how to code and be reasonably smart and motivated. Don't take it for granted that 'smart and motivated' are common. The combination of the two is surprisingly hard to find.

It reminds me of Arch posting several times here about a guy he knew offering unskilled labor starting at $15/hr, and how the guy had a hard time finding people. In my old online marketing business, I had gone through many subcontractors. Most of them were so outrageously bad that I mostly just quit trying to find them. I would just go and teach myself a skill; it would take just as much time overall and save a bunch of money in the process. That's the thing, any averagely smart person can teach themselves some skills and profit from them. All the moreso young people who already have some of the technical skills to begin with.

I guess that's a long way of saying that it bothers me sometimes when people complain that there aren't any jobs, or that people aren't getting enough of an education. The ability to improve one's situation is out there for anybody who is willing to put in a reasonable amount of effort.

It seems your most sincere posts are the ones that you attempt to claim others twist your words.

Do you honestly believe only radical, extremist, fanatical, fundamentalist, conservatives like you state your beliefs with out twisting words and denying all you've stated clearly many times before?

The officer was trying to remove her from her desk. She stiffened up and began to flail.. that's why her desk flipped over.


So then what do you do?


I'm sure this teacher wishes it had never happened also. I'm also quite sure he understands that sometimes "kids will be kids" and he doesn't expect perfection... but I'll be he expects that kids will comply with reasonable requests at some point.

The teacher asked her to comply with the standard class rule of putting your phone away, she refused, took the next logical step which was to send her to the office, she refused... she refused authority multiple times before this cop even entered the room. Even the cop asked her multiple times to leave the room, she refused... how long is authority supposed to respect her for doing that?

If you are going to be utterly defiant of authority, then the authority figure(s) really has no choice but to continue to up the ante. That's the way the world works.

You mouth off to an official, first time they might overlook it and tell you to stop.
You mouth off again, you get a technical foul or a flag thrown as a warning to stop it.
You mouth off again, you get ejected.
You keep mouthing off, and you get suspended for future games
You keep mouthing off, and people will want you removed from the team....

That's the way the world works.


Sounds like an unfortunate incident which, if it went as you described it, the teacher was in the wrong. I'm not saying that complying with authority is ALWAYS going to keep bad things from happening... but the odds of bad things happening if you DEFY authority, go way up.

man, if those black people would've just submitted to authority from jim crow era.

or those stupid americans would've just submitted to authority to the british.

Just because somebody is in a position of authority doesn't make them in the right. at all.

That's a little dramatic when we are talking about a kid who won't put their cell phone away in class and refuses to go to the office don't you think?

In fact, I would think that this line of thinking is causing a big part of the problem... feeding a kids head with.. "We had slavery until the 1800s, we had segregation and Jim Crow laws in the first half of the 1900s.. therefore, why not tell your teacher and a cop to shove it when they make a reasonable request in a high school classroom?"

I'm sure the teacher, who was black, in a class that appeared to be almost all black, singled her out for racial reasons... smdh.

i didn't make this particular issue a racial one, as i didn't mention the kids race or the teachers race, or the cops race the entire thread.

so you're being a bit dramatic yourself, but whatever.

i also saw you ignored the american/british comment. i guess you saw "jim crow" and got into defensive mode and tunnel vision.

I simply made a comparison that we shouldn't just be bowing down to authority just because. people are in power all the time that have no business being there.

just like this cop.

Other people have.. my apologies to you if you did not.


Yes, you used large scale systemic injustice and compared it to a high school kid refusing to put away her cell phone... which from what I know, is a rule in pretty much every school across the land and is a perfectly reasonable one at that.

If you are going to take a stand against abuse of authority and injustice, then do it where actual abuse of authority and injustice is occuring.

Swish, how was this situation was supposed to be resolved? Some options, in chronological order:

- The student is allowed to play with any device she wants to in class. No big deal.

- The student is not allowed to play with her phone, but the teacher is powerless to do anything about it. The student can just say, "screw you, I will do whatever I darn well please", and the teacher goes back to trying to teach

- The administrator comes in, and is just as powerless as the teacher

- Ditto with the cop. None of them have any power to do anything.

See how silly this is? This would quickly lead to anarchy in the school. Any reasonable series of steps inevitably leads to this: Some adult or adults physically removes the student from class

Maybe there is an intermediary step of getting the parents involved or something but I don't know.

If I'm wrong, what should have happened instead? (I admit that the 'removing' aspect could have been done in gentler fashion.)

once again, i have never once said what the kid did was right. at all.

no where. she was in the wrong for even being on her cell phone in the first place.

but at the end of the day, she didn't deserved to get bodied up like that by the cop. she was non aggressive.

No matter how that played out, if she resisted, which she did, it wasn't going to look good. I was thinking they should have just left her in the chair and slid the chair out in the hall with her in it.

But do you agree that he was within his rights to take her out of the classroom? Not just for being on her phone, but also repeatedly ignoring orders from her teacher, the administrator, and the cop.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arch...student/412588/

It looks pretty bad, but he does try to pull her out from the desk before flipping it over. He doesn't actually flip the desk over until after he has been smacked in the head a couple times.

Again he was rough but I don't think it's so far out of line compared to what would be expected from physically removing a kid who is clinging to a desk.

sorry but imma hit somebody trying to body me up like that too. it's called a reaction and self defense. i'm not just gonna let somebody put their hands on me when i haven't been physically violent at all.

and thats my reaction NOW. i couldn't tell you how i would react as a teenager. there probably would've been an actual fight. then you take into account the emotional train wreck she's in during that time....jeez...

and thats the problem with the whole position of authority crap. if any of us would've handled our own kids like that in public, we'd be arrested. but since it's a cop, then it's ok?

i just think about if that was my daughter....sorry man, i'll never side with the cop on this. ever.

Like I said, Cop should have asked her twice to leave and then walked out saying "Nothing I can do here!"

Protect your job first, keep your paycheck, protect and serve your family and let Society deal with its own problems, they don't have your back anymore anyway.

I have not read all posts regarding this so I apologize if I am wrong, but thus far I have not seen a well thought out, effective solution to this situation.

Many posters are suggesting the officer went too far. He may have, but give me the solution. If the officer's actions were too rough, you essentially have a standoff. He and the school are powerless to remove the student. I guess we could hire a team of counselors/negotiators to find out what her reasons were for deliberately disobeying and disrespecting 2 administrators & 1 officer.

I was in high school in the 1970's & no cop would have dealt wit this. The principal, with the help of another male teacher if need be, would have hauled this student to the office with just as much physicality.

The next stages would likely have been as follows. Parents would have been called and if they did not demonstrate an intent to clean up the behavior, the student would have been expelled.

I would never have spoken to a teacher, much less a cop in that manner.

To relate this situation to movies (To Sir With Love, Blackboard Jungle etc), where the story is written and outcomes can be predetermined is sort of silly also. Joe Clark had an entire security team in Patterson NJ if we are using movie references. He first expelled all the "bad" kids and chained the doors to keep them out.
Movies go both ways.

I would never advocate arresting a parent for physically removing a disobedient child from a situation if the parent had made multiple reasonable attempts to get them to comply.

I'd be more likely to applaud.


If this was my daughter I would advise the school that I think the cop went too far. Then my daughter would get a load of it from me for acting like that.

I guess after getting her out of the desk, throwing her six to eight feet across the floor was fine too. The rationalization of this sickens me.

I agree with you but times have changed. Society relies on "Movies" on social media to Judge and Execute anyone who uses force to solve anything, facts be damned. Civil War hero's are now dirt. Kill the Cops is what the marchers shout and the Constitution is in our way!

Society hates the Police until they need a cop.

The only solution is exactly what I advised the cop to do, nothing! Let today's Society deal with their own problems and the cop needs to protect his job first. Would this have even been on the internet if the cop just walked away. Nope. When things finally get bad enough, Society will remember why they made cops in the first place.
Society no longer has your back. Society doesn't want to look at people behaving badly and teach them to join us, they would rather tear down the system that has made us a Society and a Civilization.

You saying To relate this situation to movies (To Sir With Love, Blackboard Jungle etc), where the story is written and outcomes can be predetermined is sort of silly also. That is what I thought when I didn't reply to it. Just Silly.

Swish has already pointed out that it's perfectly reasonable that once the cop tried to remove her that she was going to fight back.. so yea, tossing her onto her stomach as she's fighting back to get her under control seems reasonable.

Wow, just wow.

A lot of people are still waiting for those in disbelief to actually say what should have happened...

I actually think that has a lot to do with it.

Combined with the fact that she's an irrational teen, with a traumatic history, probably no one to guide her through her emotional issues or the proper way to respond to her anger and who can probably give many examples of racial inequality, I would agree she probably has a feeling of entitlement.

But that's not just a random, lazy, "I'm wonderful, so I don't give a crap" entitlement. Her behaviors didn't happen in a vacuum. Neither did the officer's who was also part of the conflict.

I'm not excusing her behaviors in this incident, but there possibly more reasons for her behavior than there is for an adult who's assumed to be a professional at his job.

Not sure why some insist there's a simple solution to everything.

Obviously the better solution would be to have an established procedure for dealing with behaviors.

I still wonder why only one officer was present. That's almost a guarantee that there will either be problems or the officer will refuse to deal with it.

I was working in a school way back in the day and they called the police about a kid walking the halls and disrupting. 4 officers showed up.

This school needs an established set of rules and consequences that include removal. Removal should be done safely and appropriately and by an established procedure.

The movies I suggested demonstrate that disruptive and violent students are absolutely nothing new to society. I'm sorry you couldn't understand that and only thought it was silly. Give them another glance and maybe you'll see.

There always has been and probably always will be troubled students in schools. That may never change, but there is eveidence that schools are changing to deal with it.

Of course there is nothing new about students being disruptive and violent in Society, It is just that Society used to teach them the error of their ways and the situation was dealt with. Today, people choose to blame the authorities and the very Society we have worked so hard to create!

I got your suggestion, I get your suggestion, and I still find it silly.