DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Bengals 31 Post Game Comments

Haven't watched the game yet, I'm a few weeks behind on game pass due to life (next up, Ravens so I got that going for me )
Couple of things though.

Flip comes in as a rook OC. Big selling point was tailoring the scheme to the skill set of the players and not forcing players to the scheme if not suited. Made sense. He's had his growing pains but I don't think the O, outside of inconsistency and the sometimes complete abandonment of the running game, has been a train wreck. I like Flip, I like the development and play of the QBs thus far, I hope we keep them and they grow with us (yeah I know, 10pts right? But for he most part we've scored enough in games to win. We are in pretty good company with seven other teams on the Bengals belt, these aren't the Bungles (until the playoffs!)

Spin it back. What is up with this D. There is a lot of info out there which is extremely concerning. Read between the lines on Krugers' comments on the trade block rumours. D linemen dropping into coverage to cover receivers, the use of Mingo, the use of Orchard. Do these players fit the scheme? Are we maximising skill set here? Consider the half time Pet comments on JM. If I didn't know better, these guys are forcing players into this scheme regardless of if they are suited to adapt. That is not smart.

Read some comparison on this board to Wilson, "backyard" QB play in rookie year. Johnny plays a certain way, why stifle that?? It's why we bloody took him where we did!

Pett has made comments on it being a result driven business and a win loss league so he knows the score. Let the damn players play and do whatever it takes. Literally Whatever. It. Takes. To get a win. Nobody cares how you got there. It's almost like they are riding themselves out of town with some kinda weird moral high ground or something. Just bizarre.

Its beginning to look like that is the case in concept only. We need a football guy deciding whether Farmer and Pettine go and someone with enough league wide respect to draw in the right guys to replace them. Also do we always seem to get that coach that places "their philosophy" above the team actually winning? If my memory is correct Davis, Crenell, Mangini, Shurmur and now Pettine all seem to place there egos over what is best for the team.

My post game thoughts after sleeping on it. I'm done watching until we have a different staff. Seriously. This team is not worth watching when we know the outcome of the the game each week. This team is so devoid of talent and people who can utilize whatever talent we have. The GM is terrible and doesn't deserve to have a job. I saw a team that was truly built through the draft move the ball and dominate at will.

The only reason I'm a Browns fan was because of a boyfriend of my mother watched the games regularly when I was 10 and I started watching them with him. Why couldn't he have been a Cincinnati fan? I hate this team.

You guys keep blaming Scheiner. This isn't his fault. Keep him out of it. The problem is Farmer and or Pettine. Those are the two people charged with finding the talent and coaching the talent.

We can debate if one or the other is more the reason for our failures on the field, but Scheiner has nothing to do with that.

This is sounding much as it did when we dumped Collins because he called out Savage for not being in the office.

Concentrate on the real problem, not the side shows.

I went to bed at halftime. I knew beyond a doubt that we'd melt down, and that's really sad.

I believe that is the key word in your post. Someone to oversee and direct the process of building a winning team...like Peyton Manning perhaps.

Shelton is a pure 3-4 NT and would not fit as a 4-3 DT.

He's not failing due to playing the wrong position, he is failing because he allows other players to get the leverage.

Playing w/leverage should be a strength for him, but he loses that battle on most plays.

Whomever we bring in as a new head coach, if we make a change, should be someone who is from the O side of the ball. Someone who can work with JM and develop his skills. This kid looks like he can play but is far from a finished product. He won't develop much more in this situation unless our HC let's him play and he doesn't s
seem to want to do that. I would let him play the rest of the year see what we have. Let Bowe play too he is that big target we need and let him earn his money. How about seeing what we have in Bibbs. Can't hurt.

The season is over let's use the remaining games and do something different and see what we have.

The thought that came to my mind last night was how long the Bengals have had the same coach and how long they have had some of their players. If anything this is a case NOT to blow this team up. We simply CANNOT keep firing everyone and starting over and expect winning teams. It just aint gonna happen.

Different QB, same problems. Hopefully this time we can finally talk about the lack of talent pretty much everywhere.

No run D, no playmakers

Manziel was ok. Like McCown, he wasn't the reason the game was lost, but he looked worse than McCown when adversity struck, that was notable. He didn't turn the ball over, that was good and he was much better prepared and decisions were better, but he simply lacks talent to play QB at this level. He's also not accurate. I know others will disagree, but he's all over with his throws, even on most completions. When every commentator sees it (his problems in the pocket) and the opposing HC DARES you to beat you from the pocket...it's all you need to know. With REAL NFL QB, you WANT them to flush them out of the pocket. Think about that for a minute. It's all one needs to know why he's not a NFL QB. A smaller and slower version of Kaep is his ceiling. Did he have 50yds throwing from the pocket? Maybe with garbage time, but I wouldn't bet on it. Oh, and I hate his shortstop throwing motion. And he also has the bad habit of running back on every shotgun snap, like a 10 step drop...and then the constant backfoot hop throws, so ugly. I think it's simply because he has problems scanning the field when in the pocket. He sees nothing.
But he didn't turn the ball over, that's a start, I guess.

I'm just tired of complaining all the time so I'll keep my reply short, how do you line up that far offsides when your an interior linemen, the ball is right in front of you.

Oh and Taylor Gabriel couldn't catch a cold if it hit him in his chest or his face mask.

Another joke fest.

... . I do agree with you about Starks being offside. It was 4th down, an incomplete pass, and we take over the ball. Yay...oh, wait.

J/C

I think a major portion of the roster on both sides of the ball needs blown up. There are so few playmakers. I'm not going to list everyone because I know we'll have a thread of that in due time, but for crying out loud we really don't have a go-to, impact player anywhere.

I'm not sure how I feel about blowing up the front office/coaching staff. I'm all for letting things develop and grow, but I don't know if this group is capable. Sadly, the only way to find out is to be patient. If you're Haslam, do you give Famer and Pettine another year or two? I sit them both down (separately and then together) and ask each for their honest opinion on what's wrong.

I'm guessing one will say it's coaching and the other will say it's the roster. I've not been pleased with either, but the man in charge of the roster would be the first that would have major explaining to do.

I mentioned this in another thread, but there has to be someone with a strong football background who is a no b.s. person in charge of football operations. The GM and Coach report to him and only him. You hire him and let him do his job. If it means cleaning house, then give him the time to throw out the garbage and restock with talent. If it takes 2,3,4 years, I don't buckle to public pressure. See it through. I'm talking guys like (but not necessarily these specific people)Cowher, Parcells, Saban (thanks Vers bringing him up the other day!). Could Peyton Manning be in the plans? Would he be tough enough? I don't know.

Sadly we've heard all that before and have yet to let it play out. If we go 3,4,5 years and it doesn't work, how much worse is that than what we've been doing?

Barnidge. But Manziel doesn't utilize him nearly to the degree that McCown does (did)...

j/c:

Cleveland Browns

– All the focus for the Browns entering this game was on Johnny Manziel (-0.3), and although he was able to outperform his disastrous home start against the Bengals from Week 15 last season, this was not the kind of performance to reinvigorate a quarterback controversy in Cleveland. His receivers didn’t help him by dropping five passes—three by Taylor Gabriel (-4.1) alone—but Manziel did little to help himself, vacating clean pockets and bringing his eyes down too quickly to scramble on occasion, leading to unnecessary pressure. There were positives in this game, but still flaws that Manziel must eradicate if he is to get the keys to the offense.

– For the second week in a row, the left side of the Browns’ offensive line earned negative overall grades in the same game, with Joe Thomas (-2.0) and Joel Bitonio (-3.0) struggling in pass protection in particular. There were difficulties exchanging pass rushers on stunts; other times, they simply lost straight up to Cincinnati pass rushers. Thomas’ poor night was particularly noteworthy, as the seven pressures he allowed (all hurries) are the most he has allowed in a single game in his career since Week 16 of his rookie season (one hit, eight hurries), also in Cincinnati.

– En route to dropping their fourth consecutive game with a down night from their offensive line and a litany of poor performances on defense, optimism was thin on the ground for the Browns. One player to note, however, is rookie safety Ibraheim Campbell (+1.3), who put in a solid performance during his first career start. The Browns’ fourth-round pick added two stops to the three he recorded in his NFL debut on Sunday against the Cardinals, earning back-to-back positive game grades to begin his career on defense after only featuring on special teams until Sunday.

Top performers:

RG John Greco (+2.6)

RT Mitchell Schwartz (+2.5)

S Ibraheim Campbell (+1.3)

OLB Paul Kruger (+0.9)

HB Duke Johnson (+0.7)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...ree-touchdowns/

Geez, I wonder why Thomas had a bad game. Must of had something on his mind.

Thanks, Memphis! I thought Crowell would have earned a positive grade as well...

He might have... just not at +0.7 or higher, according to them.

Not going to blame the players. It all boils down to coaching and the Browns suck at it. Pettine needs to go and he can take his little lap dog O'neill with him.

Wait!

Thomas had a negative grade and Schwartz a positive grade?

Are these the same guys who said Rodgers graded out negatively?

This is why I stated that a football operations guy needs to be in place. If it's left up to Scheiner (who knows ZERO about football) then it won't matter who is brought in.

Didn't Schwartz get beat twice for sacks by Dunlap? Joe had a false start, but I don't think he gave up any sacks. But Joe gets the negative grade? I know pass pro isn't the only measurement, but sacks are drive killers.

Joe Thomas got blown up multiple times on run plays.

Well, I guess it's obvious that Farmer's strategy of not drafting any play-making WRs these past 2 years is starting to pay off!

Our 3rd down and goal line defense when it counts is downright pathetic.


That's all you need to know.

The pay off for Farmer is that he got paid. The pay off for Browns fans is that this no talent hack will be gone after this season. A guy buying a draft magazine off the rack and making picks could have done WAY better than this idiot. LMAO

If I were Haslam there would be two things on Pettine's Desk this morning.
An envelope labeled JM Starts.... inside would be letter saying "You can stay for now."
And a Big Cardboard Box labeled McCown Starts.

First half looked better than I figured it would.
(Though that Lining up offside was inexcusable)

Second half looked like Pettine was trying to find ways to have JM fail.
Sure O'Neil calls them but final 'say so' goes to Pettine.

JM looked liked a guy who needs more playing time in Real Time to get things sorted out. He looked like a Rookie. Unlike last year when he looked like Garbage. I am NOT a JM supporter. Thought it was a wasted pick in the draft. BUT because of the O Line meltdown McCown is just going to keep being a punching bag.

Maintaining leverage was one of his weaknesses when coming out of the draft. And why wouldn't he fit as a 4-3 DT? Rubin seems to be of a similar mold and he seems to fit just fine in a 4-3.

Shelton looks like a creampuff at this point

I hate to be overly simplistic, but maybe he's just too fat? He looks very slow and out of shape; he's rarely on the field for more than a play or two at a time. He needs to get it down to around 320 and hit the weights, imo.

that was my thought every time I saw him...he needs to be more physical and less soft...I had to laugh on the play where he landed late on the pile..that was funny in slow-mo

He needs Sumo Wrestling Training.

LOL, it looked like slo-mo in real time ... he almost left the ground, like a blimp lifting off the airfield.

Peen, I'm not sure I'm blaming Scheiner. But having worked in dysfunctional environments many times, a lot of that is born from not clearly defining roles and responsibilities, then once defined, not holding people to staying in their lane and being accountable for their responsibilities. When you have someone at the top that cares about these things and puts a stop to it, that helps everyone function in the manner in which they are supposed to do. When you have an enabler, you have dysfunction. Dysfunction is not good for any business or organization although I would guess that some level of dysfunction exists in at least 95% of the organizations worldwide. Why? Because people are imperfect creatures. It takes strong leadership to instill a culture with little dysfunction.

There have been whispers for weeks that Scheiner is not staying in his lane. Why was Scheiner, the lead business guy, accompanying Haslam and Farmer into the locker room last night? That makes no sense. Dysfunction breeds dysfunction and when it starts at the top, the only solution is to cut the head off the monster and start over. Unfortunately, we can't get rid of Haslam.

If Haslam really believes in Scheiner, make him the top guy, business and football, and let him hire his GM and coach.

I'm not saying JFF is the answer yet, but the first half looked promising. We were balanced, we ran the ball against the blitz for good gains, we used short crossing routes to get the ball down the field, JFF made plays on the move. I mean 2 scoring drives one for 72 yards and the other 92 yards. It was working. Then Pettine and his second half genius showed up..completely abandoned the run, allowing cinci to just pin their ears back and expose our line for what it really is..average. Not a single NFL quality skill player on offense outside of Johnson..our recievers all suck. Until that gets fixed and we commit to running the ball consistently it doesn't matter who the qb is. Happened with mccown too, abandon the run..Hell last game Mccown was the leading rusher with 18 yards. This staff is clueless. Everyone bags on Bowe. But to be honest, its the staff that chooses to play him or not..he looked fine last night, actually fighting for yards. Something our wr can't do because they are little children sized. Give either Qb a reliable target on the outside and I think you'll see more production. You can't just throw a ball outside with 5'7 wr and think they are going to outjump or muscle a cb or safety. What would have been the smart thing is to run PA, rollout and put jff on the move and let the small quick receivers run sideline to sideline and get behind the defense. Keep JFF in the pocket and allow the defense to man up and jam the little guys at the line and you have the second half.

Should have just kept Joe Banner if that was the plan. At least he had some football experience.

watched the game when i got home this morning and it was about what we expected. Johnny did some good things, missed some throws but got very little help. Pet wants johnny to stay in the pocket and so does Marvin Lewis lol

Thought our run game was working well and we completely abandon it.

horrible defense once again. I dont give a damn about the roster Farmer has acquired, thats no excuse for what this D is doing on the field. This defense has a hell of a lot of talent on it and they are undisciplined, unmotivated and often look lost as to what they are supposed to be doing. I freaking hate this defense.

Gabriel killed us. Has been a favorite but he wont make the roster next year and will lucky to be given these final games to turn it around.

What is with guys slipping. I swear our players slip and slide more than any team in football. receiver makes a cut slip. DB backpedals stops slips.

Anyway, it was what we expected. JOhnny will not play again if Pet has his way. Very good team on a short week and I get the feeling pet puts all the blame on his young QB.

Pet is really starting to look like a total lame duck coach.

I was having a conversation with my dad during the game last night ... if you were coming in as the new GM/Coach/Etc, what players would you value that we'd already have?

If it were me, the plan would be this on offense:

- Determine which QB is my preference (Goff, Lynch, Cook) and draft him in the top 5 (yes, we'll be there)
- Keep Thomas, Bitonio, Erving, Greco, Schwartz as the OL ... Mack's obviously gone
- Pray to God that Gordon can contribute and be reliable (that's a stretch)
- Offer Barnidge and Benji above average deals ... looking to draft a WR to pair with the new QB, Hawkins, Gabriel, and Hardline
- Cut Bowe
- Role with Duke, Crow, and a late round pick/FA RB

Anyone care to throw in their thoughts on the defense (good luck)

I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking.