DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Bengals 31 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

The Good:

We started running the ball pretty effectively.

We didn't turn the ball over.

Duke Johnson looks like a real player.

Our defense showed some life.

Manziel didn't wet the bed like the last time he played them.

The Bad:

Our speed at linebacker.

Our size.

Stupid penalties, especially by veterns that should know better.

The refs swallowing their whistles in the Bengal's favor.

Manziel's inability to throw the ball unless he's falling back, to the side, or doing cartwheels. The only time he did throw passes with two feet on the ground he lacked touch.

Sadly, Andy Lee's first poor game.

The Ugly:

The fact that it appears that we ran the ball once in the second half. (Was that play calling, or audibles?)

Our strength, we're never driving people to the ground (except for Starks and then we taunt them).

The inability for our secondary to gel. Have we had two consecutive games with the same 4 DB's starting?

I'll also throw in that it's pretty ugly that our fans are calling for this team to be blown up again. There's plenty of room for improvement but we have got to give our second year head coach and GM time to get it figured out. That's the pact the Browns made when they hired them and let them hire inexperienced coordinators and to dismantle that all over again would be crazy.

Mourg. , what Pettine said about Johnny at half time blew me away ! I'll say one thing for Johnny ; he played the way Pettine wanted him to in the second half ..lol

PS ; When do you think Haslam will come out of hiding ?

Three big questions that have been bothering me this year:

1. Why does our OL suck so badly? Every "expert" calls them elite, and I think they suck
2. Why can we never, ever, ever stop the run?
3. Why do we never, ever, ever make adjustments?

On top of that, we have Duke making plays ... and then never heard from again? WTF

I think this answer is very simple, and I have talked about this several times before.

Teams do not game plan for our passing game. Teams "sell out for the run". What does that mean? It doesn't always mean putting 8 or 9 in the box. It means they don't respect the passing game and instead focus on the running game. There are no special considerations made to defend the pass. Teams don't allow themselves to get caught up in guessing what the Browns are going to do. They sell out for the run, and on the oft chance that the Browns make them pay through the air, they know they won't be able to do it for an entire game. It's a calculated risk. This is why the OL looked terrible with Frye and great with DA. Once the passing game was established with DA (i.e., he made teams pay), teams had to play both the run and the pass. Coincidentally, Lewis went off that year, and DA was barely sacked.

You can't have a team respect the pass with a 36 year old journeyman, loser QB. And they aren't going to respect the pass with a rookie or second year Manziel until he proves he can make people pay.

It's a really simple answer. Their is absolutely nothing wrong with this OL. With the right QB, they are easily elite.

Our coaching staff are a bunch of inexperienced guys. They are not leaders. They are "check the box" coaches. Did we have a practice? Yes. But the real question should be what the hell did we work on in practice. Did we do our "install" (I hate that word)? Yes. But the real question should be are we putting our guys in the best position to succeed.

They aren't thinkers. They aren't going to "out strategy" the opponent. They aren't going to get guys to play for them. I knew this was going to happen by how training camp went. Pettine made sure all the boxes were checked ... did we practice, did I give guys days off, did we do our "install" ... etc. ... but what was really worked on. From what I can tell, no one knows what was really accomplished in practice.

I just think it's less about adjustments and more they just really don't know what the hell they are doing.

I just have to continue along the lines of what both you and Vers are saying here.

What we see is the coaching staff taking a square peg and putting it in a round hole. A split between the FO and the coaching staff as to the type of QB they want. If the coaching staff wanted more of a pocket passer, both Bridgewater and Carr were left on the board.

I was shocked by Pettine's comments and we saw the results of JFF trying to stay in the pocket in the second half. We saw what happens when you try make Johnny, not be Johnny. You can't negate what a QB does well and try to re-create him.

It's obvious to me that the coaching staff and their O scheme, is not conducive to having a QB like JFF. It's obvious they have no desire to put a scheme in tact to take advantage of JFF's skill set. It's obvious this FO had no desire or intention to draft the type of QB the coaching staff wanted. So we are where we are with that.

Now to the thread. Really kind of a rehash of what others have said.

THE GOOD;

JFF when he was allowed to be himself. No, he wasn't the greatest QB I've seen, however, there looked to be enough hope and improvement in him to have something to work with and see if he progressed.

The Bryant's. When asked to do what their skill sets determine their ability to be, they looked the part of productive NFL players. When they were asked to do what they really aren't capable of doing? Not so much.

The Crow. When there was somewhere to go, he went there. The first half was a clear indication of what a RB can do if you allow a RB to get into a rhythm. Not a world beater, but productive none the less.

Duke out of the backfield as a pass catcher looked great.

THE BAD;

Shanked punts.

JFF when the coaching staff stifled him from being himself.

Our secondary. I know they were injured and banged up, but I believe it's painfully obvious why Gilbert isn't getting playing time. Gipson played well below his talent level.

UGLY;

The talent level of this team.

The coaching staffs continuing decision to ask our players to play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths.

I could continue with other things but I've grown very apathetic. I'm at the point I hope for wins, but expect losses. I no longer get angry when we lose. That makes it much harder to study the game or try to make constructive posts which threads like this deserve.

I think I prefer when you all are telling me how clueless I am. Man, this is depressing.

Damn dude, you are clueless.


Happy?

Thanks.

Just brining a smile wherever I can.

Lee's inconsistency has been noted by some. In this dumpster fire of a team, criticizing a punter may be a stretch. But it is legitimate. Since Lee is generally well liked by the office and the locker room, nobody has listened to the few that point out: while Lee is overall good, the inconsistency really hurts.

The Good
- I worked and missed most of the game.

The Bad
- It was a 15 hour shift and I was on my feet all day.

The Ugly
- How I looked yesterday morning heading in for another 10 hours on my feet.

Glad I made the effort to make this thread this week.

I'm glad you did, too.

I really had trouble contributing to it this week.

It was just too hard. And I didn't want to waste time being frustrated about my team's performance. They pretty much wore me out, Vers. I was exhausted. Not even mad. Just really, really tired. Every time I clicked to start something, I'd hear myself say: "Do you really even care enough to type something out?"

Any time you find yourself actually asking that, the answer is pretty obvious.

That's me in a nutshell Clem. I seem to lack the passion to care enough to think my way through what I really feel about team issues.

I've blamed the dolts, and they are legion, but the truth is, it's not them, it's me. I barely care enough to watch the games. It's so depressing.

Sometimes I wonder if my life in general would be more satisfying if I didn't have this millstone hanging around my neck throughout the season.

I'm on this board everyday hoping to read something positive but the team just won't allow it.

You make your post every week and a lot enjoy it but if you're posting for more than yourself, you probably shouldn't post it. People have different ideas, histories and motivations and you can't control their output. Once you hit send the post takes a life of it's own.

But you already know all this.

the good: the browns won't be playing 3 out of the next 4 Sundays

it's so much more enjoyable to just watch games without any aggravation

I get where you and ddbub are coming from. I really do.

I don't so much care if the thread takes on a different life of it's own, I just wish we could talk more about the football side rather than board personalities.

Heck, I even put some time into talking about our defensive issues. I misread 32's question, but still, you would think that there would be something in my post about the defense that people would want to talk about. No one did. Instead we get this crap about Andy Lee and other junk.

Maybe next week I'll start a thread called The Sad, The Mad, and The Miserable.

I dont need a thread just about me!!!!!!!!

I wasn't talking about you. You did respond earlier. It was the other guy.

Sorry, since I didn't see much of the game, I just tried to be light-hearted with my post.

I did read through the entire thread before I posted, though...

He cost the Niners a game last year against St. Louis. Again supposedly nice guy, overall good, but screws up at worst possible moment... not that this year his screw ups will matter much.

I do not respond to ad hominem attacks nor name-calling. I will just say that your boy Lee has some really bad luck as shanks happen to him at the worst times. I will also say by the way you yourself post, we have vastly different views on the Cleveland Browns.

I'm just going to go with the ugly, as this is the play that cost us the game. The double reverse.

I don't know about the rest of you, but that play was about as obvious as the bengals could make it. I was screaming double reverse at the TV.

I watched Gipson and Cooper over pursue 10 yards to the inside, and they weren't even looking into the backfield. Once again, no one was playing their position on the outside to force the run back in. I've been able to teach 7-11 year olds to play their position and not chase a play, why can't these 'pros' do it?

I thought Cincy called that against the perfect defense. Cooper has never played contain going back to college where he was a 3-4 end and we had him out at the edge of the defense.

And for the record, that's a reverse, not a double reverse.

No. Obviously your boy as I typed. I am not a homer fan. Simply because a special teamer schmoozes the locker room and is cordial to the comptroller on Wednesdays, I assess other things before taking "ownership" of anybody. JT might have been "my boy" as it were, though this year is a different story. Also his agent seems to be getting more influential with the temper tantrum at Tony Rizzo criticism. Right now possessive "ownership" of factions of players, and over-sensitive egotism to those who think differently than you, are what erodes a fan base during these times. In the next 15 years maybe before the stadium lease is up, that may no longer be a problem.

The thing about that play that I noticed as that Gipson instead of planting his foot and chasing down the play, he spun away from it and looped around, probably adding 30 yards he had to run to just watch the touchdown.

Adderall Joe has pulled that on occasion too.

It's painfully obvious that Pettine doesn't want to use JM's talent and strengths. At every opportunity he points to JM as a weak link and never owns up to the coaching staff faults. The last three games have shown weaknesses in the coaching staff and he never owns up to it. You are also a weakness to the team right now.

Pettine, time to own up to your faults and admit to being an un-experienced NFL coach. These games are on you as the Brown's HC. You may wish and say you're all in it together but you are losing the locker room, staff, and fans faster then you are losing games.

What gives you that indication? The fact that we are going to start McCown (if healthy) on Sunday?

The fact that JFF did well in the first half, and going into half time, all Pettine did was criticize him for leaving the pocket. That wasn't necessary to sit there on national TV and critique a young QB who was doing pretty well to that point. It was uncalled for and I've never been a big JFF fan.

I didn't have to read the quote, I watched him say it on television... he said Manziel made some plays outside the pocket (stressing OUTSIDE), but that he needed to be move productive inside the pocket...

I read an article that showed a number of plays Manziel missed in the first half against the Bengals, there were guys open and he didn't throw them the ball, choosing to run around instead... some of them ended up being positive plays anyway... but the fact is that he DID miss a number of open guys. I just don't see how he is going to learn to correct that on the sidelines watching McCown.

I heard it live as well. No matter the words he used, I didn't see the need for the comments at all.

And no, he's not going to get better by riding the pines.

(Heck, the benches probably aren't made of pine anymore anyway.)

One of the quotes I read from an article posted on here Pettine said to/about Johnny, "If you don't know what the defense is doing extend the play until you do."