DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Does anyone actually like this current roster and it's lack of character.

Did anyone notice the body language of the defense tonight?
Why wasn't Randy Starks benched after making rookie mistakes?
What is up with a celebration after making a routine play
When your down by 3 TDS?
The oline is undisiplined.
WRS dropping easy passes.
Vets getting days off when they don't deserve it.
I can't see how any body can look at this roster and say theirs a future or foundation here.
Their is no leadership.no accountability.
Guys are just happy getting a paycheck.
Players are regressing...i.e Gabriel Bitonio.

I don't agree with almost any of your complaints. I think you're just frustrated and venting. We'll be ok.

What are you talking about? This team is in total disarray. From the top down this franchise is in deep trouble.

Is that kinda like "take 2 pills and call me in the morning"?

Might be a little deeper than "we'll be ok".

Since 1999 I hate this team more than any other.

At least in years past I'll have a few guys to root for or something to watch for ... now I'm just apathetic

A tale of 2 halves...
First half - We had more passing yards and the same rushing yards as Cin...Cin scored both TD's after going for it on 4th down...take away the offsides and half score if 10/10...we hung with them until the second half - so was it talent or lack of adjustments?

We lack less character than we lack discipline. I'm so sick and tired, just fed up, with the amount of bone head penalties this team gives up game after game, most happen in crunch time.

It's to the point where we defeat ourselves, our biggest opponent is ourselves and our biggest enemy... again, ourselves. It's a joke.

Regardless of what Pettine said, all things being equal, take away the offsides and we are winning 10-7. It was 4th down, they didn't get to try a FG after that.

There is more to being undisciplined than just jumping offsides. How many times do we miss calls and allow free rushers? Seems to have a lot more to us than it does for us.

Yes, overall our discipline (and sometimes its scheme) is a problem and it stands out because we have such a small margin for error. We made 1 really good hard tackle the whole game it seemed like and we celebrated our way to a penalty. Lining up in the neutral zone and 4th and 1 is bush league, middle school kids should know better. Running a kick off out of the endzone and getting to the 8? Stupid. Having a WR coming across underneath covered by a DE? Good plan. 2 or 3 dropped passes that would have been easy first downs. Things are going to happen, we just aren't good enough to overcome them when they happen to us.

Nope. Aside from Joe Thomas I don't care if the entire roster is gone. Have zero interest in any of them. That includes Johnny. Clean the slate and lets begin yet again.

It is hard to believe you can be that bad for so long when you made a strong effort to improve there. It defies logic.

Realistically, how much turnover can this team expect if it wants to improve? Are we talking 15 players? And regardless of the number, who do you REALLY want to keep as the Browns go into 2016?

We need an elite pass rusher. I'd prefer two. We need a WR that can catch double digit TD's and 80 balls. And when Mack leaves we will probably need a center. I would guess that 15 really GOOD players would help this team a lot. Especially at pass rush and skill positions. We are VERY linebacker poor. We need a stud corner. And last but not least we really need to find a long term answer at QB. Without him we will never be great. I'd take a guy like Dalton but I'd wish for a Brady

Before the last couple weeks I'd have said keeping Mack would top the list but he seems to be phoning it in looking toward next year being elsewhere. While I can't blame him for not wanting to be here I can blame him for half-assing it. While I do firmly believe that our blocking scheme is to blame for a lot of our O-line woe, some of these guys don't seem to be giving it there all either. Our line was pretty damned good last year. Quite a fall from that to this.... Especially considering we spent a first round pick on the line this year....

Who do I want to keep? Gipson. He's a player. I'd keep Haden until I found someone better. And you can bet I'd be looking for someone better. Obviously Joe Thomas. The rest depends on what systems we will be running. I'm pretty certain I'd find a place for Duke. As a receiver he's showing enough I'd keep him around.

Everyone else is up for discussion. I have no idea what we will be running so who fits and who doesn't is an unknown at the moment...

we need a LEGIT threat at WR ... someone who commands attention from the safety and can hit huge plays

we need a LEGIT threat at RB ... someone who commands extra attention in the box and can hit huge plays

we need a LEGIT pass rusher (or two) ... someone who can get a the QB from different angles and makes the OL concerned

we need a LEGIT corps of LB ... a few guys who can cover sideline to sideline and fill in the run game


and lastly we need a LEGIT QB ... yeah, this is the tough one

Man, I would love to have a thumper at LB. I can't remember the last time we have a stud at ILB.

As for the QB, I think people are writing Manziel off too quickly. I hope he gets the rest of the year to show whether he can continue to improve or not. Patience and development would be nice for a change.

So realistically we need about 8 good players. I count a RB, WR, 2 pass rushers 2or3 LB's and a QB which we may have. Also a center depending on what happens. Good luck the way we've been drafting.

I don't see it as that many. I was a big fan of Pettine, but that is changing. I think our O has played well enough to have a better record. The D is a major flaw. We moved a few players that was maybe a mistake. Our scheme, which is Pettines, or being run incorrectly by his hand picked D coordinator.

Improvements in the O happened this year. I have no problem keeping Pettine, but only if we revamp the D and bring in a new coordinator. Something is not clicking on that side of the ball. Mike has to decide if he wants to be a head coach or go back to being a defensive coordinator with some other team if he insists on keeping things the same.

Yeah I mean... who in their right mind will have Armonty Bryant covering a freaking WR? Whoever drew that play up, a f'n d-linemen being asked to do that, is just an idiot. That's just one example of so many flaws of this defense.

That was a great post eo'. Beats the hell out of this guy sucks, that guy sucks, coaches suck with no beef to back any of it up.

You said a lot of good stuff there that can be learned from if people read it for understanding rather than to find points to dispute. Of course, there are points to dispute, but there's far more information to be gotten if read with the purpose of learning instead of bickering.

You described the Browns to a Tee !!

LOL ! Sorry had to do that ddubia...

Somewhere along the way they decided they liked to play Bryant as a backer in some situations. The Bengals obviously liked that idea as well.

Teams have done that for a long time. I can remember Rubin covering a WR or RB on occasion, when he was here.

Nice post - I like how you break it down so folks like me can understand! Thank you!

Question - how do you rate our LB talent vs. the LB schemes we run? When I watch, out LB play, well, they don't always seem sure of what they are doing...sometimes they look a little lost. I am wondering if discipline or complexity or scheme may be the issues?

This D is not as good as most of us thought but I don't believe it is as bad as it has played. I feel a lot of it is the system and the coaching. We still need about 3 or 4 better players on it than we have but I don't think it is a total rebuild.

Cause people run against us???

I don't see why that was directed to me...cause I'm the only one not looking to Piss on our Roster?

We don't play the run? Game Plans for us is to stop the Air game? Chris Johnson was the leading Rusher in the NFL we held him well under his average.

Its a complicated read D??? that would only benefit us if we keep the continuity so that all are there as in a 2nd nature and new guys can get taught up with the discipline quicker and continue with the discipline.

Results are the facts.

The Browns are at the bottom or near the bottom of every defensive category.

Passing defense 31st.
Rushing defense 32nd
Receiving defense 29th
Total Points against 32nd
Total defense 32nd

Discipline, talent, complicated?, need continuity..

Game Plan against the pass? Not working.

Really I don't know where your point is. The fact is the defense is the worst in the NFL. It has been unable to stop the rush for many years under different regimes.

The defense has high draft picks. They have expensive veteran free agents. They have a mixture of age groups. They have had the same "defensive" head coach and his hand picked DC.

What has changed?

You construct a scheme. You coach the players into the scheme. You add players to fit the scheme.

Attack defense, read and react defense, complicated defense: what I want to see is results.

Upgrade the talent? Apparently
Better coaching? Yes
Different scheme? Anything that provides the results

If your answer is continuity why?
Where are the improvements?

I am all for continuity "if" there are improvements.

Something has to happen if the Browns are ever going to get better.

Some one or more than one person has to be held accountable. People are measured by results. If the results do not improve then change is going to happen.

In the last three games the Browns have been outscored 55-3 in the second half.

Do you just accept that? And say all is well?

Something is wrong somewhere.

This defense has no teeth to it.
Ii doesn't play angry or violent.
Too many vets got big contracts.
They are happy content.
and when they make a play they celebrate.why?
teams have run up and down on the Browns front 7 all year.
and heres the thing..good QBs can pick apart this back 7.
Palmer and Dalton have shown that. Offenses can either run the ball or pass at will.
the Bryants have impressed. thats about it.
Shelton is a cupcake. One guy can wash him out.
the Browns LBs just aren't cutting it.
They get blocked so easily and have issues shedding blocks.
I'm not impressed with Tremon Williams.
His best days were in GB.
I wasn't sold in the preseason with this defense. and I was right.
very few Browns guys on the D side could start for another AFC North team.

So, we have a front 7 AND a back 7 ?

Wow, I didn't know we were THAT bad.

I haven't been on here all year. There is absolutely nothing positive with this team.

This team's roster sucks. This team's roster has sucked. This team's roster will continue to suck.

I'm having a fire sale on ebay of all my memorabilia. Some of it dates back to the early 60's. I'm done.

The worst part of this season was these bozos even trying to trade away Joe Thomas the only shining bright thing this franchise has done in 16 years. I wonder what they're putting in the water in Berea.

Our little battlers could have 30 guys out there on D and still give up 130+ on the ground.

Yes when you rush 4 you drop 7 in coverage.
The fact remains this defense is soft all around.
No one plays with a nasty streak.
It's a cupcake defense

Shelton covering the slot makes sense too. Just silly cover schemes. Nice playbook. Lousy production. Change the thinking some. And help Gilbert.

The way we play D the league should allow us to play with 2 extra guys. It's like we're handicapped or something.

I am a proponent of continuity. Always have been. I don't think a regime should be expected to make huge improvements, but they certainly should not regress and blow multiple draft picks and make dumb free agency decisions.

I think it would be a huge mistake to retain Farmer!!!

Last time we had a stud at ILB was Pepper Johnson and he was on the down side of his career. Still he was a banger inside...

Damn.
That's depressing as hell.

Change your screen name... unless it was chosen with bitter irony in mind-

These people are killing me with taking a guy that is good-great at his position and moving home to another one.