DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Playing Johnny its a start (Terry Pluto)

In that line of thought, since year over year you should be keeping the same playbook - just expanding and adjusting it, would it not make sense that whomever finishes up this year will be the lead gong into next season? I guess you can make the case that since Josh is developing timing and rhythm with the receivers, next year he will just continue. If Johnny is not the answer next year, he never will be since next year is #3 of 4 on contract. So that makes Josh the lead next year and either we go after a FA / trade, we will be drafting the next starting QB in the next draft. That makes Josh the starter for the next 2 years or so it would seem...

i understand earning a job, but i don't want a guy playing who isn't the future at the QB position. we aren't a team in a position to be letting guys sit and learn. and i'm not sure McCown is the right guy to learn from.

Let me be the first to say it

Peyton Manning with retire at the end of the season to take the GM position here in Cleveland. He'll hire his own HC and Coaching staff and in one year, he'll turn the franchise around and we'll go to the superbowl..



Actually, it's been reported more than once that Haslam and Manning are close. So how far fetched is it to believe he could end up here in some capacity?

The bottom line is that the most important decision the Browns face will be the first round draft choice in 2016. Playing Manziel will help with that decision. Not playing Manziel makes the decision more difficult.

I honestly can't tell you if Manziel is the QB or is not the QB. But sitting him will not help the Browns.

I just don't understand how people cannot see this. It makes no sense to continue with McCown at this point. If we were in a playoff hunt, sure - I'd be ticked if they put Johnny in. We are not going anywhere, time to start planning for next year (as usual).

'And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on"

You aren't even close to being the first person to suggest this.

It's called buying into the FO BS... Every season we pick up nobodies and has beens and are told this is our guy.

It becomes an automatic to think the QB change in the middle of the season is a bad thing because it goes against the hopes that the has been is our savior because he is playing decent even when we have a losing record..

It's the Browns.. It's normal for a mid season QB change.

We have so many QB changes because never have a good QB.

Will the day come when we do ? Gosh I hope so and soon.. If not there may be a mass murdering on this board..

Hey we want pass rushers but we have armonty and kruger covering wide receivers lol Brilliant!! I have been a major pet defender but these things he is doing and saying are just mind boggling to me. Its about as stupid as running wide receiver screens and having Benji be the key blocker. Wait we have seen that and no one but the coachess were surprised at the results.

Its just insanity in some of these decisions we are making. If this is from one of Pet's defenders i hate to think what some of his detractors are saying.

My thoughts on Manziel:

I called him a bust last year. He was a complete trainwreck.

This year? Different guy. I think he has a lot of potential to be a really good starting QB. He's got electricity when he plays - but - he is a high risk player. Not of getting injured so much as of him not stopping drinking. I think he is an addict. I've lived the life, I know. I don't know what his drug of choice is, but always remember last year. He shouldn't drink. Period.

I don't know how often he drinks, but he already had that incident happen with his gf a couple of weeks ago. BAD SIGN. It bummed me out he's drinking again - even if it's just a causal drink.

You know what they say, the only thing worse than an alcoholic is an alcoholic with money, and he has plenty.

He needs to get off the sauce if he really wants a chance of being all that he can become. JMHO

Reply to those complaining that Johnny didnt win the job.

Tom Brady did not beat out anyone to become the starter in New England. Big Ben did not beat out anyone to be the starter. Peyton Manning did not beat out anyone to earn his first starting gig either.

its is rare that a young QB actually wins a QB competition to be given the job. Johnny looked better than McCown in preseason and in camp and there wasnt any real difference between he and hoyer in camp last year.

To be fair, Mourg, they got their starting jobs due to injury, and we're good enough to not let it go.

i dunno if thats a fair comparison bro as McCown has been able to come back.

Have we had ANY players do this, ever? I mean, broaden it, of course, to players we've drafted and even ones we have played.... has ANYONE ever left here when they sucked and then really lit it up with another team? I can't think of anyone. We're pretty skilled at simply finding the guys that really do suck.

We've had guys leave here and be as mediocre elsewhere as they were here, but I don't think anyone has left here and studded-out. They (very) few guys that have left here and done anything at all are usually the guys like Ward who simply do elsewhere what they did here but tend to look better doing it surrounded by a better team and a better record.

sheard and skrine are playing really good ball right now.

Bolded for emphasis. That kinda make a HUGE difference.
Manziel has gotten to start due to injury same as those others.... he just hasn't - so far - been good enough to keep/take the job, and we're talking about taking it from a twice concussed, hobbled, journeyman backup.

If nothing else, at this point they may as well start Manziel for the TV ratings. Put Haden on IR and let him get his head & ribs right, possibly the same with Whitner. Let those young backups get some time, too.... it can't hurt.

They're just doing what they did here, though...it's not like we gave up on them before they began to play at this level.

Sheard is just getting back to the system he was meant to play in and Skrine is back to being in the Slot role where he always excelled (and was really cut out for).

I'm not saying that anyone has left and been awesome - I'm just saying that it would be something that would happen to us. Looking for a QB for 16 years and then let one go. I don't think it will happen, as I don't think Johnny has the skill set - I just want to see if he does. I think it would be prudent for the organization to do so as well.

Agreed. I have always maintained that JH can analyze a business problem with the best of them, better than I. However, though JH might be aware of a football problem, properly analyzing it and coming up with solutions is not his thing. He is not even a Jerry Jones. That is why Alec is the only one he trusts because they speak the same language. He and the football side really don't right now.

Whether or not we or the press, or the front office for that matter, want to "see what we've got" in Johnny or Gilbert or whoever, the fact remains you hire coaches to win games. It's counter to everything they are to play regular season games as a field test. I agree with Pluto and most of you that we need to assess what we've got and I'd prefer to just see the younguns play at this point, but I think it's a scorpion and frog parable type thing to expect an NFL coach (who definitely feels some heat) to not try to win right now with what he feels are his best players right now. He is going to be the last guy to give up the season... as it should be. So short of a direct order from Haslam I'd expect Pett to play who he feels gives us the best chance right up to the last bloody second.

This is part of the problem with the organization. Pettine should feel at ease with playing the young guys, regardless of results, for the betterment of the long-term future of the team. This is not a novel concept. Every team in the league does this except the Browns. Haslam should guarantee Pettine his job no matter what, but get the young guys, especially Manziel, real live game reps. This is the only way they are going to get better. If Manziel is the guy you've pegged as the long term future of your team, you have to play him.

Only in Cleveland would fans actually prefer to lose with a 36 year old journeyman QB over their first round draft pick, denying him valuable game reps. Ridiculous notions like "earning it" and believing he can get the opportunity to compete for the job once the season has begun is idiotic at best. But Manziel is an extremely polarizing figure and the people that use those reasons just really don't care for Manziel personally.

Personally, I don't care what he's like as a person. I just want to win football games for a long time. There is nearly zero chance to win a game with McCown now. There is exactly zero chance to win with McCown long term. It's a dumb plan, and now the Browns are paying the price for it.

Haslam should mandate Pettine play Manziel and guarantee him his job no matter what. But I truly believe Haslam wants to move on from Pettine. If he didn't, he would have already mandated this. He's going to let Pettine hang himself with his own rope.

The hate for Manziel on here is amazing.

How about we give him a chance before y'all call him a bust?

Like you did with Nate Orchard?

Absolutely spot on post. To piggy back, Jags owner Shahid Khan came out a couple weeks back and stated he understands the importance of continuity and the growth process of a young team and regardless of record, Bradley would be the coach for at least the next two years.

Leadership starts from the top down. The Browns have absolutely zero leadership.

Looks like Manziel partied at A&M this weekend. There's a pic with some girls where he is holding a beer. Looks like McCown against Pitt.

Manziel just doesn't get it.

And believe it or not, against all odds, Bortles has improved, and he is growing with two bookend WR as well.

The Jags are already better than the Browns with Bortles at QB.

Depressing.

But teams like the Raiders and Jax actually try and get their young qb weapons. Who did we get for Johnny? Gilber, Erving, and Shelton......LMAO

I know nothing about addiction. I don't know what Manziel was in rehab for.

But if he's showing up to work when he's supposed to, doing his job, and showing improvement (which he has), I could care less if he has a beer or five.

Some of the same guys who defend Gordon over and over and over and over, blast JM for not even having one infraction.

Funny how that works.

I agree. We need to get whoever our QB is better weapons on the outside. For sure.

Bernie said he wants the job. Haslam should clean house and hire him.

I am not sure if I am joking or not.

I, personally, don't care either. It seems like the team cares though. And if he keeps making "questionable" decisions off the field he's never going to play.

They personally don't like him. It's no secret. They would rather see him fail because they personally don't like him than to have him succeed for the betterment (second time I've used that word tonight) of the team.

It's amazing. Other than DA, I have never seen a guy that has been treated more harshly by the members of this board than JM.

I am not a huge fan of his and I doubt he makes it, but man, some of these guys are completely unfair.

Vince Mayle.

Dwayne Bowe.

Brian Hartline.

Post the pic of Johnny or don't make the allegation. I looked it up and found nothing.

Oh, and the making him earn it thing is a bunch of hot garbage. If you have to earn it, then bench Haden.

Rishuz 3:16...

I'm all for this idea. It has worked for Denver so far. I would try to hire Bill Polian as a consultant to Manning. Although I admit one of the reasons I mention Polian is his drafting of Manning but I have no idea what relationship these two have I am only assuming they get along.