DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Playing Johnny its a start (Terry Pluto)

Link:

http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-back-texas-am/

Blond girl, top photo, on left, looks great.

I don't think anyone will disagree that McCown has played better than anticipated. IMO, he was brought in to be a transition to Manziel and his job could be "lost" at anytime. If the guy was 26 instead of 36 there would be no doubts on continuing to start him, but at his age it is time to see if there is any sort of future with Johnny. If we were even close to sniffing the playoffs you keep Josh in as well, however the season is done, play the young guys.

Just my opinion, and I agree with Vers that the hatred of Johnny is unreal. I also think that Johnny will likely not succeed but we need to find out.

Do we know for certain JFF was in alcohol rehab, or something else?

Maybe a better question is..WHAT HAS JOHNNY DONE TO WIN THE STARTING JOB?

There is a case to be named that for alcoholics, total abstinence is not the only answer:


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-addiction/201103/abstinence-is-not-the-only-option

Being a first round draft pick.

This "win the job" stuff is ludicrous. Very few highly drafted QB's win the job - it is given to them because they are supposed to be the future. They need real experience to do this. In his 2 starts this year he hasn't looked like a train wreck and actually did some pretty good things IMO. He has a TON to work on, but Josh is not the future - if the FO doesn't think Johnny is the future too then just cut him, no reason to fill a roster spot.

a young QB can only prove so much in practice or film work. Eventually he needs to show what he can do on game days over a period of time.

Just in case anyone wants to read the text of the post on BroBible ...



JOHNNY’S BACK! — Johnny Manziel Went Back To Texas A&M This Weekend And Chicks LOVED Him
By Brandon Wenerd • 11.09.15

Despite all those Snickers commercials, it feels like forever since Johnny Manziel has been himself. In this context, “himself” has nothing to do with football — it’s about unleashing the inner-party animal that made him a legend in college. You know — the Manziel who partied with hot FSU chicks and crashed a Texas fraternity party wearing a Tebow jersey.

It’s been a weird road for Johnny since joining the NFL. The Vegas trips aren’t as frequent. There was a the fight he got in when an overzealous Browns fan allegedly tried to hug him in his apartment building. There was a domestic dispute with his girlfriend. There was the two-month stint in drug and alcohol rehab at the beginning of this year.

But now Manziel appears to be back to having fun again. After the Browns lost on Thursday night to Cincinnati, Johnny headed down to College Station to watch the Aggies lose to Auburn.

He did what all postgraduate Bros do upon returning to their alma mater to relive their glory years — party his face off (that’s a Stella in his hand, right?), hang out with random A&M alumni girls who loved his every move, and generally act like a big swinging d*** around campus. And of course, pics were captured on social media.

I’m sure some football snobs will get on a high horse about Manziel leaving Cleveland for the weekend and focusing on anything other than football. But I don’t think this is a big deal at all — It’s not like he was raging drunk or spotted in public with Justin Bieber and Drake getting twerked on by porn stars. He was just letting his hair down for a fun weekend at a place he considers home. Everyone deserves a vacation. No harm, no foul.

Love the move with the chain. That’s classic a Johnny Football 1.0 move.

It’s great to have you back, bro.


http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-back-texas-am/

Agreed.


Agreed - and what has Johnny done this year that shows he doesn't deserve a chance. I personally think this coaching staff is clueless - see the halftime interviews of Pettine and Lewis. Both said they need to keep Johnny in the pocket - thanks for doing what the Bengals wanted Mike. They are also supposed to be defensive geniuses, that is working out well. Do you really trust this staffs evaluation skill set?


Last I checked both of our QB's have the same number of wins. As I stated, McCown has put up good numbers but that has not translated into wins - mostly not his fault, but rather a crappy defense, but winning QB's overcome this somehow. Not saying Johnny is that, but it is time to see if he does.

These debates, as usual, are futile as no one is going to change there opinion. I just feel a lot of the reason people don't what Johnny to play is because they don't like him as a person.

He came to Cleveland mac, where the coaches and FO are just here temporarily and the fans run everything.

he is a turnover machine, a sack machine. if the defense played better it woould just give him more time to turn the ball over. he does make a FINE tackle dummy though.

Well, it doesn't hurt to have an adoring, lap-dog media in College Station, but I also don't see it as a big deal. I don't care if he drinks, but I also don't know the reason for his rehab or if he's supposed to be abstaining.

Do this season's stats substantiate your statement?

I figure with Pitt coming up and knowing that if you beat Pitt it goes a long way in keeping you employed in Cleveland, if McCown is mostly healthy, I don't see Pettine giving the reins to Manziel this week.

Absolutely not! He was a train wreck! However, that was last year and he seems to have changed IMO. He has as many wins as McCown and he didn't look horrible in his 2 starts. He has a lot to improve upon, but game experience at this point is what will help.

QB's that were "given" the job off the top of my head:
Bortles
Carr
Bridgewater

I'm sure there are more.

I agree the only way Manziel faces the Stillers is if McCown can't go.

10 turnovers in 6 games and one drive. you tell me.

shown some progress from last year. hey i am not a fan of johnny but we will never win games with mccown so why not?

He didn't beat out McCown at TC because there was essentially no competition. Pett declared him the starter last spring - and rightly so - so therefore, JFF not "taking the job" is a moot point.

I can't believe there are still people who want to start McCown on a 2-7 team.

It's not "a case to be made" in my experience. It's an indisputable fact of recovery, and it goes both ways; it doesn't matter what the substance was that got you there - once you get to the point where you need rehab, they're ALL THE SAME THING to your brain.

Okay so if they were just given the job, which players were beating them out in training camp? Which camps were you at personally?

That same article also says, that such a system is not a good idea for someone that abuses more than one substance and we have pictures of at least 2.

j/c:

Does anyone else notice how so many of these topics center on which "side" you are on rather than logic and seeking the truth?

Heck, I had one poster say to me that he didn't see why he should look at things from both sides because that is not how you win a debate. LOL.....it's amazing.

thats because people are more concerned with being right than actually trying to see the problems.

reminds me of our coaching staff/FO.

I wasn't at any of them, but there is no way any recent rookie (with maybe the exception of Luck) would ever beat out an experienced NFL QB. Not going to happen - coaches also need to look at upside when making this determination. If the QB shows some good upside (which Johnny did NOT in his first year) then they should start, as with a journeyman QB you pretty much know what you have already. Just like any job on the planet, real world experience is the key to success. Practice and classroom abilities are important, but actually doing something in the real world shows what you have. To do so opportunity needs to be given.

I know I was given plenty of projects that I was not really ready for when I took a new job in 1998. I was in a class of about 15 new hires and one of the VP's came in and asked the person teaching the class who was doing the best - it was me and the next thing I knew I was on a plane and 2 hours later sitting in front of a client working on a system I knew very little about. You know what? I did it, I succeeded because I was given an opportunity that someone else could have done more effectively and quickly because of experience. That day was a pivotal point in my career, I see Johnny at the same point. He has shown growth and initiative, it's time to give him opportunity.

don't forget Winston and Mariota, both of them are playing really good ball as of late, and they both got handed their jobs at the start.

Nah, they earned those jobs.

The bottom line is the head coach and QB are the only two members of a football team where wins and losses is a part of their stat line.

McCown has failed to produce wins. Make the move.

Some people may like moral victories and say that McCown has played well. Cool....I like wins. Get him out of there.

The truth according to mac, lol. Love it.


And Johnny played pretty good against the Titans. Never got a chance to play again until last week. Sure he was given it.


LMAO - you are going to use a 4th pre-season game as beating someone out?!?


So that one I screwed up on. He did get it because of the foot injury to Cassel.

What about Mariota and Winston?

Look, you aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. If you want McCown starting, more power to you. I for one do not, he is not the future (and again, I don't think Johnny is either, but I would like to see if he is). The season is lost, what on earth will it prove to start McCown on a 2 win football team?

I don't know if you care or not, but I think you are looking at this logically and fairly.

You are probably going to end up w/a headache, though.

Your experience isn't necessarily the be all end all though. I am not knocking or trying to minimize your point of view, just posted that link for discussion. I've had personal experience that is opposite of your line of thinking, to be honest. Drank too much, went to counselling, learned to control it - without complete abstinence.

Still have fun without overdoing it.