DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Playing Johnny its a start (Terry Pluto)

He's old, (for an NFL player) with a young, 1st round pick waiting behind him. This is especially difficult when the young QB is a guy who has shown a little bit of ability .... and the team really needs to know what they have with him.

That is often all it takes for a 36 year old journeyman QB ..... even one who is playing really well ... to lose his job.

The NFL is not always fair ... and when it comes to 1st round QBs, it is often as unfair as can be.

Which he will do - or won't do - with game experience.

IMO, there's no way at the time that you can say Winston was better than Glennon.

Mariota is a bit different, as just a pure talent standpoint he was better than Mettenberg.

But These guys are starting because the league isn't set up anymore for 1st round QB's are crappy teams to just ride the bench. especially teams that suck consistently like the bucs, titans, us(browns) and others.

Remember, flacco was trash at first when he started his rookie season, simply because Troy Smith got sick or something. he didn't earn that job, either.

and i think thats the whole point bro. we're 2-7. we aren't going to the playoffs.

AND at the same time, as far as a management perspective, you HAVE to play your 1st round pick just to see if you need to go into the draft looking at a QB with the first pick or not.

we don't have the luxury of our 1st rounders riding the bench man. some players excel when they're thrown into the fire. some tank.

so far this season, Manziel has the same amount of wins as McCown. i understand our QB play isn't costing us games, but McCown isn't winning us games at the end, either.

As a matter of fact, McCown TO's are way too high. There's a ton of reasons to start Manziel.

honestly, and i understand this thinking, but if it wasn't for manziel's off the field issues, this probably wouldn't even be a discussion.

Thanks Vers. I already have one, lol.

And there is the truth. People do not like Johnny because of that. I can look past a lot of that - and as Vers has stated many times, people give Gordon a pass and he, IMO has done way worse than Johnny. Johnny is immature, but he has grown up quite a bit since last year.

8/15 172 yards. Not exactly decent starter numbers. 60 of those yards came from 1 pass.

We won the game.

this is what i answered mac. you asked me about both. know disrespect but maybe you got confused.

because that right there shows you asked me about mariota.

and we're talking "better" as far as them being handed or earning their starting jobs.

I know for a fact that Winston wasn't handed the starting job!








He stuffed it down his pants and walked out of the store with it.

the only question is if it was crab legs or chicken legs this time.

McCown in the Denver game, chance to win, throws it into a pile of people with the game on the line for no freaking reason whatsover.

Chance to win vs Raiders, looks right at the freaking safety and throws it to him again for what reason?

These are the reasons why I dont want to continue with McCown. His entire career its the same thing.


I dont know if Johnny is going to be any better but he has come a long way taken huge steps towards respectability and is now at the point where he gets better only with starting reps in practice and live game reps. This last game, Hartline out he made really good throws and Gabriel droped a TD throw and 2 or 3 first down throws. Bowe didnt turn around on a back shoulder throw and he had several throws go off Barnidge and Dray's finger tips.

If people arent seeing the kids progression towards becoming our starter then they have some bias against the kid. If he sits the remainder of the season at this point, it is just a waste of an opportunity to improve your young QB.

I agree. It's to the point with Manziel, he needs to just go out and play. It serves no perpose to keep him on the bench.

It's not like we are winning and wanting to make the change. Some people must think we are 7-2, not 2-7.

I see tons of progression. I also see flaws that aren't changeable during the season. If you let him repeat those same flaws over and over again for the second half of the season then congratulations, you just created Charlie Frye 2.0 .

If he is just going to run out of the pocket as soon as he gets the snap, forget about his read progressions and have everyone around him just improvise, he is going backwards and not forwards.

well, let's say Haslam sticks with the "plan"(whatever that is) and doesn't fire anybody.

at 2-7, from a management standpoint-not a FAN standpoint- it doesn't matter if we win anymore games. from a GM standpoint, winning more games means losing ground with having the best possible pick in the draft.

also from a management standpoint, you have to play manziel to see what the plan is.

because from that perspective, if manziel isn't the answer and we lose out, then we have the highest draft pick available to get the best QB.

if manziel shows enough promise, and wins some games? it's easier to be around the 7-15 pick range looking for weapons for manziel.

you understand that, right? it's easier to pick a weapon for manziel at 7-15 range than it is picking a QB from the 7-15 range.

Manziel's latest trip to College Station tells me he's not embracing what it is to be a franchise QB.
If you want to be a franchise QB you have to really really put in the time and dedication.
I don't recall QBs such as Carr,Bridgewater or Dalton going back to their respective colleges
on their days off and partying with attractive women.
You are what you surround yourself with.
I bet teams like the Raiders and Vikings are very happy they picked the QBs they did and not Manziel.
the team is 2-7 and it needs to see what it has at QB so the franchise can determine what to do 2016 and beyond.
The Browns aren't going to the playoffs.
so theres no reason to play McCown.
Manziel doesn't look like he wants to embrace the position. He's more interested in being Johnny Football.not Johnny Franchise QB.
I'd let Austin Davis QB the rest of the reason.
in his brief time as the Rams QB 12 TDs 9 INTs.sacked a whopping 30 times.
the fact he has that TD INT ratio behind that o-line is amazing.
he might be more hungry and dedicated to the position.

i did look it up because i was paying attention to those training camps and such. especially winston because i was hoping the browns would sell the farm to grab him.

at the time, Winston wasn't really beating out Glennon like that. Let's not act like Lovie Smith didn't hand winston the job. he absolutely did. winston was taking the first team reps all throughout training camp.

july 31st was win he was named the starting QB. the preseason didn't even start yet.

Yeah, because no NFL players go party with attractive women while they are on an off weekend. I'm sure a few days off is nice during the grind of an NFL season. What he did over the weekend is a complete non-issue.

In all fairness I am pretty sure I remember Lovie saying that they were going to split first team reps and compete for the starting job shortly after he was drafted. I also thought Winston wasn't looking that great in the beginning, but you or I don't see practice or more importantly coaches film.

And you are telling me I'm making stuff up?!? The biggest conspiracy theorist on the board?

In college.

Because the defense played great.

And because JFF nailed two long TD passes. That um.... helped.

If Johnny happens to play lights out football you still have to draft another QB because Johnny could wind up in a Mexican prison with no idea on how he got there at any time.

If Gordon comes back we'll still need to draft a WR for the same reason.

We need pretty much an entirely new defensive front 7.

We probably need a new power RB.

We need a TE that can block and if Barnidge goes away, maybe one that can catch too.

We need a FB that can block as well as catch.

We need a RT if Schwartz leaves.

So in summation as far as draft planning goes we will need exactly the same things whether or not Johnny plays, doesn't play, plays well, or plays poorly.

Every freakin thing!

Right. But we are losing that game if the defense doesn't shut down the Titans.

As we have seen, our offense can score (sometimes), the defense is what won that Titans game.

Obviously we wouldn't have won without the TD passes.

Don't forget about the reckless driving. Everyone seems to just brush that under the carpet. Passing cars at high speed on the shoulder is dangerous as hell, whether sober as a churchmouse or after only "2 beers".

And the other accounts of his reckless driving.

And this past weekend of partying in his college town.

Yes and no.. They did indeed earn the opportunity to play for an NFL team while in College. Same could be said for Johnny Manzial. He had a stellar career in college

Where they won the jobs was in their first training camps. Had they played like Manziel in camp, I'd have to believe they wouldn't have been handed the keys to the car. Or had their respective teams had reasonable alternatives.

Then I would say that you either aren't an alcoholic/addict, or you're still qualifying as one. For the alcoholic/addict, there isn't a middle ground - there are three distinct options: locked up, sobered up (all substances), or covered up by dirt.

It is never a good thing when someone who was in rehab for God-knows-what starts partying again, even causally, and that's whatever the drug may be, alcohol included. Bad sign.

Sorry purp, we will have to agree to disagree. The opinion in your last post may be correct in many cases of people who drink too much, but not all cases.

I simply have to ask a few questions to those who support the continued starting of McCown. And yes, I've been reading all of your posts.

1. We are at 2-7. McCown has only won one start. So how is continuing to start McCown helping our team?

2. Some have said let JFF earn it. How can a QB "earn" the starting spot during the season with no reps with the 1's in practice?

3. Would it seem wiser to see what we have in JFF this year to better judge the QB position moving forward to next year or will McCown help in that regard?

4. Is the vision of your opinion short term or long term?

I personally feel this FO and coaching staff have already made their mind up about JFF. I feel they've already made their mind up to move forward at the QB position. Let's face it, no team who feels a 1st round draft pick at the QB position has that QB sitting on the bench this long unless they have a Brett Favre type on the roster. It's my contention they have made up their minds.

I believe the answer to that question will be obvious one way or the other moving forward. If they refuse to start JFF and still don't draft a QB next year, I will believe none of them know what they're doing.

I didn't talk about people who are merely heavy drinkers... I said alcoholics/addicts. They are not the same thing.

This cracked me up. It's from this week's PFT power rankings.

You guys realize that they're trying to find a way to start McCown on Sunday, right?

McCown will start if healthy

Pettine is out for himself only. He needs wins to keep his job. He is hindering the future of the team. At this point he should be fired.



He said it! He freaking said it! What circumstances need to change?!?!?