DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The book on BQ .. and i mean BOOK!!!!

The Book on BQ

Intro ....

We invested a lot in BQ and he is going to be a big part of our future so many folks are now starving for info about him .. and more importantly ACCURATE INFO about him .... most folks make judgments on him based on anywhere from 2 – 5 games they watched him in and/or stats (witch are FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!) ... well I can provide VERY ACCURATE INFO on him as i watched every game he played in over the last 4 years ... I watched him grow up and mature as a QB, i know his strengths and weaknesses and i know all about his supporting cast and what they did and didn't do well .. I have FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of him and his team and can help separate the FACTS from the MYTHS and the FICTION ... so if your interested in a good accurate, thorough (VERY LONG .. u may wanna take 4 or 5 sittings to read it if your really interested)) breakdown of BQ read on ... if not go to the BE thread there a lot of fun ..

Contents

Chapter 1 – Skill Set/Physical Tools

1A - Accuracy
1B – Arm Strength
1C – Mobility
1D – Size
1E – Brains/Football Smarts

SPECIAL REQUEST

Chapter 2 – Intangibles


2A – Work Ethic
2B – Leadership
2C - Teammate/Person
2D – Negative

Chapter 3 – FAQ's

3A – Minni/Miami, fall to 22
3B – Is BQ ready to start?
3C – Can BQ perform under pressure?

Chapter 4 – Myths

4A – Stat padding vs Patsies
4B – Can't win the big one
4C – LSU game Breakdown

Summary

Chapter 1 - SKILL SET/PHYSICAL TOOLS ....

1A. Accuracy - BQ is a very accurate QB .. he is very accurate on ALL HIS THROWS .. not just short and intermediate ones ... he can also throw the long ball VERY VERY ACCURATELY contrary to the myth out there saying he can't ... is he as accurate throwing the ball 50 yards as he is throwing it 20 yards??? NOPE .. but who is ..

I have seen him thread the needle to his TE down the middle 40 yards in between 3 defenders on more than one occasion .. In the MSU game this year he threw the ball 40 – 45 yards in the air to the corner of the end zone where only his WR could make the catch and stay in bounds ... it was as pretty a pass as you'd want to see ... I have seen him make throws like this on MANY MANY OCCASIONS ... he is a VERY ACCURATE QB and accuracy is either his #1 or #2 attribute ...

he also has PINPOINT ACCURACY in that when he throws a pass he leads his receivers so they don't have to break stride, adjust their routes or slow down to catch them .. this is HUGE IN YAC ... HUGE .. it was one of the things that helped separate Montana and Aikman from the pack .. in his game winning TD pass against UCLA this year it was perfectly demonstrated .. he hit the Shark in stride witch allowed the Shark to turn up field at full speed and weave his way to the end zone .. this is a part of accuracy that most overlook ... and it is HUGE ...

1B. Arm Strength – he isn't what you'd call a gunslinger ... he cant throw it like Elway, Favre, Vick or Russell .. but fear not as he can make all the throws ... he can throw the deep out to the opposite hash, he has plenty of ZIP to throw the ball to spots in the zone 30 yards down the field or to zing it in on slants between the corner and safety .. he can also stretch the field .. he can throw it 40 – 50 yards in the air without making it a rainbow .... like i said he doesn't have WOW arm strength .. but he has plenty of it to make all the throws and make them affectively ..

1C. Mobility – he isn't near as mobile as guys like McScabb, Vick, Young or Charlie ... but he is plenty MOBILE .. he moves EXTREMELY WELL in the pocket .. he has GREAT FEET (thats for u tabber) ;... he can move two or 3 steps one way or the other and avoid the rush ... he can also roll out very smoothly and THROW ACCURATE while on the move ... his mobility is a PLUS not a NEGATIVE .. hes a QB not a RB ... and he moves plenty well ... U guys will be pleasantly surprised at how well he moves ...

1D. Size – Hes plenty tall enough to see over the lines and create throwing lanes and is strong as on ox ... over the last two years ND was like 19 for 20 on 3rd or 4th and a yard or less and all of them were sneaks by BQ ... he was $$$$ on those ... no worries or concerns here ... he has very few balls batted down as he has good throwing mechanics ... size is a plus ...

1E. Brains/Football Smarts – not sure if this is a physical skill or not .. but it is the #1 attribute for a QB to have in my book as u can't be good without being capable of making good decisions ...

BQ is a VERY VERY INTELLIGENT QB .... he has a very high football acumen and is a very cerebral QB ...

he is a quick and decisive decision maker and he makes tremendous reads ... his jr. year i can remember going WOW, WTF was that about once a game ... this past year it happened at most a handful of times ...

he also knows when to take his shots ... he knows when its time to try and squeeze one in and when its time to just chuck it away and live to fight another day ... and when he tries to squeeze one in .. he almost always puts it in a spot where only the receiver can catch it ...

he PROTECTS the ball ... he realizes the value of having the ball and the other team cant score if we have it ... tabber told me someone posted on the other board that BQ threw zero pics in the red zone the last two years and he wanted to verify it with me .. well i can't remember if he did or he didn't ... i can't remember him throwing any ... i do remember two passes his jr. year that should have been picked off but were dropped .. but if this is true .. thats AMAZING ...

I can say without a doubt when we got in the red zone WE SCORED 7 ... we did not squander red zone scoring opportunities very often in either his jr. or sr. season ....

u guys are going to LOVE the decisions this kid makes ...

a good example of how smart he is comes from when we hired Charlie .. we hired Charlie in Dec and he still had almost 2 months left in his NFL season and run to the SB .. Charlie was worried about how much of his O he was going to be able to install cause of the QB and how much he could throw at them .. well the first day he met with BQ he was STUNNED at how much he knew of the patriots system and his amazement continued on from there .. BQ obviously got the play book from Charlie and had almost all the lingo down including the check offs and reads .. he also had his parents tape all the Patriots games and then studied the crap out of them so he had an even more in depth knowledge of what was going on ... by the time fall camp was over Charlie had installed almost 90% of his O when he thought he wouldn't get more than 50 or 60% of it in his first year ... this also goes to work ethic guys ...

SPECIAL REQUEST – I would like this thread to stay somewhat on point so i am RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING that soup and menZa both stay off this thread .. PLEASE GUYS there have been a bunch of BQ threads you have made your thoughts well known on .. and u guys tend to polarize and dominate the threads and i would like for u to not do that here ...

Thanks for your cooperation ... i know its an odd request but i swear on a stack of bibles i would honor it if someone asked me to stay away ... i hope u guys have the dignity and class to honor my request ... if they don't have the dignity and class to honor my request (and i highly doubt they do) .. i am PLEADING WITH THE REST OF U NOT TO RESPOND TO THEM ... they cant ruin a thread with no one to present their drivel to ...

and please spare me the BS of “how can u ask them to do that its a message board they can participate wherever they want” .. i know that guys .... but along those same lines i can ASK for someone to honor my wishes on a thread i start .. weather u agree with it and whether they honor it or not .... please keep this about BQ and not my request ...

THANK YOU ...

Chapter 2 - Intangibles

2A. Work Ethic – no one will EVER out work or OUT PREPARE him ... and this is in ALL ASPECTS of the game ... film study, learning and UNDERSTANDING everyones responsibilities in the play book, throwing and getting to know his receivers ... we'll learn an awful lot about Brey and how good he really wants to be by how much time he spends with BQ ... cause BQ will be doing extra throwing to someone ...

the best way to describe this kids work ethic is simple ... BQ eats, drinks and sleeps football .. he LOVES and LIVES the game ...

a good example of this is when he went on vacation last summer .. he was in the Caribbean for a week .. he got a one week gym membership .. how's that for dedication???

– he is as good a leader as there is ... Charlie and his teammates all say he has “it” ... and he leads the right way ... he leads by example and not by running his mouth .. he is always working and trying to improve ... and he will take charge ... once he does get the starting job ..there will be no doubt who is in charge of the huddle and who the team leader is .. NONE ...

a good example of his leadership is when they came out against UCLA with 1:02 left and 80 yards to go down by 4 they did a spot with Darius Walker (ND's RB) and he said .. we all have faith in BQ .. he is the quintessential leader and we know he will take us where we need to go ... he has NEVER let us down .... 3 plays and 45 seconds later we were in the lead ...

we have a leader u guys will LOVE ... hes a GREAT KID and a GREAT LEADER ... him and Joe will make all of us PROUD to be Dawgs again ...

2C. Teammate/Person – BQ is a great kid ... hes got his head on straight ... hes just a quality individual ... hes dating the same girl he has since sophomore year in HS .... hes soft spoken and articulate ... very down to earth ... last year ND's two incoming freshman QB's didn't know what to expect ... they both said they were STUNNED when BQ came to their dorms to introduce himself and make them feel at home and let them know if they ever needed anything or wanted to know anything to just ask ... they said he was great whenever they needed help understanding something .. he always talked with them and answered all their questions ..

2D. Negative – his one glaring negative is he will go through a series or two once every 3rd game or so where he will release the ball to soon and it will sail on him ... and he does it the entire series or two ... he'll sail 2 passes we'll get a 1st down and then he will sail two more ... the length of the series doesn't really matter although there usually short when hes not completing any passes .. *L* ... then just as quick as it came its solved ...

thats really the only negative i can think of ... and this should be easily cured but for some reason it hasn't been .. so maybe its not as easily cured as it would appear to be ..

Chapter 3 - FAQ's

3A. Why did Minni and Miami pass on BQ and why did he fall to 22? (this ones for u Pdawg and Vers) ...

Minni - passed on him because they drafted Jackson a QB in rnd 2 last year and didnt want to throw that investment out the window ... plus they got one of the top 3 or 4 players on everyones board in AP ...

Miami – NO CLUE what so ever how they could pass on him .. no one knows .. cause it makes no sense .... the only thing anyone can say for sure is they think they'll be better off with Ginn/Beck ... they may have had Beck rated higher than BQ ... there are some reports that a few teams did ...

I cant explain this one .. there is truly no GOOD EXPLANATION for it ... i can tell u that i am not the least bit worried that this is some kind of red flag to BQ not being a VERY VERY GOOD – GREAT QB in this league for a long long time .. EVERY YEAR in the draft there is things that happen that just can't be explained ... i mean forget the fish passed on BQ how the hell does Ted Ginn go at #9 .. STUPID .. if BQ was gone it still would have been a DUMB ASS pick ... if they took Okoye or Leon Hall i wouldn't be saying they made a DUMB ASS pick .. i still would believe they made a MAJOR MAJOR MISTAKE but the pick would have made sense ... Ginn there was MORONIC ..

now his continued slide to 22 .... after Miami u onlyhad two teams who u could say didn't have QB's that they didn't just recently draft or have real good QB's .... we'll go through them ...

Houston – Schwabb
Frisco – A. Smith
Jills - Losman
Lambs - Bulger
JETS JETS JETS – i thought they may take him .. one of the two legite teams that i thought could take him .. glad i wasn't around when they traded up cause i would have had a stroke ... *L* .. cant explain that one .... although Pennington ain't bad and they needed corners ....
Stiler - Ben
Packers – Favre/Rogers
Donks – Cutler
Bungles - Palmer
Titans - Young
Giants – Eli
Jags – the team i thought for sure would take him ... i'll save my thoughts on why they passed for if someone asks ....

so the reason he slid from 10 – 22 is obvious as hell ... no one needed a QB ... THANK GOD ..

so there u have it ... at least the best that i can do .. Minni i can explain .. sorry P but i have no good explanation as to how Miami passed other than to say they made a bonehead move by passing on him ..

3B. Is BQ ready to start?? NO ... no rookie QB is ready or prepared to start ... its just not possible ... the only rookie to truly succeed was Dan Marino .. and he had all day to throw with the line he had .. a lot of people say Payton had a great rookie year .. well thats because they look at his 25 TD's .. witch is PHENOMONAL ... they forget about his 28 pics ... thats not a GOOD YEAR by any stretch of the imagination .. now rookie QB's have started on successful teams ... but those were VERY GOOD FOOTBALL TEAMS where the QB wasn't asked to do much other than be a caretaker .. look at our own Bernie Kosar .. I believe his rookie year we backed into the playoffs at 8 – 8 ... well he was pretty much a hand off machine that year .. L ... Ben is another example .. but again he wasn't asked to do much ..

now with all that said ... BQ is better prepared to start from day 1 than any of his predecessors (and i want to make this CRYSTAL CLEAR .... i am not advocating we start BQ from day 1 .. if he starts on day 1 .. FINE .. if not .. NO PROBLEM AT ALL ... i will also be fine if he sits the ENTIRE YEAR .. all i am going to do here is give u the FACTS as to why he is BETTER PREPARED to start than any before him .. ) ... for a bunch of reasons ... the main reason that rookie starters struggle is they are OVERWHELMED by everything they are learning and things that they have NEVER SEEN BEFORE .. a short list of those things ..

... a new playbook that is bigger and more detailed than anything they ever experienced in college ..
.... nfl O's are timing based and college O's aren't ..
.... nfl O's rely much more on “windows” than college O's
.... the speed of the game
.... reading D's and making GOOD/QUICK decisions based on those reads ..

all this simply put OVERWHELMS a rookie QB ... well BQ all ready has experience with and done the following ...

... ND ran the patriots offense .. so he knows all about an NFL play book and its length and detail ....
... he has ran a timing O for 2 years ..
... he has ran and has a much better understanding of “windows” than almost any college QB before him ..
... he has much more experience at reding D's and making QUICK DECISIONS on where to go with the ball than almost any college QB before him ..

because of his experience with Wies and the O he installed BQ is BETTER PREPARED than any QB before him .. some had more knowledge in one or maybe two aspects than BQ does .. but none are EVEN CLOSE in the total package ..

and make no mistake about it guys .. if he does start .. he will STRUGGLE .. just because hes bette prepared doesn't mean hes ready ... all it means is he wont be NEARLY AS OVERWHELMED AS MOST .. his biggest problem (as it is with all other rookie QB's) will be the speed of the game .. NOTHIING CAN PREPARE U FOR THAT OTHER THAN BEING IN THE GAME .. most QB's need to sit because they have to THINK about the other stuff and that makes the speed of the game even faster (when u react instead of think it slows everything down .. anyone thats played sports knows this) .. well BQ will be able to REACT to a lot more than most ... and thats why hes much better prepared ...

that is why BQ is MORE PREPARED to start than any before him ... weather u agree or not .. *L*

3C. Can BQ perform under pressure??? ABSOLUTELY, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT and he has a body of work to show it .. i'll do it chronologically starting with his jr. year ...

MSU ... ND was down 38 – 17 with 9 mins left in the 3rd quarter .. BQ throws 3 TD passes and we tied it up at 38 all and eventually lost in OT ...

USC .... down 4 with 5 mins left we start on our own 20 ... we take the lead on a BQ TD run with 2 mins left ... u all know the rest ...

Stanford ..... down 1 with 1:46 left ... (and this game was for 12 million dollars) .... start on own 20 ... score TD with 55 secs left with BQ throwing for 68 of the 80 yards ... convert 2 point conversion ..

SENIOR YEAR MSU game .... down 37 – 21 entering the 4th quarter ... BQ throws 2 TD passes and we win ....

UCLA – down by 4 with 1:02 left we take over on our own 20 .... 3 plays (all completed passes) and 45 seconds later were in the end zone with the W as the D holds for once ...

the boy can come from behind ... rest assured on that one ....

4B. The BQ cant win the big game myth ...

Pundit's experts and many board members have stated that BQ cant win the big game .. well thats just not true as he did win more than one big game and if it wasn't for BQ we would have not played in any of the other big games we got our asses kicked in ... lets take a look starting with his jr. year ...

at Pitt in the 1st game of the year ... Pitt was a top 20 team and ND was no where to be found ... ND WON BIG ... granted Pitt went to STINK .. but at the time it was a BIG GAME ...

at Michigan in the 2nd game of the year ... U of M was 2nd or 3rd in the country and we were in the big house ... we won .... again U of M went on to a pretty pitiful season ...

vs USC ... BQ played a good game and put us in a position to win .. thats all u can ask from your QB ..

vs Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl ... we got our asses kicked ... i could be hypocritical here and point out that BQ had very good stats against OSU but i won't .. we got our asses kicked ...

1 thing that needs to be pointed out here and its HUGE if u want to be honest in your assessments .. ND was involved in 4 big games that year .... in 1 of them we had superior talent (Pit) and we blew them out ... in 1 of them we had about equal talent and we won a squeaker .. in 1 of them we matched up well with them when we had the ball (USC had a PRETTY BAD D) and they had much better talent when they had the ball .... then u guys had far superior talent and kicked our asses .. the theme ...

TALENT TALENT TALENT ,,,,,

SR Year big games .....

at Georgia Tech in the 1st game of the year ... we won ... they went on to win their half of the ACC (not such a big deal) .. they were a decent team ...

vs Penn State in the 2nd game of the year .. we demolished them and BQ had a GREAT DAY ... they were a decent football team ...

both these teams ended up in decent bowl games and in the top 25 ... hardly patsies .. definitely big games ...

vs Michigan in 3rd game of the year ... heres where the myth really starts to get blown out of proportion .. they were a MUCH MUCH BETTER football team than we were .. they had WAY MORE TALENT .. and BQ gets lambasted for this one and it wasn't his fault .. he threw 3 picks .... well lets clear sumptin up here .....

his first pick was a PERFECT PASS that hit his TE right in his hands in stride on about a 7 yard route out out in the flat ... the ball bounced off his hands and went for a TD ...

on his 2nd pick he got hit in his right arm as he released it sending the ball straight up in the air .... hardly his fault ....

his 3rd pick falls squarely on him ... it was a 3rd and 13 and we were down by 3 scores ... he threw a pass where he thought only his WR would have a chance for the catch ... the DB made a great play and picked it off .. it was his fault no doubt ...

and the fact is he got his ass kicked all day long .... he was under pressure the entire game ..

they had MUCH MORE TALENT THAT WE DID ...

at USC ... and the myth gathers more steam ... for starters they had MUCH MUCH MORE TALENT THAN WE DID .. now lets take a look at the game ...

on our first 3 drives we had 5 dropped passes ... thats right 5 PERFECT PASSES that were just dropped ... in a mere 3 possessions ... the game was still in the 1st quarter .... the score after USC's first three drives .... 21 – 3 ... how the hell anyone can blame BQ is beyond me .. he was actually about the only one on our team that bothered to show up ...

ND had 10 dropped passes in this game ... thats right 10 drops in one game .. DROPPED PASSES KILLED us in this game (a theme that will be repeated against LSU .. ) ..

yet BQ can't win the big one and its his fault ...

4C. LSU in the Sugar Bowl ... this ones my favorite .. and i'll go into GREAT DETAIL as i did once before the draft and maybe you'll learn something ... u know if u actually look BEYOND THE STATS and WATCH THE GAMES U CAN LEARN a lot .... LOL ... so here we go into the LSU game ..

LSU scores on their first two possessions and its 14 – 0 ... BQ hasn't played well up till this point .. he hasn't played bad .. but he hasn't played good either ...

we march down and make it 14 – 7 ... the TD pass was REMARKABLE .. he threw it into double coverage and put it in the one and only place where his WR could catch it ... and Grimes made a heck of a catch .. it was a GREAT PLAY on both ends ..

the D casues a turnover and we take over at LSU's 21 ... now BQ makes the BEST PLAY of the night by either QB ... its 3rd and 5 from the 16 .... they blitz a Lber from the left side and hes coming in untouched ... BQ IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZES it and while taking his 2nd or 3rd step back floats it up REAL REAL HIGH to the end zone where the Shark is running a fade route .... its a PERFECT PASS as it hits the shark right in the helmet ... he had no chance to pick it up as BQ had to throw it way to quick and so high when Shark turned around he had no clue where it was ... and thats one of the buety parts of the pass .. when shark turned around he had plenty of time to pick it up and react if he could have located it ...

it was a GREAT READ by BQ and a GREAT PASS all done within about 1 – 2 seconds of the snap ...

and we end up with ZERO POINTS as our FG kicker misses the chippie ...

we then tie the game up at 14 with 2:25 left in the half .... and NOW THE FUN BEGINS ... our receivers have played very well up to this point ..

our sieve of a D gives up a TD before the half to make it 21 – 14 before the half ...

LSU takes the 2nd half kickoff and take 6 minutes to score a FG ... so now its 24 – 14 ....

on our 1st possession of the 2nd half on 3rd and 3 or 4 BQ hits the Shark right in the hands in between the #'s on a slant pattern about 8 yards down the field ... CLUNK ..... right through his hands, off his chest and to the turf .... instead of 1st and 10 and the drive still alive ... we punt ... NOTHING MORE BQ COULD HAVE DONE ...

LSU marches down and gets another FG .. 27 – 14 ....

on our first play BQ hits McNight about 20 yards down the field on a sideline pass ... he hit him right in the hands and in stride ..... CLANK ... it was perfectly thrown over the CB and in front of the safety .. a BIG PLAY negated ...... then he hits the Shark for 6 .. we run on 3rd and 4 and punt ...

LSU goes down and scores a TD ... its now 34 – 17 .... this is 4 straight possessions the Tigers have scored on ....
BQ hits a couple passes to get us into LSU territory .... he then hits McNight right in the hands on a slant pattern ..... this one goes off his hands and off his chest and then straight up in the air and into the arms of a waiting LSU defender ... he couldn't just drop it ... he has to send it up into the air for a pick ... BQ put the pass right where he needed to ;.... u couldn't walk it out there and have it in a better spot and lo and behold its LSU's ball .... again through NO FAULT OF BQ ...

we actually stop LSU this time .. well we intercepted him deep in our own territory ....

on this possession BQ throws 2 passes ... it was only a 3 play possession ... and they were both .... u guessed it ... DROPPED ... in all fairness one of the passes was a little low but it should have been caught .. but unlike all the other ones it wasn't a PERFECT pass ...

LSU then scores another TD to make it 41 – 14 .... and the game is all but over now ....

so from a 14 – 14 game with 2 mins left in the half ... BQ does NOTHING BUT MAKE GOOD PLAYS and his team is down 41 – 14 before u know it ... yet its BQ'S FAULT ..... *LOL* ... well OK then ...

at the end of the day in 4 of the BIG GAMES BQ couldn't win .. he had NO CHANCE .. when we played U guys in 05 and Michigan, USC and LSU in 06 we were just WAY OVERMATCHED .. and us being over matched by u guys was something i pointed out MANY MANY TIMES before we played U .. it was the same in the 3 this year ... then u add in the fact he got no help from his recievers in all 3 games this year and he was TOAST .... actually the WR's played well in the Michigan game .. the one drop/deflection by Carlson on our first series was possibly our only drop and if it wasn't there was 1 or 2 others at most ...

and the FACT IS .... if it wasn't for BQ we would not have been in a BCS bowl game either year and we would have no BIG GAMES in either of those years cause we would not have had the record to make them big games ....

Summary – Well my fellow dawgs there u have it ... all u need to know about BQ and more ... i hope those that wanted to know more about him now do .. i tried to give examples of everything I said about him as I am sure i saw more of him than most .... and hes a guy u need to watch week in and week out to truly appreciate all the things he does ..

We got ourselves a QB that is Smart, Poised, Accurate a tremendous leader and a great kid with a strong enough arm to get it done ... he has an epic work ethic and lives and loves the game like guys like Manning, Brady and Ray Ray .. what more could U ask for in a QB???

I know a lot of U are skeptical and thats understandable ... your just not familiar enough with him ... u will be soon and u will be THRILLED hes ours .. once u become MORE INFORMED for yourselves with him U will see what i see and will know what i say is not far from the truth ... a lot of u will say this is pure homerism on my part ... and thats just not true .. am i excited BQ is a Brown?? ABSOLUTELY ..... but not because hes a former domer but because he will be a VERY VERY GOOD NFL QB (thats his downside) and help the team we all love WIN FOOTBALL GAMES ...

Thanks Opie ..... the fact u gave us a class kid to be the face of the franchise takes a back seat to what he will do on the football field, at least in my book ...

GOOD LUCK BQ .... u know where we wanna go .... now take us there ....

WOOF WOOF WOOF!!!!!!!!!!!

these posts are meaningless.. no offense... i can tell u put a lot of work in this post so... i respect that...

but ...

How about we just wait and see how he does in OTA's, camp, summer practices, preseason, etc... and then assess..

All work and no play makes Diam a dull boy.

J/K I'll read it when I find the time. Looks like good stuff but like Turk said, we won't know anything until we see it in a Browns uniform over the next several months.

Thank you for the post. I don't know how good Quinn is going to be. I'm tired of the constant post saying "Quinn is great, he's a top five pick." nonsense. It's good to read an in depth assessment of him from someone who has seen him play.

That negative you post, could be easily remedied I think with good coaching from our staff.

Do we have that here? I'm iffy about that.

I think Brady's biggest obstacle, could be overcoming the lack of coaching here. I dont know much about Rip Scherer, but I dont have much confidence.

Everything I'm reading about Quinn has been amazing. Everytime I hear Brady will be a bust, theres never any merit to their reasoning, if there is any reasoning at all. Its always, he'll be a bust...why?...i dunno, i just think so. Always weak arguments.

I'm very very pleased with Quinn. And this read, which is very good diam, thanks for it, just makes me more excited.

That is some really good info and it is a great post....not perfectly unbiased but still a good post..

Not sure what to make of your BQ love...on one hand, you're a pretty knowledgeable guy, so your glee makes me relieved...on the other hand, despite my football knowledge not being what your's is...I can tell a crush when I see one.

Tell you what, if you're feeling up to it...what are the five things that scare you about Brady Quinn? Five negatives that surround the kid?

Hmmmmm ... good question .... never looked at it that way ... will have to think about it some and get back to U ... and i'm going to try and think of things pertinent to him .. injury and supporting cast always worry me .. although with what Opie is doing with this team .. I think the supporting cast will be very good and complete in a few years ..

i'll get back to U ...

Pdawg - your one of the main reasons I took the time to do it .. cause like U i get sick of the crap posts about anything that just make bold atatements with nuttin to back them up other than "cause i said so" .. and i know theres alot of Dawgs that are craving info on BQ ...

The Miami picking Ginn at 9 pick.

I think I can shed light on that. Miami was going the way of Cleveland with the Trent Dilfer pickup. They're still convinced Trent Green will wear a Phins jersey in the fall, also, they feel Culpepper has a decent shot at returning. Why would you take a QB with the #9 pick when you plan on having 2 former Pro Bowlers on your roster with one of them having a career QB rating over 85 (Green).

If they drafted Quinn at 9, theyd be qorking with 3 QBs that are going to be pressured to start if theyre healthy. Make that the case and BQ has all the pressure in the world to be the starter and be better than Daunte and Trent Green. Thats a tall order, and for a rookie. Not to mention if they dont start Brady, he'll be making a ton of money to ride the pine. Taking Brady Quinn would've tied WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too much money in the QB situation.

By drafting John Beck, they get a guy who they felt was still a very good QB, but for a lot less money, and under a lot less pressure to start right away. This way they can let him develop, and let Daunte and Trent do their work.

The drafting of Ted Ginn. Providing he can get healthy really isnt as bad of a pick as it seems. Ginn ran a 4.38 40 on a sprained foot, thats been in a boot for a while now. Thats world class speed, add health, hes runnin in the 4.2s. Thats faaaaaaaaast.

The Fins just lost Wes Welker to the Pats, and Marty Booker has been mediocre at best in Miami. Chris Chambers production has been suffering mightily because there's no number 2 to take away attention.

They drafted Derek Hagan last year, and he should be able to step into Booker's spot, and Ted Ginn can come in pressure free and be the slot guy. Welker was their top pass catcher (67) last year as their slot guy, that can be Ted Ginn.

ALSO, Miami hasnt returned a punt for a TD since 2001. And only a couple kicks. So, by drafting Ginn, not only do they get a world class speed guy, they get a WR to replace Wes Welker (and is better), and they get a returner who is dynamite.

With the #9 pick, they needed a guy who i dangerous with the ball in his hands. Ted Ginn is all that plus can get open. He was a pick that will yield them value and no pressure.

Quinn would have been pressured to get on the field and produce better than 2 pro bowlers. Ginn/Beck, can come in an produce in their own time, in their own way.

Miami made good picks there. you'll see, not to hijack your thread, just wanted to shed light on that situation, since it was brought up

GREAT JOB DIAM, now that we have all that clear, I'm still stumped by the pic with his two buddies..

AWESOME AWESOME breakdown and I give you all the props in the world given the time and effort that went into it. You obviously know what you're talking about and I completely agree.

As far as the Sugar Bowl game, I can agree that it's not fair to compare either QB in that situation due to the talent differential being HUGE. ESPN shows a clip regularly where 3 LSU receivers ran vertical routes and just blew by the ND secondary like they were asleep...and ND's secondary was running full speed trying to keep up.

Ya think that would make Russell look good? I sure do. All he had to do was chuck it down field.

Many of the stuff you mention has me excited. I do think he can start week one, though. He definitely won't set the world on fire but I do think he'll be more successful than that other guy. I'll save the #9 bashing for another thread since this thread isn't deserving of anyone tarnishing it but to sum it up he reminded me way too much of a poor man's Michael Vick (slower, weaker arm, but played the same game of run around and chuck it to the tight end).

The biggest things will be adjusting to the speed of the game and adjusting to the narrower throwing windows of the NFL game. The fact that ND has played in so many games where they were overmatched talent-wise may be beneficial to him, IMO. Since the Browns, as bad as we have been, aren't as overmatched talent-wise as we once were, and even then, the disparity in the NFL isn't nearly as great as the disparity in college ball.

Here's a good question, if he started week one you'd expect him to struggle. Hell, most logical people think that way (I just think he'd struggle the least out of our QB's...if that makes any sense). How much do you expect him to struggle? Carson Palmer struggling? (a.k.a. will make some mistakes but overall shows signs of hope) Or Alex Smith struggling (a.k.a. he looked so dreadful his rookie year, the fact that he looked somewhat decent last year was a miracle)? I'm guessing you'd lean closer to Palmer. Obviously, we don't have the offense they do yet. But, no one expected them to have that offense either. Maybe, just maybe, the chips will fall into place to where we can bring Brady along and not hurt his development. I know it's unfair to judge due to other players having different situations, but I'm trying to compare successes and failures of recent memory for the sake of comparing. And no, I'm not looking at stats like the boneheaded "Frye is on pace with Aikman" stat. I'm looking more at situations like team around them, and NFL readyness. (Alex Smith was less prepared than Tim freaking Couch for the NFL due to the Utah offense, for example).

Which brings me back to this point: No doubt in my mind Jamal Lewis and the offensive line will dictate how he looks. If Lewis has anything left I expect us to run him as much as we can. He'll have to be like Rudy Johnson was in Palmer's first year starting.

Great thread, major props.

Well, after the way you tried to tune me up on another thread, I really hate to give you kudos,, but I can't resist Good job Diam,,

What's it all mean? Well, I believe it means that we have a QB that has a better than even chance to be very very successful in the NFL. Brought along right, given the right support, protection and receivers that catch, runners that run etc.. he has the potential to be one of the greats..

All the tools, as Diam as shown, are there... the skills, attitude, work ethic and physical tools are there.. he's smart and he's a good kid...

SO, let's lift a glass of whatever you are having to the success of Brady Quinn and the Cleveland Browns!

I haven't really posted about Brady because I didn't feel I saw enough of him until after the past weekend when STO played ND's games all weekend. Couple things struck me about him...

Positives
1. Very.... very intelligent with the ball.
2. More mobile than I thought...
3. Great pocket awareness
4. Leader with a short term memory

Negatives (only one)
1. CONSISTANT Accuracy... there was just too many times that he missed someone wide open... On one play he hits a guy right down the sideline in stride... the next he throws it 40 feet over his head. Unlike you I don't think this is going to be an easy fix for him... it has more to do with his mechanics and physical ability (hand size). The ball just seems to get away from him.

Thanks for the review. I'm one of the many on this board that has only seen BQ 3-4 times at most so I've stayed pretty quiet in the debates about him.

One of the few questions I had with him was arm strength, particularly throwing the deep out (a throw, IMO, an NFL QB MUST be able to make, especially in crunch time) and you addressed that.

Your reputation of NOT being a homer (as shown the past several years) also gives you credence, so thanks again... I'm looking forward to watching BQ and I hope your words are proven to be accurate over the course of the next few years.

Quote:

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Why would you take a QB with the #9 pick when you plan on having 2 former Pro Bowlers on your roster with one of them having a career QB rating over 85 (Green).

If they drafted Quinn at 9, theyd be qorking with 3 QBs that are going to be pressured to start if theyre healthy. Make that the case and BQ has all the pressure in the world to be the starter and be better than Daunte and Trent Green.

---

On one hand I see why you think they didn't take him (no need). On the other hand, with 2 Pro Bowlers on the roster, I think Quinn would be able to learn on the bench w/out the pressure of knowing that a lesser QB was in front of you. In addition, neither Culpepper nor Green are spring chickens. I think it would actually have been the perfect situation to draft a QB.

Now to Diam's post. I like the breakdown of Quinn. The biggest thing that stands out to me is the reaffirmation that he's only one guy. I feel he is going to be a very good/possibly great QB in this league, but he is a guy who (like 99% of the players out there) needs support. To say ND lost this or that game because of Quinn makes no more sense to me than saying they won this or that game solely because of him. If people realize that and nothing else from Diam's post, it's worth it.

Thats true, but the money that would be tied up in Quinn, would force him into the lineup a la Phillip Rivers.

And i think thats why they went with Beck, because he wont command as much money

Dude...That was sweet...Thanks...

U know I asked u numerous times pre-draft about this kid...I just wasn't sure...For lack of actually seeing him on the field...

The best thing about getting Quinn isn't even Quinn himself...lmao...

It's STARTING FROM DAY ONE WITH BONAFIDE BLINDSIDE PROTECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 bonafide potential Pro Bowlers...Same Draft...Same Year...Same Round...I'm still creamin'...

Noone should expect the kid to light it up this year...But I can tell ya' this...We should have somewhat of a running game...Justifiable Play-Action...And this will be HUGE for Quinn...He'll make mistakes no doubt...The TIMING of those mistakes and the resulting COST on the scoreboard will dictate whether they turn into LOSSES or not...

I'm lookin' seriously forward to seeing this kid work with the weapons he's already got waiting for em'...

QUINN IS SET UP FOR SUCCESS!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the breakdown Diam!

I was wondering when you were going to jump down off your soapbox and give us some REAL breakdown on the kid.


What I DO know of the kid "first hand" had me questioning him a little. And in all honesty,as I told you before,I didn't have enough "first hand" information on him to give a "logical,fair evaluation" of him to begin with.

I knew he came from an NFL scheme under Weiss and that Weiss was REAL: high on the kid. I knew it was a complicated system that would make him far more "NFL ready" than most and give him the edge on timing routes and using "windows of oppertunity" rather than just "wait for a play to open up".

But thanks for filling in the gaps. Good info there. Far more than you can get off a stat sheet!

That's very possible, but I gotta say thats tough to believe, merely because these guys (GMs) are getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with EVERY scenario possible.

However, with some of the decisions some of these GMs have made, its not really that hard to believe.

I think to be perfectly honest, its probably a bit of both. Maybe they had the backup plan that you mention they didnt have, but just felt that Ginn/Beck would be better than Quinn/?? i dunno.

But i dont think it was as foolish as people make it out to be

Heck of a alot of work.
First off,I'm lukewarm on Brady.Wasn't thrilled about the trade up,but I liked the fact the Savage has that much confidence in his own convictions to put his ass on the line.
Here's the part that concerns me.What you have descibed in your well written essay is "A Franchise QB".One of the tenets of drafting is,if thier is a franchise qb available,and you don't have one,you draft him.There were several teams without,(Miami,Houston,Rams,Jets,Jags)that passed on BQ.Logically one has to assume that those GM's don't view BQ in quite the same way as you do.That fact doesn't make them right and you wrong,it just makes me question the move.
Although I'm not a dissenting voice,I'll leave your thread.As it seems you are only looking for others to join in this BQ lovefest.just kidding,I think.

General Reply

One thing about Quinn that really stood out for me was an uncanny maturity and that same maturity helped him fall on draft day. He isnt a big risk taker and guys like Kiper and Mayok really pimp the qbs that can thread the needle. the problem is Quinn avoided situations where he had to consistently thread the needle. He went with the safe outlet and generally put the ball where it was his guy that caught it or no one.

Can he thread the needle on a consistent basis was the question that most of the experts kept asking and that led to questions on accuracy. They want to see the Bret Farve throw across the middle into double coverage. Taking the safe route doesnt get people excited which reminds me a lot of another ND qb.

I think to many forget that what makes an NFL qb great isnt just the throws that he makes but the one that never gets thrown unless u are a Farve and then u can get away with 30 picks a year lol

Thanks for all of the work put into this post. I wish I coulda seen more of Quinn myself to verify some of these things. I have seen the videos posted of Quinn doing poorly in big games, and gotta agree with you that Quinn seemed to have nothing around him when he faced major competition.

anyone know if STO will replay the Quinn marathon?

I think its official Diam. You are the biggest BQ fan in all footballdom.

Thanks Diam

since we drafted him I have actually been waiting for you to post something like this... good break down.

Good post Diam, you did a hellava great job explaining your perspective on the things you see promising re BQ's chances of becoming the next great QB for the Browns.

Just an insight on some of the negative thinking re BQ.......you have to remember that a lot of people not having the background knowledge you have, remember only his last performance vs LSU and that usually stays in people's minds the most.

I really hope this kid pans out but, I still like most here, being pragmatic, want to see the proof on the field. The only realistic question is the time period. I'm not even going to predict it and, only hope the learning curve is a short one for Brady but, no matter when he's put it all together.......it will be, when it will be.

Myself, I'm still pulling for Charlie and hoping with some improved protection he will have a fair chance to show what he's about. Good luck to both guys.

Again Diam, you outdid yourself and must be commended on your analysis and work. Thanks.

Nice job Diam

I hate to say this ... but i cant even think of 1 much less 5 things that scare me about BQ ... other than the usual stuff ...

can he adjust to the speed of the game ... it doesnt really scare me but until he's actually done it u cant be 100% sure ...

thats really about it ... sorry but i tried ...

U brought up a good point about the $$$ ... i never thought of that ... but IMO Peppers gone no matter what .... unless by some miracle they dont end up with Green .... and with Green on the team ... BQ's the perfect pick ... they picked up Beck so they picked their QB for the future ... that actually makes it harder for me to pallate they passed on BQ for $$$ or pressure reasons ...

and i don[t want this to turn into a debate on Ginn ... but i couldn't agree less with u on that pick .... well i agree he will be a GREAT RETURN man ... but as a WR ... NO THANKS .... hes fast .. no doubt .. he has questionable hands at best and runs POOR POOR ROUTES ... imo HE WILL BE A deep threat his entire career and thats it ...

and dont underestimate Welker .. hes got great hands and runs grear routes and hes tough as nails ...

Ammo .. thats a loaded question for a couple reasons ... but if u want an answer its gonna be alot closer to Palmer ... Smith was in ablsolutely HORRIBLE SITUATION his rookie year ... he was in a gimmick O in college and had no idea about an NFL O or how to run one ...

a good friend of mine who knows the game is a niner fan ... i told him Smith would be a very good QB but his rookie year was going to be ugly ... he had serious doubts about him after his rookie year ... i told him dont worry .... hes alot happier with him after last year ... this year coming up will be a tell tale year for Mr. Smith ..

BQ is alot closer to Palmer in so many ways ... but if he starts this year he will struggle alot more than Palmer did his first year starting ...

Bro let me ask you a question, becuase you've seen him more than I have. One of the few negatives I had about Brady was he seemed to get rattled when he was under pressure. I noticed it in the OSU game last year, and in the infamous LSU game this year, but to be honest I haven't seen every game Quinn played in like you...............so was this the exception or the rule??? Granted most any QB will get rattled when they are pressured, and this isn't a big deal, but I haven't asked you about it and wanted your opinion as it was one of the few negatives I saw in Brady.

One of the things for sure.

Quinn has been around college ball long enough to indicate that he will be a legitimate NFL QB.

If you take a look at all the first round flops they were 2 year starters with a lot of up-side (translated: a big arm). Quinn on the other hand has 49 games under his belt. This puts him in the Manning, Rivers class of QB's coming out.

There is no such thing prediting the sucess of a QB from college to the pro level. But Quinn has as much to suggest that he will be sucessful as anyone.

I would just love to have heard the conversations between Weis and Crennel/Savage regarding Quinn.

U know I almost made that his 2nd negative but its just NOT TRUE ... well anymore true than it is for any other real good QB ...

he learned to play under pressure his first two years as he was no more than a tackling dummy .... then his jr. year the OL did a pretty good job protecting him .. last year was pretty bad ... he was under pressure pretty much all the time in about 7 of our games ...

he plays fine under pressure bro .... he has a TON OF POISE and has GREAT POCKET PRESENCE ... did he make some bad decisions and passes under pressure?? sure he did .... did he make an inordinate amount?? NOT EVEN CLOSE .... he threw the ball away and made good decisions way way way more than bad ... in the LSU game he made two bad decisions/passes under pressure and everyone dwells on those two .. how many times was he pressured that game?? a dozen at least ...

sometimes i think u guys (not so much U) expect perfection ... hes STILL LEARNING .. hes only 22 years old .... he has a LONG WAYS TO GO AND ALOT TO LEARN ... he happens to be way ahead of the curve but hes not A FINISHED PRODUCT YET ...

seriously bud .. think about it and thinnk about other GREAT COLLEGE QB'S and what they were doing in his situation ... they were making mistakes to ... and its not like he made alot of them .. they just are ALL FOLKS TEND TO REMEMBER ...

same thing with this accuracy BS .. i mean that one "expert" from ESPN said he was innacuratte ... he said he watched film and BQ missed passes every game ... well u know how tough i am on my teams players .. and if BQ was doing this i'd certainly remember ... and i have NO CLUE what any of those are talking about .... all i could think was they to were expecting PERFECTION and for him to throw EVERY PASS ON THE MONEY ...

at the end of the day bro ... your going to think ... WOW ... THAT KID IS POISED when hes under pressure .... I swear u will ..... well unless your expecting perfection ...

your gonna LOVE THIS KID WILLIE ... hes the real deal ...

Diam, not to harp back at Ginn...While I dont personally think that hes going to be a great wideout. I agree with you, im only stating that I think Miami thinks that he will in fact pan out, and fits the needs they have at the time being.

On Welker, he does run great routes and he is in fact tough as nails, but living in a Phins home (my dad is huge on em, and I still follow em, cuz I did until Marino and Shula retired, then i smartened up , but i still have a spot in my heart for em) I've watched them play alot, and Welker is a guy that can get open and get the ball, but thats it. He goes down immediately because he doesnt get separation or push any defender back. Thats what I think the Fins see in Ginn for themselves, someone that can get separation and get YACs.

back to Quinn...

I havent much commented on it around the boards much, cuz I was so much about taking Thomas, I said no to quinn, and didnt want him, because I felt at #3 we needed OL or something more pressing because I like Frye alot, I think he can be a very good QB. HOWEVER, when I heard we traded up and took Quinn not at 3...i just thought, hmmm, thats a damn good idea. 2 top of the line guys in the 1st round this year, when we need 2 first round guys. Brilliant.

I still think Charlie can be very good. I kinda hope that Brady starts from day 1, and Charlie stays on board as a #2 forever. I want it to be an open competition, and I want Brady to win, because I think that it will make the Browns better. If Charlie wins the competition, he's going to be looking over his shoulder the whole time, or just knowing his days are numbered.

If he loses, he can know he's a #2 and can be happy in that role. I'd like Charlie to be our starter, but I think Quinn could be a better starter, and I'm much happier that it isnt as a #3 pick.

Diam, everything youve been saying makes me more excited, and makes me think that we have our man.

Everyone thats asked me about Quinn, Ive been saying, Look, he took marginal talent at ND and made them a powerhouse. The worst he can do in Cleveland, is take the same marginal talent that we've been throwing out there and NOT make them worse. and with our improving talent (BE, K2, JoeJ), not only can he most likely make them look better, they can make him look better too, and together thats dynamite.

The more i think about it the more i say, Charlie will be an amazing #2, and he will have none of the pressure that hes had since starting here, and if hes a Browns fan like its been said, he'll be ok with it, if he loses out.

Im glad Brady is here as the #22 pick, and I hope he wins out as starter, and i hope he does everything you say. your words instill/inspire confidence

Nice book. I didn't know, or forgot, that you were such a Domer fan -"we" is interchanged with Notre Dame throughout. I was a the UCLA Notre Dame game last fall, and that last minute of play, and how that crowd reacted during and after, was one of the most powerful things I have ever experienced - and this was my favorite team getting shredded. (The niracle against SC a few weeks later was THE most). That day I told my buddy I would love to see that kid in Orange and Brown, but on draft day when JT was there at 3, I resigned myself to thinking "oh well," maybe in trade a few years from now if he pans out. When Miami passed, the thought crossed my mind - "wouldn't it be cool if . . . nah, that'll never happen" and you can image how elated I was when my buddy called me a couple hours to give me the news (I was on the road after about the 12th pick).

It really stokes me to see you so fired up about this pick given you can be a tad critical of players at times. . . Thanks for the read, and the good vibes!

Nice read Diam.

I just wanted to chime in on a few things. First, I wanted Alex Smith pretty bad...and I knew he had/has what it takes to be a good QB in the NFL. mainly becuase the kid has it upstairs. And Brady has it upstairs. Which is one of the reasons I love the move to go get him.

I did want to touch upon the accuracy issue...and it ties in with another category you talked about. I remember watching alot of the stuff on NFL Network as did many others. And what I came away with it was that Brady has good mechanics but they have plenty of room to improve. And this was one of the reasons that Russell was rated higher on many boards. I held Brady higher than Russell for all other reasons. Those being brains/ intelligent(and Russell is not lacking in those areas)...leadership, work ethic, head start in an NFL system, defensive reads...etc. but the spot they had in comparing the QB's gave me some insight as to why Teams had Russell higher.

They were commenting on the accuracy issue. and they were spotlighting some of the plays where Brady's accuracy was so-so. The thing they were pointing out was his footwork. Now you claim he has great footwork and overall it is pretty darn good. But you could really see how his footwork was affecting his accuracy. In particular his left or front foot. On the throws where his accuracy suffered (and some of these spots were taken from his personal workout with no D pressure) his left foot was cocked in some and especially on the outs to the left side you could see the ball sailing a little behind. And then they would show it side by side with one of his good throws and the foot was pointed straight to where he is throwing and the ball is absolutely 100% on the money. So they were making the case that some of his accuracy issues dealt with foot placement. In showing Russell they saw excellent footwork and placement. now obviously they have the power to pick and choose what to show, but the point of Russell being better or worse is not the point...the point was that the times Brady had bad throws, much of it can be traced to his footwork.

In sticking with the feet. they were showing side by side spots of Quinn and Russell working out. and they were showing their footwork in there 3, 5, and 7 step drops. And this was one actually quite amazing and something you don't think alot about. But Russell, although a big kid, he isn't 10 feet taller than Brady or anything like that. But his footwoork in backing away from center was amazing. His second and consecutive steps were leaps and bounds better than Brady's. In the same amount of time, Russell would be at least five yards further back in the same amount of steps. Brady seemed to shorten his strides in his backpeddle. Something you wouldn't think about as much just watching his workout. But in watching the side by side spots.....it was glaringly apparent.

Lastly they were looking at throwing mechanics. And Brady seems to use his arm more and not as much his feet and body as Russell did. Some of that can explain Russells cannon. They also felt that Brady's release point was not quite as consistant as they would like. Often it was a little early resulting in higher thows. His shorter stride and foot placement also contributed to the power loss. But of course they are comparing to Russell, who coming out of college may throw harder than any player int he NFL.

Brady can be VERY accurate. His arm is PLENTY big enough to make all of the throws. And in no way am I saying Russell was rated so high because of footwoork and better throwing mechanincs. But they were definitely a part of the equation. Physically, Russell is the greatest prospect at QB ...possibly ever. But I still had Quinn Higher. The only things wrong with Brady's game are things that are absolutely and easily correctable.

I think Diam did a great job of breaking him down. And frankly, I think Brady is the most NFL ready QB since Peyton. I think he has all the tools you would ever need in a QB, and he has the brains and attitude to implement them. To put it simply....I am very excited to have him on this team.