DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Playing Johnny its a start (Terry Pluto)

The fact is, no QB simply gets better from sitting on the bench after one and a half seasons. No, not even Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was ready and just biding his time because of Favre.

IF JFF is going to mature as a QB, he's going to need playing time and film to accomplish that. The entire "He's not ready" premise will always be true until he gets playing time.

Someone in this thread said something like, "To look like a veteran QB, you first have to be a veteran QB.'

I don't have much faith in the JFF experiment. I haven't from day 1. But I do know that if you want to see what a QB has, you have to give him the playing time to develop.

That's what happens when you blame others between the lines for your ineptitude. Manziel will never really change and I agree that the GM/coaches are responsible for it, if they thought they could change him. If he isn't the little king in his world, he will get a depression. Either way will get him out of the league in no time. Yes, that's my opinion only...

I'm quite sure that Tampa Bay, the Vikings and The Raiders would all disagree with Rodgers.

The fact is, no QB simply gets better from sitting on the bench after one and a half seasons. No, not even Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was ready and just biding his time because of Favre.

'The Browns can't count on Johnny Manziel as their franchise quarterback and need to draft one high: Mary Kay Cabot analysis'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

Jaworski: Johnny Manziel can't be successful ad-libbing an NFL offense

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...-an-nfl-offense

BEREA, Ohio -- Ron Jaworski broke down the video of Johnny Manziel ’s start against Cincinnati the morning after the Browns' 31-10 loss to the Bengals.

Jaworski’s take?

“You can’t run an ad-lib offense in the NFL,” the ESPN analyst said Wednesday.

By that he meant what has often been said about Manziel: He likes to ad-lib, run around and make something happen.

“He very rarely is going to drop back, plant his foot and throw,” Jaworski said.

This insight supports Mike Pettine’s halftime statement that Manziel had to take early throws that were open.

One breakdown from SBNation.com showed photos of plays where it seemed like Manziel missed many open receivers and followed his inclination to run. Manziel admitted “there were some things that I think that were easy that I missed.”

The Browns' first pass of the game fit that description -- and was noticeable live and on TV and on postgame review. To get Manziel going, the Browns called a quick throw to Duke Johnson in the left flat. Two receivers had lined up there and drove deep, taking coverage with them. Johnson ran parallel to the line of scrimmage underneath the two wideouts and was very much open.

Manziel looked at him, didn’t throw, then scampered to his right where he threw incomplete to a well-covered Isaiah Crowell on the sideline. That was an example of a play the Browns want Manziel to take, the early read that is open.

“It can’t be the opposite, where I’m looking to get out no matter what,” Pettine said.

Jaworski agreed, saying to succeed in the NFL, a quarterback has to use his mobility only when the pocket read is not there.

“It is about structure, it is about discipline,” Jaworski said.


Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel can't consistently beat NFL defenses by escaping the pocket and improvising. David Richard/AP Images
He said in the first half, the Bengals “lost their discipline” and Manziel was able to make plays when he scrambled. In the second half, the Bengals played much more disciplined and limited him to 40 yards.

“His first instinct is to run around,” Jaworski said.

Manziel admitted he has played a certain way his entire life and now he has to adapt.

“I think there were some things that were there that I didn’t see or I just missed a little bit,” he said.

The reason a team can’t totally commit to an atypical offense is because history has proved that in the long run, it will not succeed.

“NFL offense requires structure,” Jaworski said.

The easy thinking, then, is that the Bengals provided the blueprint to stop Manziel. Rush, play Cover 2 and avoid man coverage that allows receivers to break free if he does scramble and make him make the throws.

“There’s no perfect coverage or else everyone would run it,” Pettine said. “It’s on us as an offensive staff to put our guys in the position to be successful.”

And it’s on the quarterback to make the throw when the play that is drawn up could be successful. That’s what coaches mean when they say that players need to “execute.” A play can look awful, but if a receiver runs a wrong route or a quarterback does not throw to the first read, it’s hair-pulling to the staff.

The Browns do have Austin Davis as their third quarterback. He played and won games in St. Louis last season. Pettine was asked if Davis is pushing Manziel.

Before Wednesday, his answer had always been that Manziel was the firm No. 2 behind McCown.

“There aren’t many jobs on this team that are etched in stone, if that answers your question,” Pettine said.

The Browns continue to hope that Josh McCown’s injured ribs allow him to start Sunday in Pittsburgh. If he can’t play, Manziel will start.

You try way too hard. It's embarrassing.

You don't go to a doctor that learns by doing. You don't want to be represented by a lawyer that learns by doing. An NFL QB's job is probably harder than either of those to be good at.

It's like you learning the guitar for the first time and me throwing a brick at you every time you hit a bad note. You won't live long enough to get good at it.

Are you a Musician by trade?

Now Manziel comes out basically saying "Eff it, I am who I am" responding at distance to his HC's criticism.

Who's that successful scrambling NFL QB again?

Scrambling is an "add-on", not a feature. When your game relies on scrambling, you're toast in this league. RG3, Kaep were the most athletic, most everything and where are they now?

QFT

All doctors "practice medicine". They try something on you and if that doesn't work then they try something else, and you pay them for both including the one that didn't work.

Lawyers are also said to be "practicing law".

You may think the word practice means something else in those instances but it doesn't.

I can see using the local musician example is lost on you and that's ok. You've never tried it so you can't be expected to understand. My bad. Wrong analogy.

I don't know what you do for a living. But if it's by using any kind of valuable skill you may have then you should already know that your take on what Johnny needs before he "steps on the field" is a bit far fetched.



So far, all we have in this exchange is your opinion and mine. It's obvious that your opinion is tainted by your dislike of Manziel and that is obvious by your many posts enlightening us on that. So since we are so far apart on a subject that neither of us really know much about I'm done with this.

Just what would expect Thomas and Greco to say to a local sports writer, talking about your own QB?

Everyone on this team knows that Johnny is Haslam's boy and they know how to address the media when asked anything about Manziel.

When you say everybody, exactly who do you mean...

daman...do ask senseless questions just to run up your reply count?

Can you read the 53 names on the Browns roster?
...let me help you out... roster

Coming from you, that's priceless.

Coming from you, that's priceless.