DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Paris Terror Attacks

All this xenophobia, still. Haven't we learned that not all Germans are nazis, not all Christians go and blow up abortion clinics, not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all refugees are terrorists? Y'all turning this thread into Glenn Beck's radical Islam chalkboard.

Don't do this.

I'll just leave this here:
"Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots"
-Luke 23:34

You kill them all until there is no one left to pass on that ideology. You have to make them more tired of dying for their cause than your people are.

I haven't seen any Xenophobia here. Nobody has blamed Muslims as a whole. Seems you are just too gleeful to point fingers.

You make it sound so simple... lol If only real life were so simple.

This is yet another sad time for the world... so many injured, killed and effected.

Incredibly sad. ISIS are cowards.

So much refugee blaming in this thread. Most of the thread blames the refugees who many seem to assume are radical Muslims. Then we get posts about how they need to go fight and kill the idiots.

Nope, this thread is mainly about ISIS. Please try to follow along.

i see the regulars who think bombing them will do the trick are back at it.

Got names?

40 and erik.

Well put Neville.

Eve nailed it with them forming A caliphate is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph —a person considered a political and religious successor to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, and a leader of the entire Muslim community.

The end game...

They will rule over the entire world and the entire world will be Muslim. They do not need recognition as a sovereign state as they will be the leaders of the world government and the leaders of the worlds only religion.

The problem is that by admitting such a huge number of refugees into your society, certainly some are going to be radicals. Say a very small percentage, 1/10th of 1 percent are terrorists. When you have 750,000 (the number who've migrated to Europe so far), that would mean 750 terrorists were among them. That's a cause for concern and a lot of potential carnage.

Are these refugees being screened? If not...then I understand the problem.

What I took it to mean is that you dont have to wait for instructions from the "leaders"-you can have a sleeper cell act on its own. IF they were getting instructions from the "leaders" those are messages that can be intercepted. There is a pretty good article i was just reading about ISIS using the dark web and software like TOR and instant messaging that can be erased instantly that is posing lots of problems for the western intelligence community.
Also on the coverage last night, it was discussed that the intelligence community did not think it was a Al-queda attack because they would not attack random bars, restaurants, theaters because of the possibility of killing Muslims. ISIS doesn't seem to care so much as long as it sends its message.

Deep web isn't that hard to access. However, the FBI monitors it like crazy.

What are you going to screen them with, outdated "known terrorist" lists? Their own countries didn't know who's a radical and who isn't. It doesn't require a lot of intelligence to realize how foolish it is to welcome them all with open arms. I don't know what these European leaders were thinking by granting amnesty to such a large number of people, or Obama for that matter just taking 10k or more. Common sense should tell you that it's not "xenophobic" to be concerned about national security in this matter.

I get the concern. It's just dumb that a few idiots ruin safe asylum for those who truly need it.

What the hell about the 'few idiots' who killed so many people and injured so many others who truly didn't deserve it?

What the hell about the people that are OUR OWN PEOPLE that we can't even afford to take care of now?

Again, which of your neighbors loved ones or your own loved ones that could (and odds are on it will be) lost do you have the power to bring back?

We're only advocating preemptive caution by not wanting to bring them here.

Rocket, Swish and others I usually side with:

Sorry guys but I'm in the bigot camp on this one until somebody, anybody can tell me how to tell the difference between a moderate (good human being) Muslim and a radicalized (terrorist) Muslim refugee. It's not like they would be wearing a sign or stand up and self identify.

I know they have had it rough and may even face death in their own country. I also know they can't help where they were born, how they were raised, or what religion they were taught to believe. Most are good people that are pure victims of circumstance.

However with that said, for some reason I feel zero sense of responsibility for their plight, and it's not that I don't feel for them, I just don't have an answer for their problem. Additionally I have a huge sense of responsibility to protect American lives and assuming the potential risk that some (not all, not many but some) will be bad apples; it's a bet I'd rather not make. I know what I feel has nothing to do with what will happen, but if it were my call they would not come here.

The end goal is that simple. The process won't be, but you did ask. Do you really think these guys are going to give up if we do nothing?

So, you think obummer's Golum diplomacy is going to work (we be nice to them if they be nice to us). Did appeasement work against the Nazis? We're getting slowly dragged into a war. Would you prefer several thousand die or wait a few years and several hundred thousand die? It should be rather obvious to all of you that this war will happen eventually. We either keep our way of life, or have theirs forced upon us.

Here is a plan: Get out of the Middle East. Tell them all you will Nuke any country that attacks Israel and get out of their lives. They will turn on each other and in-fight another 1000 years.

I think that stops the foreign terror attacks but if foreign attacks continue, start deporting any and all immigrants from those countries that have not earned citizenship or can't qualify for sanctuary.

If the attacks still continue, blockade all ports, end all foreign trade and starve them. Or do anything else short of all out nuclear war or continuing what we are doing now; because what we are doing now does not work.

I firmly believe we are at war with an extremist version of the Islamic ideology. You can't beat an ideology in war without committing genocide, period.

They have been fighting each other and the world pretty much. That's the issue, their utmost hatred.

I'm not sure how you'd start to combat the threat, as it's been talked about over and over already. Instead of forcing all the cops to wear cameras, maybe we should devise a camera that can detect explosive devices? Maybe we could find some sort of technology or implement an existing one?

I don't know. It's hard to spot someone who is full of hate, has a weapon, has a bomb and is 100% already in the mindset they will kill themselves for their cause of blood and hatred.

When we wipe away one terror cell, another will just replace. It's almost to the point where the borders being shut down and not letting them hateful people in (which unfortunately shtus out the decent/non hateful (whatever few there seem to be)) is our best hope to reduce the threat and even at that, it's just reducing.

We've already established you have to get rid of terrorists, but how do you do it without causing more problems for yourself?

That's like if I asked how to you get rid of cancer, and you responded "find a cure"... Great.. HOW? There's ways to cure cancer, but it kills the rest of the body. We obviously don't want to do that...

Won't matter. Their goal is to make the entire world fall under their version of islam. If you are going to get rid of cockroaches, you have to kill them all, even if you have to tear down the house to kill them. The pieces are set, and we're going to have to kill them all.

Thanks for the cancer reference. How do you get rid of cancer? You cut it out, and poison the body around it to kill it all. You have to do damage to yourself to get it out of your body. I never said this would go without damage to us. My point is that this fight will cost us thousands to tens of thousands now. It will cost of hundreds of thousands or more if we keep waiting.

Man thank god you don't run anything important.

You forgot to take into account with regards to your warped idea of what the solution is that if you just start bombing everything, which is GENOCIDE by the way, that you just replaced the hatred from the Middle East with the hatred of the REST OF THE WORLD.

Thus not solving any problems. There will STILL be terrorist, probably even more thanks to you.

I swear people on this board just do not get it. Bombing them makes them STRONGER. They get more recruits, more people to their cause.

Bombing them in their perspective means they are doing so ring right to advance their cause. Especially if you just start bombing any and everything.

Say what you want, but the world HAD the best case scenario: the dictators that are in charge.

But of course, we had to go screw it up. And now we're crying over a problem that WE helped very much to create.

Man, I never thought I'd say it, but Carly Finoria was right: government creates the problem, and then tries to fix the problem, but ends up creating even more problems.

I don't know why you hate the politicians, Erik. They think JUST like you do, which is why we're in this mess.

OldCold, I feel you man. But we can't just create an issue and then be like "eh, screw it". We have to help SOME peopl out by giving them asylum. I'm not saying go fix the Middle East, but we are definitely party responsible for what's happening there right now.


I want everybody to understand something. When you advocate completely glossing over the area like 40 has in the past, or just bombing them over and over again like Erik has said, we DONT WIN.

We lose, and we lose any moral high ground we THOUGHT we had. We will no longer be the good guys. Understand that.

We have normal Arab Muslims who love it here. 99% have no issues here in America.

I wonder how much that percentage drops when we start killing everybody, regardless of collateral damage.


Listen to Erik, and we WILL have a true home grown terrorism problem here in the states.

Victor, you hinted at it, but pretty much nobody said anything, so i'll bring it up.

look at social media right now. look at our governments around the world right now.

Everybody putting up their profile pics with the french flag in the background. the world NOW is calling for mass effort to fight ISIS.

Why aren't people changing their profile pic to a Lebanese flag after 40 people just got killed?

why aren't people doing the same when Boko Haram has slaughtered over 2000 people? where's the unity?

but a bunch of europeans get hit and now everybody wants to be outraged and call to arms.

we absolutely pick and choose when it comes to terrorism. it's pathetic.

Here's an idea: Bring all the refugees over here, train them to fight for their own freedom, send them back to fight the problems within their own cultures.

We don't have to bomb anyone, we don't have to lose anyone.

A quick question:

How concerned with the 'moral high ground' were we in WWI and WWII? Or did we just have an objective to break the will of the enemy to fight?

Maybe because France said, "we are all Americans" on 9/11 while some Lebanese were celebrating in the streets? Our relationship with Nigeria has been strained for years. Do you really think it's pathetic that we're giving support to someone that's been an ally of ours since the revolutionary war while not showing the same support to these other places?

it sounds good, but i have to think about my own experience( in b4 Arch complains about be bringing up my military experience), and that these guys in Afghan and iraq.....aren't mentally tough.

the iraqi Army had not only the man power, but the US tech and EVERYTHING, and they still ran away from ISIS.

same thing with the Afghan police/Army. look, there are some hardcore soldiers there, but in general, these guys are just so battered by war that they just don't care anymore.

i dunno if anything would change training the syrians. we're already batting 0-2 when it comes to empowering the soldiers in the middle east.

Respectfully Arch... no, we do not have the will to win. Our politicians clearly don't, they are more worried about being PC. Unfortunately Leftists have enough influence in this country where when we have incidents like this happen, the blood and gore of innocent people still haven't dried, and the liberals are more worried about not hurting anyone's feelings.

The will to win is defined by doing what is necessary to win. And we won't. We haven't since WW2.

Terrorism is working and they are emboldened because we embolden them with our lack of conviction. Terrorism is working because we refuse to acknowledge the only thing that they understand and respect in that region of the world and act accordingly. Brute force and deadly violence. That's it. I don't think its about religion as much as people think it is. Let's take a quick look at how things have been handled in the last 14 years:

9/11:

Afghanistan: Initially we do what we do best, went in, kicked so much ass and took names. Then we got in to nation building and kept getting out hustled by the equivalent of gangsters like Karzhai.

Iraq: I'm ok with the reasons we went in. I'm not going to be as dishonest as most critics who judge it with what they now know in hindsight. Having said that, again we went in, kicked ass, took names and again we ended up getting outhustled by a bunch of petty warlords. We started giving up our leverage when we started getting PC and allowing the insurgents to hide out and attack us from mosques. The same mosques that had the positions been reversed, they would have blown up with double clutching the trigger. We got in to the game of nation building because we were afraid to look like Imperialists.

Under the recent President, we pull out of Iraq with no plan as to after which created an ever larger power vacuum.

Our current President draws lines in the sand, makes tough sounding promises and empty threats, all the while doing everything he can to avoid calling things and people what they are. Not a single person or nation that Obama has tried to stood up to has suffered any consequence of note. Of course terrorists are emboldened.

Our gov't and media celebrate deserters like Bergdahl. They punish Marines for pissing on the dead bodies of someone who just tried to kill them, and are treated like the committed some sort of warcrime. And now recent reports of servicemen being told to stand down or punished for trying to stop the rape of young boys???

On the home front what do we do? We change our FB profile pics, we hashtag the hell out of everything and say "we stand with you" and feel like we are making a difference. And that's it. No action. You think any of this in any way intimidates or makes ISIS think twice about anything?

What we SHOULD have done: In Iraq and A'stan, we knew who we were looking for. We hunt them down and kill them with extreme prejudice. Then we go home. If we want to "nation build", then we annex them as U.S. territories and set up our secular system of gov't that would have provided protection for all the warring religions. You stay there until such time the country is stabilized and able to vote its independence or be turned back over after a predetermined time like Hong Kong was. Anyone that uses the threat of violence is hunted down and killed with extreme prejudice.

And today? We know where ISIS is and who they are. Go in, hunt them down, and kill them with extreme prejudice. Make them fear us, and they would if we had the will to do it. We don't need to carpet bomb towns and lay waste to innocents. The steps our military has taken to preserve innocent lives is NOT what makes us weak or has hindered us from being successful. Its the politics and putting "feelings" above all else.

No Arch, the Will to win is certainly not on display.


Sorry guys for the angry rant, but this is the first I've commented anywhere about Paris because it really pissed me off. There is Evil in this world, but not enough people are willing to admit it, and even fewer still who are willing to do what it takes to combat that Evil.

so lip service determines who you support?

wow.

Yep, pulling out butts out of a big jam in the late 1700's, giving us the statue of liberty and whoever heard of Lebanese fires? Yuk!

Isn't Boko Haram a musical group?

you can't compare a military to a terrorist group Ted.

I'm sorry, but it's nowhere near the same.

and yes, it's pathetic.

you should be against ALL terrorism, not just with regards to countries you personally like.

Man whatever, it's to the point i don't take anybody seriously with their fake outrage anymore.

2000 people die in nigeria from ISIS, barely any media coverage. 100 die in paris, and now everybody is outraged.

I'll start taking people seriously when y'all start showing compassion for people not living in europe.

Lol. Seems to me we're returning the compassion they showed us after 9/11.

How Paris Stood with the U.S. after 9/11

...and you think it's pathetic that we don't show this same compassion to a country who had citizens celebrating in the streets? wow.