DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 9 Steelers 30 Postgame Thoughts

Cameron Erving is the quintessential Farmer pick ... he's BAAAAAD

He's bad? or did he have a bad game? Just asking. lol.

He was downright horrid tho..

This defense is absolutely pitiful. We will probably beat Baltimore, so we can lose draft position to them. Then they take the guy we want.

Blow it up. Offer a qualified candidate FULL control. That's the only way you'll have a shot at a good man.
I don't think Jimmy likes that route.

I hate to see it but it's inevitable.

Well, I don't believe in tanking a season for a draft pick but it certainly looks like that's what we're trying to (make it look like we're not?) to do?

Hey Mike

No chance...you've got...no chance in hell.

I hope they pick ahead of us and take the guy Farmer wants, forcing us to pick someone else .That will make us better and them worse

If they did start over, I don't think it would be any worse. The players we had last year that were good, were sent packing, and the so called "studs" we have are just going thru the motions.

How O'Neil survives another week is beyond me.

Which is what I think Mike tells his team before every game.

No, then Farmer would trade down so he can get two bad players.

Well, take this for what it's worth.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/11/15/9740016/jimmy-haslam-no-changes-coming-during-bye-for-browns

But he can play any position on the Oline like this. Today. He battled.

"Play like a Brown" is taking a cruel and embittering twisted meaning. Hate to see what it may mean by the end of this season.

Not sure if I ever saw an offensive lineman who was so weak as Erving. He was getting bull dozed. Embarrassing.

Anyone else notice how we get out-muscled in every game?

I mentioned that in one of the threads last week. Our oline gets pushed back, Our dline gets manhandled and our Db's get run over by Wr's.

Dang E, you're right.

We're not tanking the season. We're just not good enough to beat an NFL team right now. We have a lack of talent, football smarts, fundamentals, heart, and stones.

I wonder how long before we are demoted to the MAC.

We could probably win a couple more games then

My postgame thought? Jimmy O'Niel needs fired this bye week, and early too.

Perhaps? But man, how do you defend the play of guys like Gaines, Desir, and Williams on the outside?

That falls on Farmer. They all suck!

Come on man, I know we're all mad right now, but wasn't today Gaines first NFL game, and coming off an injury on top of that?

End of the half, and you have a rookie corner on Bryant and on man press, one on one, no over the top help? STUPID! Jimmy O'Niel just makes too many stupid mistakes like this. Anyone with a brain would have been in prevent, or had at least double up'ed on their best WR.

Just stupid.

That wasn't stupid. What was stupid is wasting a roster spot on a guy that has such terrible hips. Did you see how easily he was dusted on simple routes?

Look, it might not just be Farmer. It might be Farmer, Sheiner, and Pet................but whomever is evaluating talent sucks!!!

That's our real problem. Changing coaches and not improving the talent will do nothing but make things worse!!!!

I'll throw my $.02 into the Farmer/Pettine discussion.. hopefully it can be a civil discussion....

We are seeing the results of years of underachieving draft picks. We can't rush the passer, Mingo and Orchard were drafted to rush the passer and play OLB.. we can't cover anybody, Gilbert and McFadden were drafted to cover people.. we typically can't stop the run, Taylor, Hughes and then Shelton and Cooper were drafted to stop the run.. We can't run the ball, Bitonio, Erving, Schwartz, all drafted to solidify the OL, Richardson, West, Johnson all drafted to run the ball.. Our passing game doesn't scare anybody, Weeden, Manziel both drafted to solidify the QB position and Little and Gordon both drafted to be our BIG WRs... and all of these draft picks were in the last 4 or 5 years.. these guys were all round 1-3 draft picks I believe and should be the foundation of our team right now and.. well, we are getting very little. We also drafted Sheard who made plays, but expected to be paid so he was let go.. and Kirksey looks pretty decent.... 2 or 3 out of what, 15 round 1-3 draft picks actually being servicable is not going to cut it. (and yes, I realize not all of these picks are on Farmer, but enough are)

As for Pettine, I honestly don't know how much to put on him for the fact that almost NONE of these players appear to be getting any better. Is it possible they are all just that bad or are they not being made better or put in a position to make plays... Also a lot of his in-game decisions confuse me..

Hell, in the end, I don't know what to think... whatever it is, it's getting hard to watch.

Fair post. I have one question for you.

If we fire Pet and keep Farmer, do you really think this team will magically improve?

DC...I really don't understand Pet not interacting with the other coaches during the game... seems so cold.

And Farmer... he is following in the footsteps of missing the picks..

I'll answer: no. We won't.

But I have to add this: you really haven't spent equal time exploring the scenario that Farmer is gone and Pet remains.

Do we get better if that scene plays out?

can i ask a follow up question? As an X & O guy, how do you think this staff is doing getting the most out of the limited talent they do have? Basically, do you think the staff is getting everything out of their players and maximizing what talent they have by putting them in the right spots / schemes?

My comparison is Miami...they had obvious talent that was under performing and thus the coach needed to go. I just wonder if the opposite - in fact- is happening here, as I think you are saying? I personally like Flip and O'Neil had a good thing going last year and and made good improvement. Pet - can't get a good bead on whether he is really ready to handle full time NFL coach or not.

Post game thoughts... we don't look like an NFL team.. I don't put all of these in the same category but...

3 PI calls of 40 yards? (Even though one looked like total BS)
Manziel having the ball just fall out of his hand?
Jumping offsides on 4th and goal?
Leverage penalty on a chip shot FG giving them another chance at a TD?
Grasping for a guys shoulder pad taking an easy TD off the board?
Getting stripped from behind on a simple slant route?
Repeatedly catching a pass or running a sweep and giving ground consistently?
How many totally missed blocking assignments?
More dump offs that go for 30 yards against us?

And I'll ask this... when we got the ball on downs on our own 1 with 1:40ish left in the half... what the hell were we thinking? We had ONE chance to not give up points and that was to get a first down. We ran 2 QB sneaks even though they still had 3 TOs... then rather than force them to use all 3 of their TOs, on 3rd down we throw a hail mary down the sidelines.. and give them the ball back on our 45 with over a minute to play and a TO remaining.. of course it only took them 2 plays to score but that's beside the point. It's sad that we were so certain we would LOSE yardage trying to run up the middle that we wouldn't even try it... roll Manziel out, do something.. try to make something happen... that's when I officially knew we weren't even going to put up a fight.

I notice this every time they show him on the sideline during the games. I never see anyone within 10 feet if him...no coaches or players. I never even see him speaking into his headset. What, exactly, is it that Pettine does during the games? He always seems to be just standing there watching the team go down in flames week-in and week-out.

For goodness sakes, Mike, do something, because what you're doing now sure ain't working.

Not significantly... We could fire them all and put you and me in charge and I don't think we could look much worse, that's my level of frustration.

Vers, I don't know where the disconnect is. I have trouble believing you can miss on that many picks. You could throw darts at a board and do better than we are doing... I have to believe SOME of it is on the coach. Maybe they are just not on the same page at all as far as drafting the types of players Pet wants? You would almost have to TRY to draft that many round 1-3 guys that just can't play at all.

May I chime in ? The way you asked this question.. I feel you know the answer..

2 & 8 ...is that getting the max out of this team ? whether its a loss of a point or 17 it's still a loss

Actually I don't know the answer - because the answer indicates whether Pet / flip / O'Neil are doing all they can with what they have. When I watch games, i do scratch my head at how 'confused' we look and how often D players are looking around when a play gets missed. but then again, I see our DB's and LB's constantly chasing guys who are open - is the scheme or just talent mismatches? I really can't tell...the penalties are on the staff i would guess..

bottom line to me is if farmer goes and gets all top A talent, would this staff able to produce a solid winning team?

Some penalties can be on the staff.. some penalties result from lack of talent. In one on one coverage, if you lack the cover skills to be in the right position, the result is often PI... if as on OL you lack the skill to use your feet and hands correctly, you are often forced to hold... jumping off sides on FG attempts and 4th and 4... those are mental, those go on the staff.

Thanks for those great point! As bad as the game seemed, when i went back and watched, we made so many bad penalties at the worst times. I figure we 'gave' them about 17 points and we lost about 10-14 points.. about 2-3 plays make the game almost dead even...which is why trying to understand coaching or talent is so key here...

And some penalties can be from the coaches applying the wrong skillsets to specific tasks.

pathetic comedy of errors...
The Browns look like a complete train wreck out there. My wife and family are Steeler fans and it isnt even fun for them anymore. They used to just rib me and bust my stones, now they just feel bad for me.

It really does all come down to players and those that pick them doesn't it.

It's hard to even get mad at Pettine. I almost feel sorry for him to be honest.

How does someone take garbage like we have and turn it into something great? Not sure it can happen.

The last couple of games, he has looked terrible during the pressers. His mannerisms, speech, are vastly different than previous. The frustration, anxiety, stress seem to be getting to him...