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Haslam's promise hovers over Johnny Manziel-Josh McCown decision

Pat McManamon, ESPN Staff Writer
One major factor to consider in the discussion about whether Johnny Manziel or Josh McCown should start Sunday’s game against Pittsburgh is Jimmy Haslam’s preseason promise.

On Aug. 1 Haslam said that “we’re not going to blow things up” after this season. There was little equivocation.

Which leads to the quarterback decision.

If the Cleveland Browns decide now is the time to see what the team has in Manziel, the season changes from trying to win to trying to develop.

Which means a coaching staff has to believe that Haslam meant what he said, that their futures are safe if they go with developing players.

The coaching staff obviously believes that McCown is their best option right now. Had the team played the Bengals on Sunday rather than Thursday, McCown would have been the starter. The Browns didn’t start Manziel because they wanted to. They did it because they had to.

Manziel got out of the pocket and made backyard plays in the first half, but admitted himself that the second half was “eerily familiar” to the disaster against Cincinnati last season.

On an off weekend, he returned to Texas A&M where he was an honorary captain, and where he appeared again on social media at a party. He also awaits word from the NFL investigation into his recent driving incident in suburban Cleveland Oct. 12.

If the Browns decide to put their on-field trust in him, can the coaches do so with assurance it will not affect their future?

The passionate Manziel backers wonder what it will take to get their guy on the field. The coaches simply believe that McCown gives the team the best chance to win.

McCown ranks 12th in the league in passer rating (95.2), 11th in yards per game (271 despite playing one series against the Jets), 12th in completion percentage (65 percent). He’s done it with the NFL’s 31st ranked rushing offense and with a group of receivers who would probably be No. 3 or No. 4 wideouts on most teams.

McCown also has been the ultimate team player in terms of playing through issues and doing all he can to win.

The one thing McCown has not done, though, is win. He’s played better than anyone expected, but the team is still 2-7.

That alone is the argument for Manziel. The team is losing anyway, so let him play and see what he can do.

Except coaches don’t think that way. Nor are they paid to think that way. They think, believe, act and work on the premise that they will win the next game. That is why they sleep in offices, average five hours sleep and watch replays until their eyes bug out.

They work to win the next game.

If the coaches believe that McCown far and away gives them the best chance, then they play him. If they believe that Manziel’s chance to win is far less than the chance McCown presents, the coach’s decision is even easier.

Especially if a coach is worried that his job may be on the line. How can a coach go all-in on developing a player if the coach does not believe he will be part of the long-term future?

Why would Pettine play someone he does not believe can help him win if he’s doing it for the next guy?

Pettine has to be comfortable and positive that Haslam’s preseason statement meant something and still holds. If there is a shred of doubt, Pettine has to try to win games, because winning saves his job.

If he and the rest of the staff believe Manziel would be about growing pains first and winning second, and if they also believe that McCown gives them the best chance to win games, then McCown remains the starter.

Short of a written, notarized and legal document guaranteeing he’ll be back in 2016, Pettine has to go with the guy he believes can win for him.
link

Jimmy Haslam isn't the problem around this team ..

Of course he is ; he is the owner , he did all the hires , the Buck stops at HIS DESK !

The dirty secret.

j/c:

Just for you, Rish

Mike Pettine's divisive decision to not start Johnny Manziel may signal exit

There is sweeping support for Johnny Manziel to take over as starter for the Cleveland Browns throughout various segments of the organization, to the point where the refusal by coach Mike Pettine to make the change may only hasten the coach's own demise. Manziel, while hardly spectacular, has performed well, by and large, in two spot starts filling in for injured veteran Josh McCown. But Pettine would not commit to going with the youngster in Week 10 and continues to display an unyielding loyalty to the veteran at a time when many within the franchise, from ownership on down, are more than ready to see what Manziel can do on a more extended basis.

The Browns are once again mired in what appears to be a lost season, with major changes in football operations and coaching likely looming again. It is no secret within the organization that owner Jimmy Haslem, a major proponent of drafting the talented but troubled Manziel in 2014, would like to get a good look at the quarterback now rather than continue to move forward with McCown, who has played well and is highly respected but who is not a part of the team's long-term future.

Sticking with McCown at this point might not quite be akin to a coaching mutiny, and Pettine certainly has the ability to start players as he sees fit per his contract, but to disregard a sentiment this sweeping would serve to only further divide a building that has long suffered from issues between personnel and coaching and would call Pettine's decision-making further into question internally if not externally.

Furthermore, how Manziel is utilized will also be monitored closely, with the idea, as espoused by Pettine during a sideline interview at halftime of last Thursday's loss at Cincinnati, that Manziel needs to make more plays within the pocket. There are some philosophical differences about how much improvisation needs to be inherent in the mobile quarterback's game (and how much should be coached out of him), and at this stage of a hapless season other decision-makers in the building would prefer to see what this offense looks like with Manziel able to run some, make plays outside the pocket and use his feet to set up play action. Manziel has shown enough energy and spark to a talent-devoid offense to merit an extended look in the eyes of many Browns execs.

The Browns are now just 2-12 since surging to a 7-4 start last season, with Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer among those who could be let go this offseason.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jaso...-johnny-manziel

Losing your job cause you refuse to start an immature, can't stay sober, can't stay out of the media little kid who hasn't even remotely come close to living up to the hype and/or expectations, yeah... only here in Cleveland.

Thanks Memphis. My laziness has no limits.

The ironic thing in all this is Manziel is the only one who can save his job at this point.

Dawg_LB, if Mike Pettine gets fired at the end of the season, it may have some to do with Manziel, but ultimately he's a pretty awful coach. Even average coaches don't go on 2-12 runs. The guy is just clueless.

If the decision to keep or fire Pettine is going to be based upon his win/loss record then Pettine must do what ever he alone, not you, me, the media or even the owner, thinks he needs to do.

If the decision to keep or fire Pettine will not be based upon his win/loss record but rather on whether or not he does what the owner wants him to do, well, if I'm the HC, that's a road I wouldn't even want to begin to go down.

Yeah, its just one more article designed to sell ad space.

Let's break this down: In McCown we have a guy throwing almost 300 yrds a game and has what? something like a 2.5 to 1 TD/INT ratio? And this reporter expects us to believe that externally people are questioning his decision not to bench him?

Last year Hoyer was going in to a death spiral and people wanted Manziel, but Pet held out because he knew Manziel wasn't ready. But Pet was looked at as stupid for not playing him. Manziel finally comes in and.. SURPRISE! Manziel wasn't ready...

Same with this year. Pet clearly doesn't think he's ready, or at least able to perform at a level greater than McCown.

If any of this split in the office is true, I think Pet sticking with McCown is actually securing his next job, and PET giving them the rope to hang themselves. If PEt gets fired because he won't put Manziel #1 on the depth chart because he's not ready, there's a damn good chance the 2016 Browns come out on the field without a HC because no one will want to come here.

I'm also surprised Pet is still getting crap about his half time comments. He was right. Manziel did miss some reads he should have made. But somehow in being right, he's wrong. Hell, if Manziel running is SOOOOOO important, may as well ditch the OC too... no need for him.

I don't know if it will or won't. But Pettine's behavior highlights two key problems in the organization. 1. Pettine is a really bad coach who gets no help or support from his organization. The guy is left out on an island on his own, and he's barely able to keep his head above water, making terrible decision after terrible decision. 2. The fact that Haslam, Farmer, and Scheiner would put Pettine in that position speaks to the severe dysfunction in the organization. These guys aren't on the same page and don't have a single unified plan for the future. It's an every man for themselves situation, and everyone is willing to stand by and watch Mike Pettine fail. What an awful environment to work in. This tells me one thing and one thing only, they want Mike Pettine to fail.

He's as good as gone.



Maybe that's why Pettine continues to figuratively give the organization a one finger salute week after week. I think he knows he's dead man walking and he's going down his own way. I can at least respect that.

Evaluate Pettine as a coach without anything Manziel related. Take Manziel out of the equation and look at everything else, then provide your evaluation of Pettine as a coach.

He may be the worst we've had since the return. And, wow, is that saying something.

For the sake of argument, if they really do want him gone... to what end? Who do they think they will get to replace him? I find it hard to believe that they would cut their noses of to spite their face. If this FO is that far up Johhny's butt that they would run what will end up being an entire coaching staff out of town, then I think Pet is the least of the problems with this team.

Be careful what you are suggesting here.... that would mean the team's success last year had nothing to do with Pet, and everything to do with... *gulp*... Hoyer?

I'll admit that there IS a huge difference between 1st Season Pet and 2nd Season Pet, and not for the better. I'll admit that I thought after the preseason nonsense w/ Farmer that Pet had secured a good deal of control, yet it seems like this team is out of control.

Manziel aside, I look at last year when Pet focused on the D... it gave up yards to the run, but it was good enough to get us to the playoffs had we had more out of our offense.

This year, he's focused on the offense and while our run game sucks, the O has put up points and if we had 80% of last years defense, we'd have a strong hold on 2nd place in our division.

How much of that is him, I dunno, but I don't think its coincidence.

Again, you assume Pettine is getting fired because of Manziel.

Pettine is getting fired because of Pettine, and there is a laundry list of reasons for that, many that have nothing to do with Manziel.

I'm sure they're looking into candidates as we speak.

Hell, maybe even the worst ever in the history of the National Football League. Why not just go there?

Honestly even though Mike has made some super boneheaded calls as coach can anyone honestly think he has a chance with this roster? This is a defense that should be top 10 with all the resources spent and the fact they are at the bottom is inexcusable. Farmer has totally ignored the receiver position and we are left with the worst group of midgets in the league. Imagine if we didn't have Barnidge?

Even though I put most of the blame on Farmer, I just can't see Pet keeping his job unless he wins at least 6 and that's a long shot. Like I said in another thread, no staff is going to survive regressing this far.

I'm not trying to embellish to make a point ddub. 2-12 is really bad. Being outscored 55-3 in three consecutive 2nd halves is really bad.

--a soft training camp that seemed to lack any type of purpose or focus
--draft picks not playing up to their potential, no player development
--proven veterans playing at all time low levels
--lack of passion and focus on the field, team is not competitive
--lack of discipline on the field, lots of penalties, many at inopportune times
--last ranked D in the league

A lot of this isn't Pettine's fault. When you hire someone who's inexperienced you have to provide an infrastructure that will allow that person to grow and succeed. You hired them for a reason. Because you believe in them long-term. But Haslam has created an every man for themselves organization. And this is the result that we get.

more like a one to one turnover rate. 11 TDs to 10 turnovers.

I can't disagree with this list. There's no way to prove this one way or the other, but I suspect that coming in to this season Pet gave over a little more of the leadership/discipline to the vets after seeing how they took the younger guys to task. But in doing so elevated them above their station so to speak.

This explains all the time off the vets were getting. Something like that creates a buddy buddy relationship.

Because of that relationship, it would explain why some of the players felt they were in a position to talk about who should or shouldn't be on the roster.

All this adds up to lack of respect and trust in the coaches, and a decrease in discipline. That right there starts the players with a negative view of anything the coaches are trying to install and this in turn makes it all self defeating.

Just spit balling.

I have been one of Pet's staunchest supporters but after the opening day game, I was talking to Vers and said this team is in serious trouble. When the only 2 guys that show up for opening day, you are in serious trouble. The team was flat in preseason, they have played with no passion in most of the games.

Rishuz is correct in this is probably the single worst year for a head coach since the return. You cant blame the lack of QB as they have played well. You really cant say its the receivers as they have played well. Pet was the coach to bring in power football and a strong defense. Those are the areas were we have had the worst run game since the return and one of the worst defenses since the return.

Mangini, I hated but his team's played their asses off for him. Romeo was an idiot but even in his worst year they had something to hold their hat on. This team has nothing. You take a team with 6 probowlers have a career backup QB breaking records and you are a 2 win team that is likely to win 4 at most.

Horrible horrible year as a head coach. Player usage, clock management, team discipline, player development are the things a head coach has full control of and these are things that are glaring deficiencies.

If not for McCown vs Manziel debate to side track the real issues, Pet would have probably already been fired for incompetence.

i don't understand why Pettine gets any love at all. Not like he's done anything here in Cleveland to make one think he's a real coach. Is he excellent at anything? No. He's not. I haven't seen one thing he does better or even as well as a top coach would. He's not a defensive genius. Our defense sucks. He's not an offensive powerhouse, our offense is pathetic. Discipline? We have little of that. He runs a softer camp than Romeo's camp cupcake. Does he motivate our players to greatness? No. So he can't out think or out coach the opposition. He can't motivate his team to play up to or better than their ability. Under Pettine we almost always under achieve. Developing players? Laughable at best. So he's not good at adjustments, preparation, X's and O's, developing talent, discipline, or any other area a coach must excel at.

Pettine is a piss poor coach working for a piss poor franchise.

I guess he's a good coach for a team and players who don't care if they win or lose.

there is no reason to keep Pet. we should fire him now and get it over with.

this is probably the worst coached Browns team I have ever seen. stupid penalties. terrible decisions that all start and end with coaching.

You're right. He should be fired for more reasons than just this.

And with this comment, I too will say that you're right. The fact that this team draws so many stupid penalties ALONE, just that simple fact alone - game after game means this staff should just be torched and you do that by axing the head coach.

Pettine can take his ego, and his buddy Jimmy O'Niel whom is a total failure at coorindator without being babied like he was last year - outta Cleveland. I cannot support this staff anymore.

And they can take Ray right along with them. I want continuity but it's obvious Pett and Ray just aren't the people to get the job done.

With this roster, we should have a decent defense. Quotes from Kruger and others like Tramon, show me that the players know the scheme is bad. O'Neil got his job because he is Pettine's friend, so it only shows that if O'Neil is canned, so will Pettine be.

Pettine thinks his defense is a good one, but it is not. I doubt you could keep him and hire a new DC.

This sucks, but something needs done.

j/c:

Just as I expected and predicted........even though almost EVERY ONE OF YOU BLEW ME OFF WHEN You said I was negative, an agenda poster, a hater, etc. I tried warning you that when you over-estimate the talent of a roster, that there will be victims when reality sets in.

And what is amazing to me..........is that you STILL don't see it.

Fire Pet. Keep Farmer. And yeah..............things will magically get better next year. LMAO. Gilber will be great. Bowe will dominate. Shelton will become a force. ERving will get strong. Etc, etc..........it's all the coaches fault and the talent is great.

Wanna bet?

Since talent we lack, this give an idea of breakdown by position spending this year. something like 54% is tied up on Defense. If we need that much of a talent overhaul...how many years before we get a team worth .500?

There are coaches out there who would have done more with less... Mike Pettine is out of his element as a head coach. I mean, who would build a staff with all rookie coaches in their various positions. Someone should have been fired already.

There is no desperation. I'm not sure the players respect him. I believe he's lost the locker room.

j/c:

Cleveland Browns: Tramon Williams talking, Mike Pettine should listen

There is both personal pride and frustration in the message being sent by Tramon Williams after the Cleveland Browns’ humiliating loss, but he is not speaking for Tramon Williams. Instead, he is speaking up for the young players who cannot afford to speak up for themselves currently. Williams is both voicing many of the concerns and frustrations of young players trying to earn their way into the league while also speaking to the best interests of the team and head coach Mike Pettine should listen to him.

Williams is 32 years old and on his last contract in the NFL. He is taken care of in terms of his career and could easily be in a position to just sit back and get his direct deposit on the 1st and 15th of each month, looking ahead to life after football.

The fact that he isn’t is a positive.

"Whatever the coaches ask of us we try and do the best of our abilities but at the same time.. You let a player be a player”
Twitter Link

Tramon isn’t talking about Tramon. He’s talking about players like K’Waun Williams, Pierre Desir, Justin Gilbet, and the rest of the players in the defensive backs room. Young players that have their careers still in front of him, they hope – players that cannot afford to be overly critical in public, worried they will be labeled and shunned here as well as in the rest of the league.

Williams is talking to defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil and head coach Mike Pettine. Specifically, he’s going public pointing at the issues that O’Neil is causing in hopes that Pettine will act to correct them. This is not a new issue, but Williams is taking a new tactic with it in hopes of getting through to Pettine, because nothing has worked to this point.

Obviously, Williams wants to win, wants to succeed, be a part of something special, but he’s also at a point in his career where he can look out for the next generation too. He wants to be able to have left an impact on young players and leave a positive legacy when he retires.

Behind the scenes, Williams has been doing more than most Browns fans realize. He’s been operating as an advocate and a support system in addition to being the team’s top sideline corner this season. This just happens to be the public’s first look at what players admire and appreciate about Williams has since signing as a free agent from the Green Bay Packers.

The Browns play man coverage. That is who they are and what they do. And most corners love that. It is man on man and constantly competing, seeing who the better man is in a given matchup. That is one of the reasons Williams came here in the first place.

However, Williams is referencing two big complaints.

First, messing around with where guys are playing in man coverage. For example, trying to have a slot corner move outside and become a sideline corner to facilitate a particular matchup. The Browns have specific techniques for their sideline corners in how they line up, punch and use the sideline while slot corners tend to be more inclined to outside in and if they press, press to the inside where their help is.

There are certainly corners that are capable of just going anywhere, but it is difficult to make that transition within the course of a single week and expect it to be carried out effectively. Mostly, it just puts players in a position where they feel like they are going to get hung out to dry.

Second, while corners like to compete and want to win in 1 on 1 matchups, they really hate having to do it consistently without any help over the top.

This week, this season under O’Neil, the Browns have played an incredible amount of Cover 0, meaning that everyone is playing straight man coverage without any safeties dropping into zone. This week in particular, that ended with the Browns playing Cover 0 with Johnson Bademosi lined up across from Antonio Brown with no help behind him.

Whatever feelings any critic has for Bademosi (I don’t think he’s a good corner myself), Brown is in the argument for the best receiver in the league and the Browns do not have any corner that inspires confidence in a pure 1 on 1 matchup with Brown. Even Joe Haden at his best has struggled with Brown consistently.

As one might expect, the ball found its way to Brown and he scored a touchdown easily. Bademosi looks awful because Brown makes the great play, but the fact is the coaching staff was putting Bademosi in a losing position. This is what Tramon Williams is addressing in his comments.

Williams was quick to point out that the players need to do their part and play better in his media availability, but simply put, he is tired of his guys being in positions to lose. And with O’Neil showing no ability to change or improve upon the situation, Williams is trying desperately to get Pettine to step in to make changes that would give these guys a fighting chance.

To some, Williams will sound disloyal or like he’s speaking out of turn – that he’s hurting Pettine by speaking out on this matter. The reality is Williams may be one of the biggest allies Pettine has. Had Pettine listened to players like Williams earlier, this would not have been necessary.

Williams also would not be speaking up for young players if he did not think they were capable of being productive players that could help this team. He thinks they can help and does not want to see this team and specifically O’Neil potentially kill their earning power with bad football.

http://nflspinzone.com/2015/11/16/cleveland-browns-tramon-williams-talking-mike-pettine-listen/

When we're down to 2nd & 3rd string cornerbacks and safeties at the same time, and have only 1 1st string starter in your entire secondary, there are really only two choices:

1. Ask guys to do tough assignments, and hope for the best, but probably get ripped apart
2. Go preseason-level vanilla, and get ripped apart

If you go vanilla and try to cover for the weak secondary too much, that means you completely give up on trying to bring extra pressure.

I'm not excusing anything, but just trying to shine a little more light on the choices. Basically, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Good article - a very interesting read.

But was it not saying more than that, Purp? About guys "playing out of position"?

And who was that brilliant author? Did you really not notice how he took a comment or two and ran w/it? He put his own spin on it and acted like that was Williams' intent.

I pay particular attention to observations, not conclusions ...

I think so, and it's what I have been saying, not just me but others on here who state square pegs and round holes.

I remember last year, when Pettine spoke of K'Waun Williams being a slot guy, period. (and Gilbert being an outside guy, period, and that was why Williams was ahead of Gilbert) We had a guy who could swing inside or outside in Skrine, but he really was the main guy who did that.

This year does seem to be a reversal of that ideal. It is one more concern. Maybe this was the plan for year 2 of the defense ..... as they gained more experience..... but I do think that the author is right. You can put players in position to win, or in position to lose, and it appears that we have put guys in position to lose.

I just hope Williams is talking to the coaches rather than using the media to air this out.

While I see William's point I also see what the author did there. That's a blog site with no real football insight. It's been referenced on here before and the take was similar, decent writer as a poster on a message board but lacking football knowledge while having a desire to shake things up for mouse clicks.

I don't see a problem with Pettine's scheme as much as with the talent to carry it out.

I know Pettine wants to play man. He came here with Haden on one side, Skrine wanting out for more money which he got for playing nickel, and hoping Gilbert would be worth the #8 pick. Having Haden and a superb Gilbert opposite him, along with a healthy Gipson, would have gone a long way in making the scheme work.

The other part in making that work would be having a pass rush. Even the guys we're running out there now at CB would have more success if we had a pass rush. When a guy like Ben, on a broken foot, can just stand there and lob deep balls to that group of WRs then somebody's going to lose and most often it'll be those corners given the WRs talent and Ben's arm.

It doesn't even take a Ben to do it. We've played some pretty good QBs this year and our lack of a pass rush is killing us.

In summary I'm saying, Pettine has a good scheme. He just doesn't have the players, CBs or pass rush (especially the pass rush), to make it work.

Maybe Ifo Ekpre-Olomu wil get healthy and be what we wanted Gilbert to be.