DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... At least someone is doing something about Chicago violence

wow. I wonder if kids in the inner city have ever heard that advice before. I really wonder. Hmmmmm. We should still set up some things because words are really nice to hear and all, but they also don't do anything. I can give you instructions on how to build a table, but without materials, tools or an understanding, you're left without a lot of nothing.

And, get this: An example covers a small category of people. When someone asked me a question and I answered with an example. I did not cut off the discussion, I just gave an example. For example, if I think JFF is a moron because of his off the field behavior, this doesn't mean that I don't think JFF is not a moron because of his on the field actions. It's just one example and doesn't limit the debate.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, is your point that a black politician should put black issues first because they are black? And if he/she doesn't, then that shows what kind of person they are?

Don't join a gang.
Don't do drugs.
Get an education - your first 12 years are paid for - use it.

Don't murder people.
Don't hang around people that murder people.

Study.


I don't know that those are Carson's policies. I don't know what policies he has that aren't helping inner city youth.

But I do know following those simple rules would help a lot of the inner city youth.
--------------------------------------------------------
This advice from Arch sounded good to me. If the inner city youth think they know better than this advice they should stop making excuses and show us the way.

Pretty much the same advice I gave my out of city youths. They took it and ran with it.

So, we need to just throw more money at the problem?

How about people take what they are given (education, advice, opportunity), and USE it.

Don't blame me for the problems in the inner cities.

Inner cities have problems, no doubt. But all the money thrown at them hasn't helped. The people need to step up, take the help, and use it to better themselves. It IS possible. It just takes work.

And when you see the dealer, the gangs - getting what you want and getting it now, it makes it much tougher.

It will take a culture change. How to make that happen, I don't know.

And it's not just inner cities. Place I used to go to in West Virginia - man, beautiful place. Unemployment is super high, even though jobs are available. Problem is, those that are unemployed don't want to work - too much is given to them for free.

Now, please don't take that to mean I don't want to help - inner city people or appalachian people - that's not the case.

What do you know. This is what Carson did, and he get's crap because he's not 'black' enough or something. He did the exact thing he needed to do to get himself out of the hood, which we keep being told can't happen because of 'systematic racism'. He got himself out from under the yoke of socialism, and the left doesn't like him for that.

No where did I say that. I'm not even sure what "Putting black issues first" even means. I'm not really sure anyone does this, but I could be surprised as I really don't KNOW what it means.

According to Ben Carson, this is not what he did.

I haven't. I won't.

I didn't say you said it, that's why my response was in the form of a question... asking you if that was close to what you meant.. answer is no, got it.


You started out by saying an Uncle Tom is a person whose policies don't help inner city youth... am I off base again to infer that "inner city" really means black? Since we are talking about "Uncle tom" that doesn't seem like a stretch to me... So by putting black issues first, I was asking if those inner city youth things should be more important than other things that help other people...

B

Swisher, not saying we don't like it. I could care less. Just saying I'm tired of your black/white rhetoric. It gets old then no one listens. If you would express your concern for "humanity" you could most likely be more successful and garner much serious consideration. To me, it's just so unfortunate that you have so much to offer but you offer it always in the racist forms. So sad...so, so sad.

"Allowed" sorry, no one "allows me to say anything. I say what I want when I want. There is no "allow" here....by anyone.

See, that is the peoblem with a old guy like me. A balck man does good and he is a Uncle Tom.



What that says to me is that Carson has done well in an Ameican world, so screw him.


I say screw you.


Ben Carson is exactly the model young black people need to follow. The doors are open if you haven't noticed.

Just saying

I don't really mean screw you.....I just don't get it.

Welcome to the board

I have not had my behind whipped in 37 years (although a few people have tried) Not worried about being called racist since anybody who knows me can attest to, while those who don't know me I really don't worry about. Now as far as World Star who do you think taught Logic how to do this

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhTK63Fe64hmWPD5BO

How so? Yes, he could have very easily been one of the disaffected youth that continued to spiral down the path of hate and self loathing, but he decided to get his education and move up and out.

Thank you for the welcome...I've been reading this board for about 10yrs, give or take.

I remember the old board and feel like I know most of you quite well, well the online persona anyway..

Swish gets under my skin a little bit and I probably should've stayed in the background..but either way I appreciate the welcome:)

10 years? The old Board? Never commented?
You must have bitten your tongue and broken some furniture over all those years of reading us and not commenting!
Welcome.

I think him trying to stab his friend strays from "Don't murder" path.

Haters gonna hate.

Everyone knows he's a very celebrate and gifted person. However, that's not why he is being called an "Uncle Tom". People are looking at his policies when they say it. No one is criticizing him for being a very successful surgeon.

I don't know any policies that help black people more than someone else. This is where my confusion stems from. Could you provide an example?

Not even the Policies that allow for the NAACP, The United Negro College Fund, National Urban League, The National Black Chamber of Commerce?

Trying to stab does not a murder make. I guess he followed that path, as the stabbing never happened, nor did the murder.

Affirmative action.

On and on and on.....

Seems to me that Majority America has bent over backwards to help our Minority Citizens in their daily lives.

You should also consider that Carson included those stories in his book, as that was the path he was on before he decided to change. This was supposed to be his story of personal redemption and change.

I guess that since he did not become the person you think he should be, that his successes should be discounted.

Well when you see the crap that the majority has done throughout this country's history, maybe they should.

Constantly living in the negative past, prevents one from moving forward to a positive future.

Me, I'm movin on up.......

Take Swish with you, to the East Side, to a Deluxe apartment in the sky-yie...

:-)

Ignoring he past is how we keep making the same stupid mistakes.

But dwelling on the past will always hold you back!

I will remember my past but will not dwell on it, it will probably only take me a couple of years to get over Obama and move on.

Maybe we shouldn't. Here are some excerpts from Jason Riley's book, Please Stop Helping Us. BTW, he is a conservative black man.

“Liberals like to complain that, the twice-elected President Obama notwithstanding, we are not a “post-racial” society. The reality is that they wouldn’t have it any other way. Race consciousness helps cohere the political left, and black liberalism’s main agenda is keeping race front and center in our national conversations. That’s why, for example, much more common black-on-black crimes take a back seat to much less common white-on-black crimes. The last thing that organizations like the NAACP want is for America to get “beyond” race. In their view, racial discrimination in one form or another remains a significant barrier to black progress, and government action is the best solution.”

“Were [W.E.B] Du Bois and [Dr. Martin Luther] King alive today, they would no doubt be glad to know that between 1970 and 2001 the number of black elected officials in the United States grew from fewer than fifteen hundred to more than nine thousand. But they would also have to acknowledge that this political success had not redounded to the black underclass. Between 1940 and 1960–that is, before the major civil rights victories, and at a time when black political power was nearly nonexistent–the black poverty rate fell from 87 percent to 47 percent. Yet between 1972 and 2011–that is, after major civil rights gains, as well as the implementation of Great Society programs–it barely declined, from 32 percent to 28 percent, and remained three times the white rate, which is about what it was in 1972. By 2013 Mississippi had more black elected officials than any other state, but it also continues to have one of the highest black poverty rates in the nation…While blacks were steadily increasing their numbers in Congress and among elected officials at the state and local levels in the 1970s, ’80s, and ’90s, black welfare dependency rose, as did black teen unemployment, black crime, and black births to single mothers…Thomas Sowell has spent decades researching racial and ethnic groups in the United States and internationally. And his findings show that political activity generally has not been a factor in the rise of groups from poverty to prosperity…economic gains have generally preceded political gains…Moreover, in those instances where the political success of a minority group has come first, the result has often been slower socioeconomic progress.”

“The black inmate population reflects black criminality, not a racist criminal justice system, which currently is being run by one black man (Attorney General Holder) who reports to another (the president). Black crime rates are vastly higher than white crime rates. And it’s hard to see how wishing away this reality, inventing conspiracy theories to explain it, or calling those who point it out “racist” will help improve the situation.

Perceptions of black criminality aren’t likely to change until black behavior changes. Rather than address that challenge, however, too many liberal policy makers change the subject. Instead of talking about black behavior, they want to talk about racism or poverty or unemployment or gun control. The poverty argument is especially weak. In the 1950s, when segregation was legal, overt racism was rampant, and black poverty was much higher than today, black crime raters were lower and blacks comprised a smaller percentage of the prison population. And then there is the experience of other groups who endured rampant poverty, racial discrimination, and high unemployment without becoming overrepresented in the criminal justice system.”

“Unions insist that the differences in outcomes between black and white students mainly reflect income disparities, which are outside the control of teachers and schools. In fact, if the education establishment is to be believed, all of the problems within public education are caused by factors outside of public education. As [American Federation of Teachers President Randi] Weingarten put it, “Jason, don’t talk to me about an achievement gap until we solve poverty in this country.” Yet there is overwhelming evidence that the underprivileged black children that traditional public schools have failed so miserably are not unteachable. There have long been schools willing and able to educate the hardest cases. But many (though not all) of these schools operate outside of the traditional public-school system, so teachers’ unions and their political allies work to undermine them. Again, what drives Weingarten and the politicians who carry her water is not racial animus. The simple fact is that unions have a stake in keeping kids in schools that they control, and the politicians want to get elected, which is more difficult when you cross the teachers’ unions.”

“Liberals who claim to care so much about underprivileged blacks not only relegate them to the worst performing schools, but also the most violent schools. The Obama administration has chastised schools for disciplining black kids at higher rates than white kids, as if racial parity in disciplinary outcomes is more important than safety. Such thinking also assumes that the suspensions reflect racial animus rather than simply which kids are acting out. But if statistical outcomes prove discrimination, what explains the fact that Asians are disciplined at lower rates than whites? Are the schools also anti-white? Liberals do no favors for black kids who are in school to learn by sympathizing with black kids who are in school to make trouble.”

“In 1940 the black poverty rate was 87 percent. By 1960 it had fallen to 47 percent, a 40-point drop that predated not only affirmative action but the passage of landmark civil rights bills that liberals would later credit with the steep decline in black poverty. Did affirmative action play a role in reducing the percentage of poor blacks? If so, it wasn’t much of one. In 1970, 33.5 percent of blacks would be living below the official poverty line. In 1990, two full decades of affirmative action later, it would be 31.9 percent. Affirmative action deserves about as much credit for the decline in black poverty as it deserves for the rise of the black middle class. In both cases, racial preferences at best continued a trend that had already begun. And in both cases the trend was considerably stronger in the decades immediately following their implementation. If, as the NAACP claims every time someone spots a Confederate flag at a parade, white racism is a major barrier to group progress, how can it be that black people were rising out of poverty and into the middle class at a faster clip when racism in the United States was legal, socially acceptable, and rampant–none of which is the case today?

Blacks as a group, and poor blacks in particular, have performed better in the absence of government schemes like affirmative action. That’s not an argument for returning to Jim Crow; civil rights are fundamental to a free society, and it was wrong to deny them to blacks. But it does suggest that there are limits to social engineering that arrogant politicians and public-policy makers continue to ignore.”

“After George Zimmerman was acquitted in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, President Obama explained the black response to the verdict in this way: “They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent pas in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.” Obama was doing exactly what liberals have been conditioning blacks to do since the 1960s, which is to blame black pathology on the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow laws. And the president is conditioning the next generation of blacks to do the same.

But this is a dodge. Those legacies are not holding down blacks half as much as the legacy of efforts to help them “overcome.” The left’s sentimental support has turned underprivileged blacks into playthings for liberal intellectuals and politicians who care more about clearing their conscience or winning votes than advocating behaviors and attitudes that have allowed other groups to get ahead. Meanwhile, the civil rights movement of King has become an industry that does little more than monetize white guilt. King and his contemporaries demanded black self-improvement despite the abundant and overt racism of his day. King’s successors, living in an era when public policy bends over backward to accommodate blacks, nevertheless insist that blacks cannot be held responsible for their plight so long as someone somewhere in white America is still using the n-word.”

Or thinking about the past puts you in the realm of cognitive dissonance that challenges your tiny conservative myopic viewpoint.

How come African Americans receive harsher sentences and punishments for the same marijuana crimes that whites commit?

That's fine that he feels that way, but I disagree.

Minorities have been put at such a disadvantage that sometimes the only way to help is to make programs.

Hell, we still got people discriminating and not even looking at resumes just because somebody's first name is deemed "ghetto" or ethnic.

Don't speak of Minorities when you mean Blacks. The Hispanic community has the same disadvantages and they currently are leading our economy and Nation in the creation of new small businesses the new jobs they create. What gives?

Hispanics still have issues. Not as much as blacks, maybe. But they still do.

On top of that, Hispanics look a lot like whites.

Have you ever been to Puerto Rico? They range fro, black to blonde hair blue eye. You wouldn't be able to tell unless they tell you.

My family in NY routinely talks about marking white on applications so that they get a better shot.

Well I just can't get my head around your assertion that because Hispanics have lighter skin the Whitie isn't holding them down. I call baloney on that one.

A wise man learns the system and then works within it until one day he has achieved enough status to change it from within. If making White gets you in, then that is the way in.

Why not? Razor said so himself that people naturally feel comfortable around people that look like them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans

Look at the chart that says population by origin.

Look how many self indentify as "white hispanic".

It means they have Hispanic origins, but hey identify as white.

Now imagine if somebody that looks at me tries to Identify as white. Id get laughed out the room.