Do you think there might be a reason that Mack wouldn't want to play here?
Look, I see the spin already. tab is going to pimp Irving and act like we won't even miss Mack. That's BS. It's just like when he pimped Gilber and we wouldn't miss Skrine and he pimped Poyer as studding out and Gipson was making the big mistake.
Do you think there might be a reason that Mack wouldn't want to play here?
Mack hasn't been himself. He has slowly started to get better, but there's no way he's worth (in terms on his level of play/execution) - the money he's getting. I like Alex a lot, but we can only really hope he opts out.
At this stage in the year, he's taken all the snaps at center. I haven't seen him do the, at some point in times, freakish things that he once did at a sort of consistent bases.
Not trying to rip the man, and I may just suck at assessing his level of play this year or perhaps this scheme, but that is how I see it.
That's fair and I won't rip you. I believe you are giving your honest evaluation.
However, I disagree. He is still playing at a very high level and we will be sorry we let him walk, if that is what happens.
Just my opinion.
Sorry to just butt into you and Swish's debate, I wasn't even following.
I do think he's playing solid, just not at the level where he got the payday he did. At this stage, I don't think there's any reason why Mack stays. What will suck is the team that is likely going to want him, will not be much better than us lol... I do hear what you're saying though!
Lord forbid we actually ever do flip this team and having something in Cleveland. Everyone on the team, even the back up kickers, will be crowned Gods LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alec, who influences Ray-ray and is his de-facto boss, hates RB/FB which was noted before the season. He looks at this from a business standpoint. Even if Ray-ray wants to get someone on the cheap, it will still be flagged for JH to look at during the taddle-tail sessions.
From where in the hell do you get these extraterrestrial ideas and opinions?
Do you think there might be a reason that Mack wouldn't want to play here?
Look, I see the spin already. tab is going to pimp Irving and act like we won't even miss Mack. That's BS. It's just like when he pimped Gilber and we wouldn't miss Skrine and he pimped Poyer as studding out and Gipson was making the big mistake.
That's fair and I won't rip you. I believe you are giving your honest evaluation.
However, I disagree. He is still playing at a very high level and we will be sorry we let him walk, if that is what happens.
Just my opinion.
We don't have a choice in the matter. If he wants to leave, he'll leave.
I too think he took a step back this year and it's most likely because he is still trying to get over his injury. He was still better than about half the centers in the league this year, but not in the top 3 like before. He should be back to himself with another offseason to heal up.
I think what you're saying is part of it. I think another part of the difference is that we've strayed from the ZBS that Shanny had in place. It fit all of our linemen very well.
Still, the OL is doing well as is Mack. We'll see an issue now and then but it's not enough to garner the quantity of negative attention he's been getting on here.
OMG. We are still zone blocking. We are still a zone blocking team. Everything you see in the game is zone blocking. We aren't straight line blocking. We are zone blocking. We are zone blocking this year. And just to repeat, we are zone blocking this year.
ZB doesn't fit him any better and he was fine in straight line blocking 2 years ago. He is good enough to do both systems just fine.
Zone blocking is probably a better fit for Bitonio, but he is probably the only one. Schwartz and Greco are prob better for straight line blocking and Thomas can do either.
You are only telling part of the story. Yes, we are still using a ZBS, but we have incorporated more man blocking this year, especially in the running game.
We are still ZBS 95% of the time and blaming the blocking system for Mack's decline is kinda pointless, especially since he only played in it for half the season last year vs 5 seasons and 2 Pro Bowls of straight line blocking.
Yeah I get it, we aren't running nearly as well in Flip's system vs Kyle's, but it has nothing to do with Mack's drop off in play this year. Maybe it is his injury and he certainly isn't playing horrible, but whatever, it is on Mack not the system.
I have been looking for tape where we are actually straight line blocking just to see how those plays look and I can't find any.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You are only telling part of the story. Yes, we are still using a ZBS, but we have incorporated more man blocking this year, especially in the running game.
Since pass blocking is the same in both systems the difference is only going to be in the running game.
I think your original debate was with me as I'm the one who brought up the ZBS. But you clicked on the "quick reply" which responded to the OP.
What I maintain is that the ZBS worked better for our OL as a whole, not singling Mack out. When the whole line struggles in the run game, and that's where the difference lies in the blocking, hence, we are not successful running the ball.
The whole line has issues with that, Mack included as he's a part of it.
I understand too that we lack quality blocking by our midget WRs, our TEs and our FB so it's not all on the OL.
I don't know enough about the intricacies of one man's ZBS as compared to another's. Perhaps there are differences in scheme. As I said, I don't know.
What I do know is early last season we ran the ball at will with the same running backs. This year, after much failure, we released West but replace him with Duke which is and should have been an upgrade. Still, we can no longer run the ball.
I also believe the OC has to be committed to running the ball to have success and Flip has not been, (as opposed to Shanny). So maybe some of the issue lies in that.
I also believe the OC has to be committed to running the ball to have success and Flip has not been, (as opposed to Shanny). So maybe some of the issue lies in that.
I think Flip is caught between a rock and a hard place with "committing to the run". If he does commit to the run, it's going to put the QB in third and long every single time. There'll be even more three and outs than we have now.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the scheme. Part of it is teams know that McCown and Manziel cannot beat you with their arms. So they sell out for the run. On the oft chance that McCown or Manziel make a play, they'll live with it because they can't do it consistently. That's why Pitt shot the gaps every single play. They brought more guys than we could block and were willing to live with the consequences. Because the Browns offer no consequences.
Flip has to be a little smarter as well. I would've thrown a screen every single play against Pitt until they stopped teeing off. So some of this is on Flip, but until our QB makes teams pay nothing will change. The tape is out there. The book is out on our O.
It likely won't change this year and it likely won't change until we get a new staff.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I also believe the OC has to be committed to running the ball to have success and Flip has not been, (as opposed to Shanny). So maybe some of the issue lies in that.
I also believe the OC has to be committed to running the ball to have success and Flip has not been, (as opposed to Shanny). So maybe some of the issue lies in that.
I think Flip is caught between a rock and a hard place with "committing to the run". If he does commit to the run, it's going to put the QB in third and long every single time. There'll be even more three and outs than we have now.
Part of it is teams know that McCown and Manziel cannot beat you with their arms.
Second part first: They have both put up big passing numbers so I don't think you can say they can't beat you with their arms. Plus, McCown puts up points. With him we get beat 30-24. With Johnny, for now, we get beat 30-9. Either way we get beat and either way we put up 300+ passing yards.
As far as too many 3rd and longs due to trying to run, well, we need to get better running. Even "better" would be something since we are below suckage at it. How does a team run for less than 20 yards in a game?! Nobody does that. Solve that Flip.
Yeah I get it, we aren't running nearly as well in Flip's system vs Kyle's, but it has nothing to do with Mack's drop off in play this year. Maybe it is his injury and he certainly isn't playing horrible, but whatever, it is on Mack not the system.
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't blame Mack's drop off because we aren't running a ZBS.
I simply corrected your false claim that we only run a ZBS.
Yeah I get it, we aren't running nearly as well in Flip's system vs Kyle's, but it has nothing to do with Mack's drop off in play this year. Maybe it is his injury and he certainly isn't playing horrible, but whatever, it is on Mack not the system.
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't blame Mack's drop off because we aren't running a ZBS.
I simply corrected your false claim that we only run a ZBS.
That happens when you jump into conversations without reading everything first.
We are a ZBS system, your pole vaulters are calling you.
But, I do know enough about the first two and I am not going to allow you to deceive posters by making assertions that sound good but are false.
Show me tape of just one straight line blocking play this year. I'll admit that we have run some, but not much and not enough to find any tape. Believe me I've looked for tape it's not out there.
There is one guy stretching the truth here and I believe it's the same guy that tried to argue that Mitchell Schwartz is more suited to a Zone Blocking system.
If you'd stick to football, you'd be cool. But man, you have an ego that doesn't quit. Plus, the way you post is exactly what you rail against about others. I'm not calling you dense, but geez, if you can't see it, God help you.
Barnie, Flip has said that he is employing man blocking. I am not going to look it up, but you like to read and you can find it if you want.
You are a good researcher. I respect that. You offer good points. But man, when you are wrong.............just admit it. We run a combination of both blocking schemes.
As an olive branch.......I'm wrong all the time. I thought that Shelton would be a great pick. I was wrong.
I thought that McCown would suck eggs this year. I was wrong.
I thought that Haslam was going to be a great owner. I was wrong.
There are many more examples. The world didn't end because I admitted that I was wrong. I really don't give a rat's butt what other posters think about me. I state what I state and they can like it or not. I do not feel the need to "prove" myself to them. Perhaps you should consider that instead of continuing to argue points in which you are clearly wrong.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/10342/john-defilippo Browns OC John DeFilippo plans to run a zone-blocking scheme. The Browns are keeping the majority of ex-OC Kyle Shanahan’s concepts in place. Cleveland is expected to maintain a heavy emphasis on the run after finishing sixth in rushing attempts last year. Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell are competing for early-down work behind one of the top offensive lines and would have high upside value if one emerges as the clear-cut starter. Rookie Duke Johnson is in the mix for a passing-down role. Jun 3 - 6:35 PM
I looked it up for you, but more importantly if you WATCH A GAME, what you see is zone blocking.
You claim to know a lot about the system, but don't seem to recognize it. I've posted plays here before. Every one of those plays was a zone blocking play. Did you see any straight line blocking in any of those?
man, thats an ugly ZBS then. doesn't look anything like shanny's last year. i know there's variations but damn.
cause what i'm seeing is a ton of man on man blocking.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I already said that we are running a ZBS. Scroll back up and you will find it if you are patient enough.
Where I disagreed w/you is when I said we are also incorporating man blocking schemes. Scroll back up and you will find that, too.
I kinda doubt you know how to discern tape. I think you know how to read articles. That's cool, but please, stop acting like you really know the game. You can read.
We are employing both. Flip has been quoted as saying the same thing. Keep researching, Barnie.
But, don't ever admit you are wrong. That would be so ..........horrific.
But, I do know enough about the first two and I am not going to allow you to deceive posters by making assertions that sound good but are false.
Show me tape of just one straight line blocking play this year. I'll admit that we have run some, but not much and not enough to find any tape. Believe me I've looked for tape it's not out there.
There is one guy stretching the truth here and I believe it's the same guy that tried to argue that Mitchell Schwartz is more suited to a Zone Blocking system.
Any ideas who I'm talking about coach?
Seems I did too. If you are the one accusing me of making things up, you know exactly what to do. Find some tape on some straight line blocking plays and prove me wrong.
I am very interested on how you grade each lineman's blocking styles. A man of your obvious football knowledge.
You are the guy not getting away with it this time.
I let you hide a couple of days the last time, but you aren't getting away from this.
We both know what Flip said at the beginning of the season, and we both watch games too. We both see the blocking on the field. I've posted some tape already.
I'll make it easy here is a video by Nate Zegura about the run blocking.
You just point out the man blocking. You don't have to grade anything since it isn't all-22 tape.
Or you could always just admit that you don't know how if that is easier for you.
If you want, you can post any all-22 tape that you want and I'll explain the blocking scheme and grade out the lineman for you to be fair.
Last year we ran an OUTSIDE ZONE BLOCKING SCHEME. This year we run a ZONE BLOCKING SCHEME - mostly INSIDE.
What is the difference.
OZBS...is predictated on a Lateral stretch of the entire OL...every play must take a Quick RB move for the outside (corner) with this we widen the gaps as the D is spread out laterally and the RB chooses his cut back from those gaps.
ZBS Inside...is more AREA designated blocks with a traditional double to the Onside DE or OLB goes by AREA not man. and a Double on the Back side DT. There is more unified movement with Scoop Steps but not to the degree of the OZBS... Also identifying the Mike is more important in the Flip Scheme than was the Shanny scheme.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
If I were Vers I wouldn't dignify your nonsense with a response. You have no idea who he is or what he knows about football. Yet you're talking to him like he's some dolt who doesn't know the difference between a tackle and a guard.
If I were Vers I wouldn't dignify your nonsense with a response. You have no idea who he is or what he knows about football. Yet you're talking to him like he's some dolt who doesn't know the difference between a tackle and a guard.
I think I have a pretty good idea about what he knows about football. His posts kinda give that away.
If he can dignify his baseless attacks on my posts then he should be able to back that up with a little proof that he knows what he is talking about in this case.
He's the one saying that my post is wrong. I'm just asking him to demonstrate his ability to evaluate that.
