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Johnny Manziel's benching could spell the end of him with Browns and 4 other takeaways: Mary Kay Cabot Link BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine made the bold move of demoting Johnny Manziel from starting quarterback to third-stringer on Tuesday after his partying video from Friday night surfaced on Monday, and it could signal the beginning of the end for Manziel in Cleveland. The move comes one week after Pettine named Manziel the starter for the final six games of the season, saying "it's his team now" and "he's got his shot.'' It also comes seven days after Manziel promised Pettine he wouldn't do anything to be an "embarrassment to the organization'' during the bye week. Instead, Manziel, who spent 10 weeks in an addiction treatment center in the offseason, was captured waving around a bottle of champagne and looking like he was feeling no pain in the video, which he initially tried to pass off as old. Josh McCown is the starter for the rest of the season, and Austin Davis is his backup. Manziel, who's 1-4 as a Brown, may never get another chance to improve on that mark. Here are 5 takeaways from the move: 1. It could be over for Manziel in a Browns uniform The demotion means that the Browns might not have an opportunity to evaluate Manziel as their quarterback of the future. The whole point of naming him the starter for the final six games was to see if he could be their man heading into next year. Now, he might not play again this season, and they'll likely head into the offseason prepared to draft another quarterback. They'll probably have a top five pick, and a chance to select one of the top prospects such as Paxton Lynch of Memphis, Jared Goff of Californa, or Connor Cook of Michigan State. The latest incident means the Browns may have reached the end of their rope with Manziel and are ready to sever ties. I don't think they'll cut him before the end of the season, but they'll probably part ways sometime in the offseason. If Manziel can get himself together off-the-field, a team might be willing to surrender a draft pick for him. But this decision tells me the Browns don't trust him and probably don't think he's worth the trouble. He had one mandate: Go home for the bye weekend and don't mess up. He promised he wouldn't. And then he did. He can't seem to help himself. I believe they're ready to move on and if they ever get anything out of him, it will be a bonus. 2. Manziel is obviously off track in his aftercare program I've been writing this since Manziel admitted to day-drinking before his roadway incident Oct. 12: He needs more rehab, whether inpatient or outpatient. If I were him, I'd call the highly-respected folks at the Caron addiction treatment center and let the professionals help him decide which one is best. It's common knowledge that the chance of relapse is highest in the first year out of treatment. Now would be the perfect time to do it, because he's No. 3 on the depth chart and the Browns don't need him right now. But no one can force him. Rehab doesn't usually work unless a person has reached his own bottom. I doubt Manziel is there yet. But there's no chemical-abuse counselor in the world who will tell you that drinking in the months after treatment is a good idea -- regardless of what his addiction was. Even his good friend and former coach Julius Scott told USA Today Sports recently that Manziel ought to have his head examined if he thinks having a few is OK. Critics will argue that 22-year-olds drink, that it's legal and that Manziel is just having a good time. If he hadn't been through 70 days of inpatient rehab, I'd agree. But his game has changed and he must too if he hopes to make it in the NFL. Should the Cleveland Browns cut Johnny Manziel? Cleveland.com reporters weigh in After a video of Johnny Manziel partying led to the quarterback being demoted to third-string, we asked reporters to answer the question on everyone's minds. 3. Who wanted Manziel in the first place? Manziel was drafted during a time of major upheaval in the organization, and we may never know the full story on why they not only took him in the first round, but traded up from No. 26 to No. 22 to get him. But here are some things I do know: when Joe Banner was fired, he was poised to draft Teddy Bridgewater. He wanted no part of Manziel, which may have contributed to his ouster. I've been told that Farmer was high on Bridgewater as well, but at some point, he switched to Manziel. Did he do this to please Jimmy Haslam, who was supposedly a huge Manziel fan? Maybe so, but Farmer insists it was his decision to draft the former Heisman Trophy winner, who had worn out his welcome at Texas A&M. There were other factors at play. I was told that Kyle Shanahan, the offensive coordinator at the time, was not sold either on Bridgewater. Was Farmer supposed to ignore that and draft a quarterback Shanahan didn't want? And they all whiffed on Derek Carr, who's currently seventh in the NFL with a 99.4 rating. The fact is, Jimmy Haslam thrust Farmer into a situation he was wasn't ready for just weeks before free agency and the draft: a boatload of cash -- $10 million -- to spend in the market and two first-round picks. That's why the Browns ended up with No. 8 Justin Gilbert, who's hurtling toward Bustville, and Manziel, who could be gone soon too. And Farmer, who was being pulled in too many directions, will probably take the fall for both of them. Question is, do the Browns have anyone in the building who can evaluate the quarterbacks in this draft? 4. Manziel never receives consequences It seems to me like Manziel rarely has to pay the price for his missteps. If there are never any consequences, he'll never change. That's why the Browns did the right thing by demoting him to No. 3. No. 2 wouldn't have hurt enough. I don't even know if No. 3 will get his attention. But in the short time I've been covering him, he's gotten in a fight with a fan at his old apartment building downtown, he's hurled a water bottle at a fan at a golf tournament, he's sped down the berm of Interstate 90 with alcohol in his system, he's been accused by his girlfriend of hitting her -- and he's never suspended or charged with anything. To be fair, the NFL conducted a thorough investigation into Crowley's claims and cleared Manziel of harming her. But in general, it seems as though Manziel isn't held accountable enough for his actions, and therefore, he's not motivated to change. Even the Browns were too effusive in their praise of Manziel after the Oct. 12 incident -- despite his admission of day-drinking just months out of rehab. Letting Manziel off the hook too easily isn't helping him. 5. The Browns need to find yet another QB of the future Maybe he's in this draft and maybe he's not. Maybe it's Manziel, but they can't count on that. They have to look long and hard at drafting a quarterback with their top pick, but only if he's there. They can't force it. They have to make sure they have the right people making this decision, and if not, they need to hire a consultant or someone who can help them get it right. Fortunately for the Browns, McCown, 36, is under contract for two more years and has a lot of good football left in him. If they surround him with talent -- particularly some big, tall, accomplished receivers -- he can win games. They don't need to rush it. They should also scour other rosters and the free-agent market. They have Austin Davis wrapped up for two more years and they have Connor Shaw coming back off thumb surgery next season. But they need to make it their mission over the next two years to find a championship-caliber quarterback or they're never going anywhere
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Some bogus unimportant ultimatum that is a desperate show-of-power attempt by someone who is in over their head I disagree - completely, vehemently, wholeheartedly. I'm going to speak from personal experience and knowledge here... I am a recovering alcoholic. I knew it in my bones as early as age 17, yet I never got sober until I was 35. In all of those years in between there were attempts to clean up - and subsequent relapses. I'm 9-1/2 years sober right now, and I know that there are several members of this site that have double and maybe even triple the number of years sobriety that I have that can validate what I'm saying here: On recovery: everyone wants to argue what his substance might or might not be, but what nobody is realizing is that IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's all the SAME THING. If you're a coke addict and you keep on drinking, you are NOT clean. All you've done is substitute your drug of choice. If you want to know more on that, ask me - or ask Google, there is a LOT out there on this topic. I just had to point that out, and beyond that, it's all moot (or 'moo', if you think it matters as much as a cow's opinion) for the rest of this. To me, looking from the perspective of my experiences and what I'm seeing/reading about what has gone on with this kid, it is pretty darn clear that he's got a real, bonafide problem, and it's better than even odds that it is alcohol based upon the articles above. I would at this point go so far as to call him an alcoholic, and what we are witnessing from him right now is something I've been through a few times myself and that is the progressive slide backwards from recovery to a full-blown relapse. What I'm seeing Pett & Company doing is trying to freaking help the kid by giving him a wake up call. The door is still open for him to return to play if he cleans his act up - and it is slammed shut if he doesn't. It is Manziel's Choice. I don't accept a key assumption that you have made in this statement. The coach isn't demoting him because he had alcohol. He is demoting him because he was drinking in public and it showed up on social media. If he got wasted at his own house, this wouldn't be an issue even if Pettine knew about it.
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So now what he he gets the who cares attitude, how does that help him? That's up to him, nobody else. He can either choose the "who cares" attitude, or he can choose the "damn, I gotta get myself right & squared away" attitude. Nobody chooses that for him. Others merely choose how they react to what he does, and he chooses how he reacts to them. The ball is in his court. I just hope he gets to shine somewhere else...this loser dysfunctional inept and incompetent franchise doesn't deserve him and would only continue to beat him down and make him the whipping boy...have fun watching the same old same old for the next twenty years...I've been a fan for over 50 years but unless some drastic changes in the organization (including owner) are made, I'm done...its an embarrassment to watch them make it up as they go along and be wrong EVERY TIME
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Perhaps... and given how the NFL operates, that's probably a fairly safe assumption in most every case, but I'll just simply disagree with you on it.
If the kid isn't flying right, he isn't going to be able to do anything else right. It's about learning that actions have consequences.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So now what he he gets the who cares attitude, how does that help him? That's up to him, nobody else. He can either choose the "who cares" attitude, or he can choose the "damn, I gotta get myself right & squared away" attitude. Nobody chooses that for him. Others merely choose how they react to what he does, and he chooses how he reacts to them. The ball is in his court. I just hope he gets to shine somewhere else...this loser dysfunctional inept and incompetent franchise doesn't deserve him and would only continue to beat him down and make him the whipping boy...have fun watching the same old same old for the next twenty years...I've been a fan for over 50 years but unless some drastic changes in the organization (including owner) are made, I'm done...its an embarrassment to watch them make it up as they go along and be wrong EVERY TIME The hiring of Lombardi, the firing of chud and now all of this crap, I am close to that myself. I love the game of football but I have gotten to where the only time I enjoy a game is when it isnt the Browns playing. Bengals Cards game, was a fantastic game loved it. I really see this entire organization as a mockery of the sport I love. When you allow social media to influence coaching decisions, you have zero chance of ever being successful.
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Johnny Manziel's benching could spell the end of him with Browns and 4 other takeaways: Mary Kay Cabot Link BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine made the bold move of demoting Johnny Manziel from starting quarterback to third-stringer on Tuesday after his partying video from Friday night surfaced on Monday, and it could signal the beginning of the end for Manziel in Cleveland. The move comes one week after Pettine named Manziel the starter for the final six games of the season, saying "it's his team now" and "he's got his shot.'' It also comes seven days after Manziel promised Pettine he wouldn't do anything to be an "embarrassment to the organization'' during the bye week. Instead, Manziel, who spent 10 weeks in an addiction treatment center in the offseason, was captured waving around a bottle of champagne and looking like he was feeling no pain in the video, which he initially tried to pass off as old. Josh McCown is the starter for the rest of the season, and Austin Davis is his backup. Manziel, who's 1-4 as a Brown, may never get another chance to improve on that mark. Here are 5 takeaways from the move: 1. It could be over for Manziel in a Browns uniform The demotion means that the Browns might not have an opportunity to evaluate Manziel as their quarterback of the future. The whole point of naming him the starter for the final six games was to see if he could be their man heading into next year. Now, he might not play again this season, and they'll likely head into the offseason prepared to draft another quarterback. They'll probably have a top five pick, and a chance to select one of the top prospects such as Paxton Lynch of Memphis, Jared Goff of Californa, or Connor Cook of Michigan State. The latest incident means the Browns may have reached the end of their rope with Manziel and are ready to sever ties. I don't think they'll cut him before the end of the season, but they'll probably part ways sometime in the offseason. If Manziel can get himself together off-the-field, a team might be willing to surrender a draft pick for him. But this decision tells me the Browns don't trust him and probably don't think he's worth the trouble. He had one mandate: Go home for the bye weekend and don't mess up. He promised he wouldn't. And then he did. He can't seem to help himself. I believe they're ready to move on and if they ever get anything out of him, it will be a bonus. 2. Manziel is obviously off track in his aftercare program I've been writing this since Manziel admitted to day-drinking before his roadway incident Oct. 12: He needs more rehab, whether inpatient or outpatient. If I were him, I'd call the highly-respected folks at the Caron addiction treatment center and let the professionals help him decide which one is best. It's common knowledge that the chance of relapse is highest in the first year out of treatment. Now would be the perfect time to do it, because he's No. 3 on the depth chart and the Browns don't need him right now. But no one can force him. Rehab doesn't usually work unless a person has reached his own bottom. I doubt Manziel is there yet. But there's no chemical-abuse counselor in the world who will tell you that drinking in the months after treatment is a good idea -- regardless of what his addiction was. Even his good friend and former coach Julius Scott told USA Today Sports recently that Manziel ought to have his head examined if he thinks having a few is OK. Critics will argue that 22-year-olds drink, that it's legal and that Manziel is just having a good time. If he hadn't been through 70 days of inpatient rehab, I'd agree. But his game has changed and he must too if he hopes to make it in the NFL. Should the Cleveland Browns cut Johnny Manziel? Cleveland.com reporters weigh in After a video of Johnny Manziel partying led to the quarterback being demoted to third-string, we asked reporters to answer the question on everyone's minds. 3. Who wanted Manziel in the first place? Manziel was drafted during a time of major upheaval in the organization, and we may never know the full story on why they not only took him in the first round, but traded up from No. 26 to No. 22 to get him. But here are some things I do know: when Joe Banner was fired, he was poised to draft Teddy Bridgewater. He wanted no part of Manziel, which may have contributed to his ouster. I've been told that Farmer was high on Bridgewater as well, but at some point, he switched to Manziel. Did he do this to please Jimmy Haslam, who was supposedly a huge Manziel fan? Maybe so, but Farmer insists it was his decision to draft the former Heisman Trophy winner, who had worn out his welcome at Texas A&M. There were other factors at play. I was told that Kyle Shanahan, the offensive coordinator at the time, was not sold either on Bridgewater. Was Farmer supposed to ignore that and draft a quarterback Shanahan didn't want? And they all whiffed on Derek Carr, who's currently seventh in the NFL with a 99.4 rating. The fact is, Jimmy Haslam thrust Farmer into a situation he was wasn't ready for just weeks before free agency and the draft: a boatload of cash -- $10 million -- to spend in the market and two first-round picks. That's why the Browns ended up with No. 8 Justin Gilbert, who's hurtling toward Bustville, and Manziel, who could be gone soon too. And Farmer, who was being pulled in too many directions, will probably take the fall for both of them. Question is, do the Browns have anyone in the building who can evaluate the quarterbacks in this draft? 4. Manziel never receives consequences It seems to me like Manziel rarely has to pay the price for his missteps. If there are never any consequences, he'll never change. That's why the Browns did the right thing by demoting him to No. 3. No. 2 wouldn't have hurt enough. I don't even know if No. 3 will get his attention. But in the short time I've been covering him, he's gotten in a fight with a fan at his old apartment building downtown, he's hurled a water bottle at a fan at a golf tournament, he's sped down the berm of Interstate 90 with alcohol in his system, he's been accused by his girlfriend of hitting her -- and he's never suspended or charged with anything. To be fair, the NFL conducted a thorough investigation into Crowley's claims and cleared Manziel of harming her. But in general, it seems as though Manziel isn't held accountable enough for his actions, and therefore, he's not motivated to change. Even the Browns were too effusive in their praise of Manziel after the Oct. 12 incident -- despite his admission of day-drinking just months out of rehab. Letting Manziel off the hook too easily isn't helping him. 5. The Browns need to find yet another QB of the future Maybe he's in this draft and maybe he's not. Maybe it's Manziel, but they can't count on that. They have to look long and hard at drafting a quarterback with their top pick, but only if he's there. They can't force it. They have to make sure they have the right people making this decision, and if not, they need to hire a consultant or someone who can help them get it right. Fortunately for the Browns, McCown, 36, is under contract for two more years and has a lot of good football left in him. If they surround him with talent -- particularly some big, tall, accomplished receivers -- he can win games. They don't need to rush it. They should also scour other rosters and the free-agent market. They have Austin Davis wrapped up for two more years and they have Connor Shaw coming back off thumb surgery next season. But they need to make it their mission over the next two years to find a championship-caliber quarterback or they're never going anywhere blah blah blah same old same old every year with this franchise and you think anything's going to change? if you do ive got some oceanfront property...you know the rest
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Some bogus unimportant ultimatum that is a desperate show-of-power attempt by someone who is in over their head I disagree - completely, vehemently, wholeheartedly. I'm going to speak from personal experience and knowledge here... I am a recovering alcoholic. I knew it in my bones as early as age 17, yet I never got sober until I was 35. In all of those years in between there were attempts to clean up - and subsequent relapses. I'm 9-1/2 years sober right now, and I know that there are several members of this site that have double and maybe even triple the number of years sobriety that I have that can validate what I'm saying here: On recovery: everyone wants to argue what his substance might or might not be, but what nobody is realizing is that IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's all the SAME THING. If you're a coke addict and you keep on drinking, you are NOT clean. All you've done is substitute your drug of choice. If you want to know more on that, ask me - or ask Google, there is a LOT out there on this topic. I just had to point that out, and beyond that, it's all moot (or 'moo', if you think it matters as much as a cow's opinion) for the rest of this. To me, looking from the perspective of my experiences and what I'm seeing/reading about what has gone on with this kid, it is pretty darn clear that he's got a real, bonafide problem, and it's better than even odds that it is alcohol based upon the articles above. I would at this point go so far as to call him an alcoholic, and what we are witnessing from him right now is something I've been through a few times myself and that is the progressive slide backwards from recovery to a full-blown relapse. What I'm seeing Pett & Company doing is trying to freaking help the kid by giving him a wake up call. The door is still open for him to return to play if he cleans his act up - and it is slammed shut if he doesn't. It is Manziel's Choice. Good job, Purple.  It'll be 20 years clean & sober for me this January. I think the door is pretty much shut - or is in the process of being shut - pretty much for Johnny playing for us now, all due to alcohol. It's too bad, I still would have loved to see him play these last few games, but he blew it by continuing to drink and Pettine said enough is enough.That's the way the cookie crumbles in the Factory of Sadness/Parade of Disaster here in Cleveland.
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I don't have the experience you do Purp, but what you say sounds like a solid thought to me.
There was a post on here somewhere (on this thread) that made me think that they are trying to do exactly as you say.
Shock Treatment or maybe it's a "scared straight" Moment.
I guess we'll see. Or it could have the opposite effect, he comes in works hard improves in all aspects stays pretty much out of the bad media earns a starting role. So on bye week with a little down time has some fun with friends nothing crazy no harm to anyone no arrests...BOOM...lose your starting role. So now what he he gets the who cares attitude, how does that help him? Ain't buying it. I'm guessing he knew what the parameters were and he ignored them. It was his choice, he made it. Now he's gotta live with his stupidity.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Some bogus unimportant ultimatum that is a desperate show-of-power attempt by someone who is in over their head I disagree - completely, vehemently, wholeheartedly. I'm going to speak from personal experience and knowledge here... I am a recovering alcoholic. I knew it in my bones as early as age 17, yet I never got sober until I was 35. In all of those years in between there were attempts to clean up - and subsequent relapses. I'm 9-1/2 years sober right now, and I know that there are several members of this site that have double and maybe even triple the number of years sobriety that I have that can validate what I'm saying here: On recovery: everyone wants to argue what his substance might or might not be, but what nobody is realizing is that IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's all the SAME THING. If you're a coke addict and you keep on drinking, you are NOT clean. All you've done is substitute your drug of choice. If you want to know more on that, ask me - or ask Google, there is a LOT out there on this topic. I just had to point that out, and beyond that, it's all moot (or 'moo', if you think it matters as much as a cow's opinion) for the rest of this. To me, looking from the perspective of my experiences and what I'm seeing/reading about what has gone on with this kid, it is pretty darn clear that he's got a real, bonafide problem, and it's better than even odds that it is alcohol based upon the articles above. I would at this point go so far as to call him an alcoholic, and what we are witnessing from him right now is something I've been through a few times myself and that is the progressive slide backwards from recovery to a full-blown relapse. What I'm seeing Pett & Company doing is trying to freaking help the kid by giving him a wake up call. The door is still open for him to return to play if he cleans his act up - and it is slammed shut if he doesn't. It is Manziel's Choice. Good job, Purple. It'll be 20 years clean & sober for me this January. I think the door is pretty much shut - or is in the process of being shut - pretty much for Johnny playing for us now, all due to alcohol. It's too bad, I still would have loved to see him play these last few games, but he blew it by continuing to drink and Pettine said enough is enough.That's the way the cookie crumbles in the Factory of Sadness/Parade of Disaster here in Cleveland. nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian
Last edited by ThomasE; 11/25/15 02:47 PM.
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Let me see if I got this right maybe I'm missing something.
The Browns draft Johnny Manziel 22nd in the first round.
He reports to camp with the media swirling. He makes statements to the effect that he is going to live his life as he sees fit.
The team holds OTA's, training camp, pre-season games and then the regular season starts.
Manziel does next to nothing to prepare himself to be able to run the offense. When he gets the opportunity his lack of preparation is clearly evident. His teammates know he is unprepared.
Hoyer leaves. The door once again is open for Manziel to prove he is ready.
Manziel enters rehab.
His first season is wasted and now his future is clouded.
The 2015 season begins and the Browns bring in McCown. McCown is ok with being Manziel's mentor and is willing to help the team in any way that management asks.
Manziel after rehab declares he is ready willing able to help the team.
McCown is named the starter because Pettine feels he gives the team the best chance to win. Players like Joe Thomas support the decision.
McCown plays well but gets hurt. Manziel plays and shows improvement.
Management has paid and supported Manziel. They have made it clear to him what the organization expects from him regarding his profile and the attention he draws.
McCown goes back to the starters role.
Manziel is involved in an incident with his girlfriend and admits to drinking. The team and the NFL looks into it. Nothing happens.
Manziel is named the starter for the rest of the season going into the bye week. A chance to prove that he can be an NFL starter. He is reminded of his responsibility as the quarterback of the team.
He takes off for some R&R. He then gets caught on film drinking and partying. Pettine benches him.
So Pettine is the villain?
More than halfway through his second season and Manziel still has not gotten the message.
Franchise quarterback? Are you kidding me. Team leader, face of the franchise?
Manziel has no concept of what a franchise quarterback means. He is clueless to what personal responsibility means.
The team has bent over backwards supporting him while he attempted to get his life together. Then after being named the starter for the remainder of the season he displays his poor judgement and reverts to his prior behavior.
"But ah gee he was just drinking and having fun on his time off." "He is just like every other 22 year old guy".
Except he was drafted in the first round of the NFL draft. Paid a lot of money and expected to be the starting quarterback of an NFL team.
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Yeah, I was really on the fence about Manziel's demotion. For a team so devoid of talent, and with such a history of failure at the most important position to dig their heals in over bye week partying was hard for me to understand...
...up until I read the timeline article of Manziel since he was drafted. The list of his screwups was how many PAGES long? The guy was a project QB coming into the league that valued partying over improving his game. He's talked a big game about squaring himself away socially only to turn around and do the opposite time and time again. The guy wasn't at all prepared for that terrible Cinci game last year, showing what a joke his attitude and work ethic was. He got into that fight at his apartment, but the issue was he was out super late before the team flight to a game. The Baltimore meeting/therapy debacle where Gordon was also involved...
This benching is not about any one event. It's an "enough is enough" / "straw that broke the camel's back" thing. Manziel had a history of bad decisions going back to high school, established that that was still an issue his rookie year, and showed it's still a major issue this year.
Now that I think I understand all of this, I can step back and say that this is on Johnny, and well-deserved. It was only a matter of time due to his refusal to change. He also didn't earn himself a longer leash with his performance on the field. Right or wrong, guys that perform tend to get away with this stuff. Johnny couldn't beat out the 2 schlubs he competed against in TCs, and failed more than he suffered in the games he did play in up until now.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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soooo...take the day off for Goff? Back Off for Goff is still better. I am open to other suggestions. Don't Move an Inch for Lynch is still my best work though. I love Don't Move an Inch for Lynch. LOL. It ties into our running game.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It's about learning that actions have consequences. Not to be argumentative, but how does this reaction play into his action? If Johnny was to be the starter and gave us the best chance to win, the team is then owing the consequence...JM still get's paid (as far as we know), he sits and who knows - maybe he just wants to be traded next year. How is this exactly hurting Johnny? Actually, him not playing for the rest of the year may actually help him if we trade him next year as all the 'experts on TV' are saying he has shown growth on the field. That makes him viable as a 2-year backup for someone else. I wonder if Josh was in concussion protocol this week [inactive for Monday] and Davis as listed as #2, would the scenario play out this way with JM being benched or is a part of this b/c Josh CAN play and has played fairly well. The hierarchy for an NFL should be Organization over team, team over player, or so I would think. Sitting Johnny at 2-8 ... not 100% sure just how that is too bad of a punishment to get his life together - IMHO. Punish him on the field in practice...I don't know...just me thinking out loud from he stands..
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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I'll also add that Pettine is also not blameless, and part of the fallout will land on him. He's the HC, and while he's not a babysitter, he does bear some of the responsibility of this whole thing reaching this point.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian
Do us all a favor and go root for Buffalo. Seriously. You're obviously a much bigger "fan" of Johnny Bench than you are of the Browns anyway. You can take highlights of JFF from A&M and the box of tissues to your mom's basement with you while you're at it. *shakes head*
Last edited by GraffZ06; 11/25/15 03:18 PM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian
Do us all a favor and go root for Buffalo. Seriously. You're obviously a much bigger "fan" of Johnny Bench than you are of the Browns anyway. You can take highlights of JFF from A&M and the box of tissues to your mom's basement with you while you're at it. *shakes head* and you know all this how? as I said, judgmental and self righteous...i'll add repressive if you have a dictionary near by which I can tell you dont
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nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian
Do us all a favor and go root for Buffalo. Seriously. You're obviously a much bigger "fan" of Johnny Bench than you are of the Browns anyway. You can take highlights of JFF from A&M and the box of tissues to your mom's basement with you while you're at it. *shakes head* Why are your responses so emotional when it comes to Manziel? That's a sign that something has become so emotional for you, that you are incapable of being objective. It's similar to BTTB calling Farmer "Text" and always accusing everyone else of being dumb. If you were a true Browns fan, you would root for Manziel's success, not against him. Yet you root against him. So I ask you ... are you a Browns fan or just a Manziel hater? And yet you ask another poster if they are a real Browns fan? Classic.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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"At this point I'm pulling for Jerry Jones to land this guy and save him from this dysfunctional franchise in which he cannot just be himself, like his team mates, and cannot ever be successful in this environment. I believe Jerry Jones, who has a certain amount of respect league-wide, will do what Mike Pettine and the Cleveland organization could not do and that is to "Pffft" the whole thing, paint Johnny as no different than anybody else, and diminish the interest in persecuting this kid. Johnny can then be home in Texas, permitted to be himself, as is everybody else, and play football."
Remember.. Jerry Jones is the guy who put babysitters on Dez Bryant almost 24/7 for several years.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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well our 1st round qbs seem to be almost decent backups by teams desperate enough to take them. I guess Manziel will make a good backup too if he ever stay sober long enough.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I believe Jerry Jones, who has a certain amount of respect league-wide 
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J/C ...... I want to think way, way,way back to ...... 8 days ago .... when Manziel said this: BEREA, Ohio -- Johnny Manziel, named the Browns' full-time starter Tuesday, promised coach Mike Pettine that he'll be a model citizen -- beginning with the bye this week. "I let him know that I'm not going to do anything that's going to be a distraction to this team or be an embarrassment to the organization,'' he said. "I'm going to get a chance to go and relax like everybody else in this locker room is. I don't think they're going to have to worry about me this week." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/cleveland_browns_johnny_manziel_im.htmlNow, I have to ask this question for all who are thinking that Pettine went overboard ...... What do you think Manziel and Pettine talked about when Johnny promised not to be a distraction or an embarrassment to the organization? Do you think that it might have had something to do with being out drunk in public? Johnny agreed with whatever Pettine and he spoke about ... and I have to think that it was about not drinking .... and then he went and did it anyway. Manziel had to know how Pettine felt about the bad media surrounding Manziel, even though he was not found to have done anything to hurt his girlfriend ... the fact that Manziel is back with a girl who is obviously a heavy drinker, when Manziel has issues in that area, had to have come up. The fact that Manziel wound up on the front page of Newspapers, and leading the sport news because of off the field problems that involved alcohol had to have come up. The Johnny goes out and get really bombed ..... twice, from reports I have heard. That is not only stupid, but it is also disrespectful towards the coach, just days after making him a promise not to do such things. I do think that Pettine has Manziel's best interests at heart. Here is what Pettine had to say about the situation: Mike Pettine won't cut Johnny Manziel: 'It's not a dead end; it's a hurdle' | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...t_story_packageBEREA, Ohio -- Mike Pettine said the Browns never considered cutting Johnny Manziel after his partying video surfaced Monday. Instead, they're hoping his demotion from starter to third string is a springboard for future success. Here are some quick highlights from Pettine's presser Wednesday: * He said Manziel's demotion to third string doesn't necessarily spell the end of him in Cleveland: "We certainly hope not. He's made progress. We told him, 'this isn't a dead end. It's a hurdle.'' * He said things could change in regard to Manziel being the third-stringer. * He said the biggest issues were trust and accountability: "He violated that trust.'' * He said Manziel knew that he was on a zero tolerance policy for the bye weekend: "I think that was made reasonably clear to him.'' * He said the position of quarterback "is always going to be held to a higher standard. You have to take the mentality that no one is going to outwork you.'' He cited the qualities of leadership and harped on trust. * He stressed "there's no personal rift between he and I. Nobody will be more proud when he does turn the corner than me.'' * He said this benching does impact the Browns ability to evaluate Manziel, "but this was too important'' to over-ride that. * He said the move was "absolutely necessary to maximize his chance for future success.'' * He added, "this is a healthy dose of adversity. Let's see how he handles it.'' * He said Manziel has "made vast improvements'' on the football field but "has a ways to go in other aspects.'' * On the front office's feeling on the issue: "We all stand together on this one.'' * He added that they're not ready to give up on Manziel and they want to see how he responds. --------------------------------------------------------- This sounds to me like Pettine does care about the kid. Face it, the easiest thing for Pettine to do would have been to overlook the whole thing, and maybe let Manziel implode. He didn't do that. I think that Manziel is heading for another trip to rehab though. (if he's smart) As Mary Kay wrote, even Manziel's former coach, the man who has been consistently in Manziel's corner, has expressed serious concern about Manziel being out drinking. I think that says something, because if anyone knows the whole story of what is going on in Manziel's like, it's him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Some bogus unimportant ultimatum that is a desperate show-of-power attempt by someone who is in over their head I disagree - completely, vehemently, wholeheartedly. I'm going to speak from personal experience and knowledge here... I am a recovering alcoholic. I knew it in my bones as early as age 17, yet I never got sober until I was 35. In all of those years in between there were attempts to clean up - and subsequent relapses. I'm 9-1/2 years sober right now, and I know that there are several members of this site that have double and maybe even triple the number of years sobriety that I have that can validate what I'm saying here: On recovery: everyone wants to argue what his substance might or might not be, but what nobody is realizing is that IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's all the SAME THING. If you're a coke addict and you keep on drinking, you are NOT clean. All you've done is substitute your drug of choice. If you want to know more on that, ask me - or ask Google, there is a LOT out there on this topic. I just had to point that out, and beyond that, it's all moot (or 'moo', if you think it matters as much as a cow's opinion) for the rest of this. To me, looking from the perspective of my experiences and what I'm seeing/reading about what has gone on with this kid, it is pretty darn clear that he's got a real, bonafide problem, and it's better than even odds that it is alcohol based upon the articles above. I would at this point go so far as to call him an alcoholic, and what we are witnessing from him right now is something I've been through a few times myself and that is the progressive slide backwards from recovery to a full-blown relapse. What I'm seeing Pett & Company doing is trying to freaking help the kid by giving him a wake up call. The door is still open for him to return to play if he cleans his act up - and it is slammed shut if he doesn't. It is Manziel's Choice. Good job, Purple. It'll be 20 years clean & sober for me this January. I think the door is pretty much shut - or is in the process of being shut - pretty much for Johnny playing for us now, all due to alcohol. It's too bad, I still would have loved to see him play these last few games, but he blew it by continuing to drink and Pettine said enough is enough.That's the way the cookie crumbles in the Factory of Sadness/Parade of Disaster here in Cleveland. nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian This statement is harsh and most of all, it's completely incorrect. Not to mention, uncalled for. My business partner is 40 years sober and he's not judgmental in the least. he's trusting, honest, hardworking. He's faced his demon and come out a better person for it. If you knew anything, you'd know what kinda of arse you make of yourself when you type out things like that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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#Browns Pettine on Manziel: "There's no personal rift between he and I. Nobody will be more proud when he does turn the corner than me''
14 retweets 9 likes
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 3h3 hours ago
#Browns Pettine said it was "too important'' to discipline Manziel, couldn't let the need to evaluate him outweigh that
8 retweets 4 likes
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 3h3 hours ago
#Browns Pettine couldn't say if the team will encourage Manziel to go back to rehab because it's a privacy issue
7 retweets 5 likes
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 3h3 hours ago
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I thought this was about football.
I am tired of hearing about Johnny's personal life from our coach
He can easily say no comment - instead it's We want what's best for Johnny
We drafted him in the first round
PLAY HIM
Let him fall on his face and quit - let him embarrass himself in a public way
We have 6 games left - let's get it over with.
I am pleased by pets comments today (Hurdle) - maybe he can play the last 5
I prefer a gunslinger (even the midget version) so I was rooting for the kid - but at this point I don't want to hear his name out of coach's mouth - he needs to be focused on the game and stop feeding this.
I do like that pet has been the face of this - I don't know if the rest of the orgs (including players) cooperation has been coordinated or not - but this conversation should be squashed today.
And yes our front office and owner should be lobbying to play the kid - they are tied to his arrival and should be the first to push for his departure if he can't play QB for the Cleveland Browns. If he doesn't have tape after two years - they have failed.
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nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian
That didn't come off as judgmental or self-righteous.  You forgot to add people that drive minivans and Barry Manilow fans.
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"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach " Cool Hand Luke did you just put that up for johnny?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c: Brian Hartline on the fan perception of Johnny Manziel's demotion vs. the in-house feeling (Video) https://twitter.com/H_Grove/status/669614919566950400
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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The more I think about this situation, the more I like what Pettine did.
I know some feel like the stipulation he made with JM is dumb and perhaps that is true. The issue is Johnny clearly paid no mind to the coaches and did what he wanted AFTER the Browns committed to him for the remainder of the season. And what does he do? He invites the attention. He wants to be the distraction. He prefers the celebrity status over the team and clearly his handshake agreement with the Off. coaching staff. He did lie. He did disobey. He did put the Browns, both the coaches and his teammates in the rear view mirror.
I hope this is a teachable moment for Manziel. I truly do. I still hope we see him before season's end.
Again, this is not entirely about him drinking, IMO. So, in a nutshell, I'm in Pettine's corner on this one.
Now, if you don't mind, I'm going back to watching highlight videos of Josh Gordon on YouTube.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I love Don't Move an Inch for Lynch. LOL.
It ties into our running game.
The trouble is Rish, is that's probably how they'll pick a QB, by using the coolest 'continue to lose' slogan they come up with.
#gmstrong
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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"At this point I'm pulling for Jerry Jones to land this guy and save him from this dysfunctional franchise in which he cannot just be himself, like his team mates, and cannot ever be successful in this environment. I believe Jerry Jones, who has a certain amount of respect league-wide, will do what Mike Pettine and the Cleveland organization could not do and that is to "Pffft" the whole thing, paint Johnny as no different than anybody else, and diminish the interest in persecuting this kid. Johnny can then be home in Texas, permitted to be himself, as is everybody else, and play football."
Remember.. Jerry Jones is the guy who put babysitters on Dez Bryant almost 24/7 for several years. My point 32 is that Jones has certainly has his share of malcontents and trouble makers and deals with them in a way that gets the best out of them.
#gmstrong
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what did you think of that?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Based on our WR corp, I'll take Gordon back in a heartbeat! And Johnny too if he ever gets his act together.  But thank you, nonetheless, for posting that picture for the 101th time.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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"At this point I'm pulling for Jerry Jones to land this guy and save him from this dysfunctional franchise in which he cannot just be himself, like his team mates, and cannot ever be successful in this environment. I believe Jerry Jones, who has a certain amount of respect league-wide, will do what Mike Pettine and the Cleveland organization could not do and that is to "Pffft" the whole thing, paint Johnny as no different than anybody else, and diminish the interest in persecuting this kid. Johnny can then be home in Texas, permitted to be himself, as is everybody else, and play football."
Remember.. Jerry Jones is the guy who put babysitters on Dez Bryant almost 24/7 for several years. My point 32 is that Jones has certainly has his share of malcontents and trouble makers and deals with them in a way that gets the best out of them. Jones would just have the party at his house and no way would pictures make it to the internet.
#GMSTRONG
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Based on our WR corp, I'll take Gordon back in a heartbeat! And Johnny too if they ever gets their act together. But thank you, nonetheless, for posting that picture for the 101th time. fixed that for you. just dont hold your breath....
Last edited by pblack18707; 11/25/15 05:23 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Good job by a professional
I hope we keep hartline for next year at least.
Now pet needs to drive the point home today and this subject should be dropped (I know the TMZs won't drop it - but a quality coach will - imagine belichecks response - heck he would have already figured out Johnny and the rest of the league would know for sure - but I digress)
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Some bogus unimportant ultimatum that is a desperate show-of-power attempt by someone who is in over their head I disagree - completely, vehemently, wholeheartedly. I'm going to speak from personal experience and knowledge here... I am a recovering alcoholic. I knew it in my bones as early as age 17, yet I never got sober until I was 35. In all of those years in between there were attempts to clean up - and subsequent relapses. I'm 9-1/2 years sober right now, and I know that there are several members of this site that have double and maybe even triple the number of years sobriety that I have that can validate what I'm saying here: On recovery: everyone wants to argue what his substance might or might not be, but what nobody is realizing is that IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's all the SAME THING. If you're a coke addict and you keep on drinking, you are NOT clean. All you've done is substitute your drug of choice. If you want to know more on that, ask me - or ask Google, there is a LOT out there on this topic. I just had to point that out, and beyond that, it's all moot (or 'moo', if you think it matters as much as a cow's opinion) for the rest of this. To me, looking from the perspective of my experiences and what I'm seeing/reading about what has gone on with this kid, it is pretty darn clear that he's got a real, bonafide problem, and it's better than even odds that it is alcohol based upon the articles above. I would at this point go so far as to call him an alcoholic, and what we are witnessing from him right now is something I've been through a few times myself and that is the progressive slide backwards from recovery to a full-blown relapse. What I'm seeing Pett & Company doing is trying to freaking help the kid by giving him a wake up call. The door is still open for him to return to play if he cleans his act up - and it is slammed shut if he doesn't. It is Manziel's Choice. Good job, Purple. It'll be 20 years clean & sober for me this January. I think the door is pretty much shut - or is in the process of being shut - pretty much for Johnny playing for us now, all due to alcohol. It's too bad, I still would have loved to see him play these last few games, but he blew it by continuing to drink and Pettine said enough is enough.That's the way the cookie crumbles in the Factory of Sadness/Parade of Disaster here in Cleveland. nobody more heartless or judgmental than a recovering alcoholic...even worse than a self-righteous born again christian This statement is harsh and most of all, it's completely incorrect. Not to mention, uncalled for. My business partner is 40 years sober and he's not judgmental in the least. he's trusting, honest, hardworking. He's faced his demon and come out a better person for it. If you knew anything, you'd know what kinda of arse you make of yourself when you type out things like that. sorry but I know too well from personal experience that's the way it is and your tone suggests you might be the same way, but I was reacting to the sanctimonious tone of the original poster and the fact that you felt the need to butt in and "straighten me out" only supports that
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what did you think of that? That there is stuff internally that people may not know about. My guess is the specifics about his meeting with the off. staff coupled with how the players are reacting (not kindly) to him continuing to provide distractions. Knee jerk thoughts.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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what did you think of that? That there is stuff internally that people may not know about. My guess is the specifics about his meeting with the off. staff coupled with how the players are reacting (not kindly) to him continuing to provide distractions. Knee jerk thoughts. yea. i thought so. also looked pissed that he had to talk about it?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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"At this point I'm pulling for Jerry Jones to land this guy and save him from this dysfunctional franchise in which he cannot just be himself, like his team mates, and cannot ever be successful in this environment. I believe Jerry Jones, who has a certain amount of respect league-wide, will do what Mike Pettine and the Cleveland organization could not do and that is to "Pffft" the whole thing, paint Johnny as no different than anybody else, and diminish the interest in persecuting this kid. Johnny can then be home in Texas, permitted to be himself, as is everybody else, and play football."
Remember.. Jerry Jones is the guy who put babysitters on Dez Bryant almost 24/7 for several years. My point 32 is that Jones has certainly has his share of malcontents and trouble makers and deals with them in a way that gets the best out of them. Jones would just have the party at his house and no way would pictures make it to the internet. Well, his cred would be so much more to Johnny than these circus clowns who run this team that he may just listen to him.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel (Continued)
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