DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel continued

What did he do that any other NFL player didn't do on their off week? How, in any way, was the organization discredited? Our play on the field has done that already, I counter Daddy Pettine should be a lot more concerned about that than Johnny having a drink.


The rules are for all of them, I have zero problem with that.


The rules in place are silly and out of line . Daddy Pettine thinks he is coaching a high school team. If going out doesn't affect his performance or embarrass the team then I don't care what he does. If they think what he did was embarrassing, well, I'm not sure what to say. I really hate that he lied, but there were also absured stipulations put into place for just him that no other team member had to abide by.


At this point I hope the kid does get to go somewhere else and have a chance. We can continue to get choir boys and suck. I beginning to think fans of this team want to lose.

All of this defense for a guy I don't even think is going to be a good NFL QB, but I'd like a chance to see if I'm wrong.

look bro, i was all on board with the "pettine is stupid" campaign, but now that it looks like manziel told his homeys to lie about when the video took place? eh...i gotta back pettine on this one. i still want him canned, but on this event, he got it right.

see, if it was just the pics that came out, i was on manziel's side because maybe in his POV, he didn't do anything wrong.

but him lying about it tells me he knows damn well he was in the wrong, and was trying to cover his tracks.

I'm with you, i hate the choir boy crap. i want meat heads. i want nasty, trash talking players like that CB Norman on the panthers, or Cam Newton.

however, i don't want idiots, there's a huge difference. The difference between a lot of these guys that trash talk and all that is that they can STAY ON THE FIELD.

we got guys who have talent out of this world, but can't stay on the field in manziel and Gordon.

At this point, we should've cut him. just go into the draft with the intentions of drafting a QB.

I've read most of your posts on this, and it seems that your biggest problem with it is that Manziel is being held to a higher standard than other players. But Pettine addressed that very issue with he following statement:

“The position of quarterback is always going to be held to a higher standard than any other position on the team,” Pettine said. “That is the reality. It is not just about talent. It is not just about what you do on the field.

“To be successful at the position requires a great understanding of what is involved in the non-physical aspects – the leadership, the trust, the accountability, responsibility, the diligence. You have to take the mentality that no one is going to outwork you. That has to be understood when you play the position at this level.

“When you have a great opportunity in front of you, it is important that you demonstrate that you can handle the responsibility that comes with it. I can’t emphasize enough the importance of the trust and the accountability piece. This is where we had an obvious shortcoming.”

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=51881

You're free to disagree with that, but that is Pettine's motivation, with the support of Farmer and Haslam. I agree with Pettine that a QB is necessarily held to a higher standard, and if the young man is not comfortable with that then he should probably start thinking about his next career.

From Vers on the other thread:



I'm under the impression that there is more to this then him simply having a few drinks.

The team has rules for a reason and in this case it appears that they set out some guidelines for Manziel that were "FOR HIM" specifically. And for good reason.

It also appears that manziel wasn't exactly forthcoming about his activities.

This is punishment for him not for drinking, but for not being honest about it.

I'm sure you've seen this already but just in case..

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...byeweek-actions

I think they were right to bench him... JMO

You are correct Dave. I don't agree he should have different rules. I really, really hate that he lied but he also should not have been in that position. If the whole team had those rules, fine.

We knew who he was when he was drafted, there is blame on the organization thinking he was going to stop partying. It is his persona at this point and if it doesn't affect his play I don't care what he does (legal of course).

After a couple of days to reflect, my opinion has been altered.
Johnny had been named the starter on the bye week. Instead of heading back to Texas, he should have kept his ass in Cleveland and embraced his new status, hit the film like crazy and prepare as best as he could.


If he gets another chance, he should assume it's his last one in Cleveland.

Actually, if you recall, Manziel was freaking choirboy in the months leading up to the draft, avoiding the Super Bowl parties, and generally disappearing from social media during that period. It lead a lot of teams to believe (incorrectly) that he had finally grown up, and turned over a new leaf. Then after the draft the stories and images started up again - the swan, shooting champagne over crowds of people in Vegas, rolling up dollar bills in bathrooms, etc. He really is Eddie Haskell. He'll say what he thinks you want to hear to your face, and then proceed to do whatever he damn pleases.

Also, apparently there's 60+ QBs in the NFL who don't have a problem with being held to a higher standard than their teammates, because they know it comes with the territory. Its how the league is, because pro QB is the toughest position in all of sports to play well.

This quote is just great coming from a guy that has shown zero responsibility for the garbage on the field. What accountability has Mike shown for our awful defense, horrible penalties, God awful clock management? We can't block, can't rush, can't cover, can't tackle - where is the accountability on that?

As I said, I do think Mike is doing this because he feels it is in the best interest for Manziel. I get that. I also think he needs to concentrate on football more that disciplining Johnny. He needs to discipline the team for the horrible on-field mistakes. Where is hugs accountability he us preaching so much about?

He us still only 22.

+1

People in a leadership position are ALWAYS held to a higher standard, which means different rules. If JM doesn't like the rules that go with being the #1, he can always play just well enough to be the #2 or #3.

Quarterbacks have been some of the biggest party guys in the NFL. Our own Bernie Kosar drank like a fish. He performed in the NFL Skills contest drunk on his butt. Funny how the Browns were not "embarrassed" about that.

Guys like Sonny Jurgenson, Namath, Stabler, Farve, Bernie, Jim Kelly, Big Ben, Cutler, Eli, Kap, Romo, Stafford, etc have been known to love to party.

Too much hypocrisy is thriving on here. Gee, what a surprise that is.

None of them entered into rehab for alcohol during their playing days.

Maybe just maybe they want Johnny to hold himself to a better standard?? maybe?

Perhaps it's because times are achangin' Vers. The level of "professionalism" has increased and you now need to be able to play close to 100% of your capabilities. What was once thought a quirk in your character (drunkennss, etc) is now seen as a fatal flaw. Probably not well stated, but I believe you get my drift...

No it was a great reply and nuts on..

I wasn't there, I don't have a news story or document to refer to, but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon (see what I did there) to figure out that about the time Johnny left the rehab facility, the Browns had a sit down with him, the result of which was an agreement that if he reverted to certain behaviors, there would be consequences. As any parent (or any other person with authority over another) knows, if you set a rule, then don't back up your statements when that rule is tested, you 1) give license to violate that rule in the future and 2) have lost your authority to enforce rules.

The minute Johnny entered rehab, a different set of rules applied. Columbus is arguing passionately about Johnny being held to a different standard. Others have argued that is because he is a QB. I say that is because he went to rehab. When it was announced he had entered the facility, the reaction from the Browns rang of genuine surprise, so I am reasonably sure they did not convince him he needed to go. My guess is that came from his family.

Regardless, an agreement regarding behavior makes sense, and he has twice in the last month publicly reverted to old behaviors. The Browns had to act.

Yeah............it's better to embrace guys like Greg Hardy who put deep, ugly bruises over most of that woman's body.

Or, perhaps it is Big Ben, who forces himself sexually on women.

Maybe it's Adrian Peterson, who bruised his son's testicles w/a switch.

Then again, one guy blows his fingers off w/fireworks and gets a nice contract. That sure is accountability.

Perhaps it is drafting one qb who stole a laptop, cheated on an academic exam, and tried to take money from one SEC school [at the very least] and then went to play for another.

Or, maybe it is a guy accused of raping a woman in college, stealing from a store, yelling out insults towards women, etc and then being drafted first overall.

Perhaps, that is why I find this mess hypocritical.

I hope the kid gets out of Cleveland and lands with a real NFL Team , Owner / FO / Coaching , would like to see what he could accomplish !

I don't recall the Browns doing this can you refresh my memory please??

Then you are talking about the NFL as a whole, not just the Browns?

And for the record I like Johnny but the kid doesnt seem able to hold himself accountable over the long term..also I don't think what he did this last time was even remotely bad..but he made a promise to the team to stay out of the spotlight..he couldnt do it and is paying for it now:/

So...we should operate like other NFL teams do?

I like the sense of player personal life accountability that's established on our team. I'd hate if Greg Hardy played for the Cleveland Browns.

I am talking about the absurdity of the Browns. There is no "higher standard." That is some gobbly-gook made-up by some posters to defend the Browns. This same management brought back Josh Gordon last year and put him in the starting line-up after all the times he was actually CAUGHT BREAKING THE RULES!!!! And unlike Johnny, Josh didn't even give rehab a chance.

Hpocritical crap!

If Johnny wants to be all he can be as a QB in the NFL, he needs to terminate his drug use (alcohol) for good, it's as simple as that. He's an addict and should not use.

Don't forget what a trainwreck/disappointment he was his first season because he was drinking. Even though he's playing way better this year bad stuff is happening again this season, because (what else?) he's drinking again.

...I still wish he was playing the rest of the season (sighs).

Sure. What is wrong w/drafting good players, not texting plays to the sidelines, and winning games?

Or they are recognizing their mistakes and are trying to correct them for future players??

Wait! What? Are you saying they have already cut Gordon?

I get your point man..personally don't think Gordon will make it back..but I did kind of say FUTURE players no? I guess you could consider Gordon a future player I don't

not allowed to cut a player under Suspension.

I could be wrong but I thought you had kids Vers, am I right about that. For the moment, let's assume I am.

If you set guideline for your kids and they follow them, you are good with that I'm sure. How do you feel when they stray from that path?

I suppose you aren't overly excited by that. But I think what would tick you off even more is if you asked them what they did and they lied to you about it. Just a guess, but I think you'd be like me, more angry over the lie than I would be over the act.

That's just me I guess, but you strike me as a guy that wouldn't put up with misbehavior.

Now, think of it this way, your lively hood hangs in the balance, you are paying this kid a couple of million a year and he lies to you, what then?

No big deal the rest of the kids do it:/

Well then just get rid of him. It is unfair to expect more out if him than other players. I find it odd that I am even defending this guy as his choices are far and away not even close to what I would do. I'd be like Mike wants his players to be. I'm successful because of hard work and dedication, so I do understand Mikes intentions.

That said, we drafted Johnny to play football. Nothing he did affects that whatsoever. I find it interesting that at least 50% of our fan base gets absolutely sloshed tailgating before the game but have an issue with Johnny partying.

This distraction is a godsend to this staff. It seems to have made a lot of fans forget about the crappy, undisciplined mess we have on the field to worry about what a 22 year old kid does in his off time. I get he lied, and really dislike that, but our numbskull staff put unrealistic rules in place IMO. This demotion is just plain stupid, and my mind will likely not change on that.

Daddy Pettine! News flash - Pettine isn't his dad. As a parent of a CHILD of course you would be upset. As a coach (and I use that term loosely) it is not his place to be dad.

Terrible analogy.

It's apparent you are upset over this, but trying to excuse JM's bad behavior by pointing out other people's bad behavior isn't going to cut it. Hardy is an a-hole.. no one disagrees... but how does Hardy playing for the Cowboys have in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with the Browns and how the Brown's FO chooses to run things?

Since Manziel has proven he's not interested in being a team leader and leading by example and he's too tall to be one of our receivers, I'm afraid we'll have to try and trade him to Dallas. Jones defends Hardy and loves himself some morons.

What are these unrealistic rules you keep talking about?

Keep your promise as a man?
Show some integrity and don't lie when you get caught?

Has it occurred that maybe Johnny doesn't actually have any rules all that different from the rest of the team? That maybe because of HIS behavior, HIS maturity level, HIS under developed sense of professionalism, that certain rules have to be pointedly emphasized with him?

What if we offered to trade Manziel FOR Hardy????