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Legend
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Legend
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How is this front office gonna sell this team to upcoming free agents in 2016?  However, you then get into the argument about how valuable FA is to a team? We've seen countless times FA signings don't transform your organization. Scheme Continuity. Retaining home grown talent via draft. These two points usually prove to be the better path.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Exactly!
You have to throw out big $$$ to get them to sign right now. That is the whole reason for the large looking contracts.
Once you get a few decent players and start winning, it gets much easier to sign players.
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Legend
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Legend
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Yes, but throwing out the big money isn't always the right thing, and in free agency, it's usually the wrong thing.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Dawg Talker
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Well, considering that the Browns HAVE to spend a certain amount of money, their only choices are to give bigger contracts to existing players (Benjamin? Gibson? etc) or pay big contracts to FAs.
I'm personally in favor of paying our own players, as long as they fit into the long term plans of the team. And by long term, I mean the next 6 months until a new GM is in place.
Not sure what pending FAs will be available that are worth paying. I doubt a top-level talent is available. It's always B-grade talent that is either at the twilight of his career or has lost a step and is getting paid based on past year's performance.
Wash, rinse, repeat again. Again.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Yes, but throwing out the big money isn't always the right thing, and in free agency, it's usually the wrong thing. That's one reason why I chose this route. Long contracts with voidable years. With the cap hit front loaded instead of back loaded. I'm not sure many understand so I'll give you guys an example... Lets break down the contract offer for Jefferey... 8 years, $100 mil, $25 mil guaranteed, 2 voidable years. Looks huge right? The only other WR out there with a $100 mil contract is Calvin Johnson. But look closer... Calvin Johnson's yearly average is $16,207,143 and his cap hit in 2016 is $24,008,000, almost twice the hit I'm taking with Jefferey. Here are the top 7 yearly contract averages at WR. Calvin Johnson $16,207,143 AJ Green $15,000,000 Julio Jones $14,250,000 Dez Bryant $14,000,000 Demaryius Thomas $14,000,000 TY Hilton $13,000,000 Mike Wallace $12,000,000 Jefferey would fit in right between Hilton and Wallace at $12,500,000 Now where most teams get into trouble with those huge contracts is that they structure them so that lots of money paid up front is pushed to future years as far as the cap hit goes. The cap hit for my contract offer is exactly $12.5 mil every year and only the first two years are guaranteed. After the second year, if he was just entirely horrible, the cap hit for cutting him would be exactly Zero! Now here is the franchise tag number for the last few years at WR. 2013 $10.357 mil 2014 $12.312 mil 2015 $12.80 mil 2016 $14.691 mil (estimated) So in three years the contracts for the top 5 WR's went up by $4 mil. If that trend held the top WR's in 2018 would be making $18-$19 mil. I would have Jefferey's contract for 6 more years at $12.5 mil with no guaranteed money left on the contract. In 2018 I could... 1) Cut him and owe him nothing 2) Trade him to a team wanting the team friendly contract. 3) Keep him and pay him less than other top WR's are making with no worries about guaranteed money. If his performance takes a nose-dive at any time between 2018 and 2021, I can cut him and walk away owing him nothing without any cap hit at all. In 2022 or 2023 if he is still performing at a high level and I can't manage to pull off a trade, I can void his contract and hope he signs for a high amount somewhere else getting me a high comp pick. The large looking contract draws in the big name FA's, while keeping my commitment pretty low other than the next 2 years. Teams usually give a player at least a couple of years before giving up on him anyway.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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In 2018 I could...
1) Cut him and owe him nothing
2) Trade him to a team wanting the team friendly contract.
3) Keep him and pay him less than other top WR's are making with no worries about guaranteed money.
What sports agent with any credibility would promote an offer this team friendly w/ so much uncertainly after 2 seasons to their client? 8 year deal for $100M ($25M guaranteed)to be possibly voided with no guaranteed money ramifications after 2 seasons? I don't see it. Someone like Jeffrey would be looking for his big pay day/ job secure contract. No way someone like him would take essentially a 2yr, $25 deal. Injuries or bad QB performance would diminish his value and subsequent contracts wouldn't be nearly as high if he was cut because of above situations. JMO
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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In 2018 I could...
1) Cut him and owe him nothing
2) Trade him to a team wanting the team friendly contract.
3) Keep him and pay him less than other top WR's are making with no worries about guaranteed money.
What sports agent with any credibility would promote an offer this team friendly to their client? 8 year deal for $100M ($25M guaranteed)to be possibly voided with no guaranteed money ramifications after 2 seasons? I don't see it. Someone like Jeffrey would be looking for his big pay day/ job secure contract. No way someone like him would take essentially a 2yr, $25 deal. Injuries or bad QB performance would diminish his value and subsequent contracts wouldn't be nearly as high if he was cut because of above situations. JMO Any sports agent in the world. They make their money off the totals. I am guaranteeing $25 mil and I'll be paying $25 mil. Rather than pushing the cap hit over total contract, I am simply taking the cap hit in the first two years of the contract. If I pushed it out like other teams, nothing would change for Jefferey. What changes is I'm not chained to him because I kicked the can down the road with the cap hit. Joe Thomas has a contract structured like this. If we cut him tomorrow, we owe him nothing. His guaranteed money has already been paid.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I think that Mingo and Bowe are almost certainly gone, and that Mack will certainly opt out. (barring significant injury) Personally, there are a few more than just those two that I hope are gone. Bowe of course and I like Mingo but he just hasn't produced. I really thought he would under Pettine,, I was wrong. I'm sick of the antics by Manziel. Him going away (hopefully for something in return) would be great. I love Dansby, but his days are numbered.. Justin Gilbert may be a good ST player, but man are we ever over paying for that so if he went, I'd be ok with that. Besides I think we got a winner if Ekpre-Olomu is as advertised and can come back from that injury.  I'm worried about Mack opting out. Irving doesn't strike me as a guy that we can actually expect to take that role over. At least I haven't seen enough to think he can. Who knows.. We've got problems.. lots and lots of problems. Doesn't matter who the GM and Coach are next year, They will have their hands full..
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/30/15 12:59 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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In 2018 I could...
1) Cut him and owe him nothing
2) Trade him to a team wanting the team friendly contract.
3) Keep him and pay him less than other top WR's are making with no worries about guaranteed money.
What sports agent with any credibility would promote an offer this team friendly to their client? 8 year deal for $100M ($25M guaranteed)to be possibly voided with no guaranteed money ramifications after 2 seasons? I don't see it. Someone like Jeffrey would be looking for his big pay day/ job secure contract. No way someone like him would take essentially a 2yr, $25 deal. Injuries or bad QB performance would diminish his value and subsequent contracts wouldn't be nearly as high if he was cut because of above situations. JMO Any sports agent in the world. They make their money off the totals. I am guaranteeing $25 mil and I'll be paying $25 mil. Rather than pushing the cap hit over total contract, I am simply taking the cap hit in the first two years of the contract. If I pushed it out like other teams, nothing would change for Jefferey. What changes is I'm not chained to him because I kicked the can down the road with the cap hit. Joe Thomas has a contract structured like this. If we cut him tomorrow, we owe him nothing. His guaranteed money has already been paid. Joe Thomas has also put a lot of work into this team. Cap friendly contracts only exist when the player wants to work for the teams. These contracts are pretty outrageous. They sound nice, but no one in their right mind would do it. Especially someone who is oft injured like Alshon Jeffrey.
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Rookie
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Part 5 - Putting it all together Okay I have laid out a framework for next year, now to come up with game-plan. What I'd try to do from here... 1) Eliminate Dead weight on roster in a cap friendly way. 2) Do what you can to limit cap risk. 3) Upgrade in Free Agency where possible. 4) Target what you can't find in the draft in Free Agency. 5) Make every draft choice count. Before Free Agency Starts...
1) Cut Dwayne Bowe. Collect $3,400,000
2) Talk to Alex Mack's agent and find out where we stand. See below.
3) Make a reasonable offer to Tashaun Gipson. See offer below. If it doesn't appear to be in right neighborhood, then move on.
4) Make Travis Benjamin the offer below.
5) Make Craig Robertson the offer below.
6) Make Mitchell Schwartz the offer below.
7) Make Gary Barnidge the offer below.
8) Make Scott Solomon the offer below.
9) Make Josh Gordon the offer below.
10) Make Jamie Meder the offer below.
11) Make Darian Miller the offer below.
12) Make a call to Alshon Jefferey's agent. Offer him the very specific deal below.
13) Make a call to Eric Weddle's agent. Offer him the very specific deal below. Eric is more talented than both Gipson and Whitner and plays either safety position at a Pro-Bowl level. He can also play corner and even on offense. If we do sign him, see options below.
14) Call Mike Daniels agent. Make him the very specific offer below.
15) Call Danny Trevathan's agent. Make him the offer below.
Tell all the agents above that you need an agreement before Free Agency starts or you have to move on to plan B. Fuel the jet and have everybody that interested in your office the minute free agency starts.
Contracts the Patriot Way You are going to notice a theme here. Voidable years added to the end of contracts. When you void years rather than cut players, you can get a compensatory pick for them when they sign elsewhere. If you do this with all your highly paid players, chances are you will get higher comp picks as well. 1) Bowe stole money this year. Cutting him puts our Cap number at $127,892,266. 2) Mack is probably gone, but we need to know that right away. There are 8,000,000 reasons that we need to know right away. There are 24,000,000 that he might want to stay. I would sell him on the fact that he is loved by the fans and we want him to retire a Brown. I would also offer to extend his contract if he is looking for more security. Adding a couple of years would lock him up until he is 35. We could make those years mutually voidable as well to help us with comp picks.
If he leaves, our Cap number is at $119,892,266 3) Tashaun Gipson's contract offer:
8 years, $68 mil, $20 million guaranteed. 2 years team voidable.
What this contract does is essentially guarantee the first 2 years of salary and $3 mil of the 3rd year. The cap hit for each year is 8.5 mil. If he happens to ball out, we have him locked up until he is 33. If we want, we can cut him at any time after the 2nd year, with a 3 mil cap hit in year 3 and none after that. We can also void his contract when he is 31 and get a good comp pick for him. I was only going to offer him 8 mil a year, but I would offer him 8.5 mil in this structure.
This would give him the highest total contract, 4th highest average per year and 3rd highest guaranteed money.
4) Travis Benjamin's offer:
8 years, $52 mil, $13 mil guaranteed, 2 years team voidable.
Same structure as above first two years guaranteed Cap hit $6.5 mil each year.
5) Craig Robertson's offer:
6 years, $21 mil, $7 mil guaranteed, 2 years voidable.
Same structure as above with $2.33 mil of each of the first 3 years guaranteed. $3.5 mil a year cap hit 6) Mitchell Schwartz's offer:
8 years, $40 mil, $15 mil guaranteed, 3 years voidable.
Same structure as above with first 2 years fully guaranteed and years 3 and 4 guaranteed for 50%. Cap hit of $5 mil a year. This should be the easiest contract to negotiate because we have the threat of transition tag with Mitchell. 7) Gary Barnidge's offer:
5 years, $20 mil, $6 mil guaranteed, 1 year voidable
1st year guaranteed, 50% second year guaranteed, 4 mil cap hit. 8) Make Scott Solomon the offer below.
1 year minimum. 9) Josh Gordon's offer:
10 years, $55 mil, no guaranteed money, entire contract voidable by team at any time. Cap hit $5.5 mil year. If Josh behaves, he makes money. If not, he doesn't. 10) Jamie Meder's offer:
6 years, 12 mil, 2 mil guaranteed, 1 voidable year 11) Make Darian Miller the offer below.
1 year minimum Now The FA's from other teams: 12) Alshon Jefferey:
The pitch: Josh wanted you specifically. You guys have a chemistry. We are ready to make you one of the highest paid WR's in the NFL and we want you to retire here.
The Offer:
8 years, $100 mil, $25 mil guaranteed, 2 voidable years.
1st 2 years guaranteed. 12.5 mil a year cap hit. 13) Eric Weddle
The pitch: We want you to come in and help lead our defense. You will be a piece of one of the best secondaries in the NFL. We will have you playing multiple positions in the secondary. We want you to retire a Brown.
The offer:
5 years, $50 mil, $20 mil guaranteed, 2 voidable years.
If we do sign him, and Gipson signs then we cut Whitner. If Gipson does not sign, then he plays free safety. $10 mil a year cap hit. 14) Mike Daniels:
The pitch:
You are a perfect fit for our defense. We want to pay you like one of the top 3-4 DE's in football. We want you to retire a Brown.
The offer:
7 years, $49 mil, $15 mil guaranteed, 2 years voidable. Cap hit $7 mil a year. 15) Danny Trevathan:
The pitch:
You are a perfect fit for our defense. We want to make you one of the highest paid ILB's. We want you to retire a Brown.
The offer:
8 years, $56 mil, $21 mil guaranteed, 2 voidable years,
First 3 years guaranteed. $7 mil a year cap hit. Another benefit of having the voidable years is that we pump up the total contract to look much larger than what we are actually committed to. This will help other players take notice that the Browns are making an effort to sign the best players as well. This is important when we get to the secondary free agent market. This part has already become much longer than I thought, so I'm going to stop here and continue later. I have more dead weight to get rid of. I have to show that I can fit all of these guys under the cap. And then I have to start talking about the draft. More to come. You might be getting a call soon from the Browns Front Office if you keep this up, haha. Browns Moneyball on the forums. I like the read! It's been entertaining, original and informative.
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Dawg Talker
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*In Baker we trust*
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I don't think Farmer is going anywhere and I hope Pettine doesn't either.
Are you sure you don't work over there with Jimmy in Bratenahl at the estate and doing some spinning here? I haven't seen you in the building? Honestly, I could not disagree with you more. 
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Legend
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Legend
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The troll gets bolder and bolder as we lose...get a life. Oh a little fact for you to look forward to.
The last 4 Bengal playoff games (all Losses)
In the 2nd half the Bengals has gotten a total of -0- TDs TOTAL!!! and -0- Turnovers to their D... Zero.
lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All Pro
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All Pro
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The troll gets bolder and bolder as we lose...get a life. Actually JH would likely have someone not as blatantly a homer fan to do his bidding. JH will pull the trigger to get rid of, at least, one of them: Ray-ray or Pet.
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