DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Terroist Attack On Planned Parenthood Center in Colorado

It's viewed that way here, and I'm referring to my home. That's all I can be responsible for. I have no agendas, I just call things straight up, then go find a thread and look for a joke possibility.

[quote=Swish]thanks. its almost 930 here. i woke up at 6 out of habit. and i'm a morning person, so i wake up turnt up to the max. [/quot

I used to be that way myself..but age and other factors nipped that in the bud..I sleep way more then I should..

This case has many twists and turns so far. Suicide note, anti Obama rants and anti abortion rants.

Terrorism? Who knows? Nut? Yes.

The only thing I know so far is that my prayers go out to all the victims and to the killer himself.

I was just enjoying the irony. Our administration cautions to have patience until all the info is in before we declare and act of Islamic terror, but someone on the board is calling this attack terror before anything is really known. BTW, I am not saying the president has declared this as an act of terror. I tend not to watch the news on the weekends.

Personally, I already assume this guy had an intense hatred of abortion and the people that perform it. The people that tend to attack abortion clinics follow the path of a radicalized Christian, and usually they self radicalize. The Atlanta bomber and unibomber self radicalized.

I will just wait until this guy makes more of a statement than he has, and see if he gives his motivation.

Why did he choose Planned Parenthood?

As the fly is drawn to the stockyard,
Evil is drawn to the Human Slaughterhouse.

(GOP Cadidate) Fiorina, a former Hewlett-Packard chief executive, also condemned the fatal attack Friday on a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colo., saying the shooter is “deranged’ and should be tried for murder.

However, she said trying to link the killings to those who support the pro-life movement or oppose Planned Parenthood selling fetal tissue for research is “typical left-wing tactics.”

“The vast majority think what they’re doing is wrong,” Fiorina said.

She also addressed reports that the alleged shooter, Richard Lewis Dear, said “no more baby parts,” an apparent reference to the non-profit research sales.

Fiorina said Planned Parenthood stating recently that it would not long continue the practice “sounds like an indication they were.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/...ml?intcmp=hpbt2

Yet linking any sort of radical jihadist to mainline islam isn't "typical right-wing tactics". Give me a break.

Oh look, the teacher finally speaks!

So she condemn the attacks, the turned around and justified it.

sounds like Americans version of Islam to me.

Linking articles and titling them something that hasnt been proven.."typical left-wing tactics" Give me a break://

Terrorism is a tactic, nothing more. There is not one single group that owns the license to this method. Funny how I mentioned street gangs in the Paris attack thread.

He got arrested because he surrendered. There was an exchange of gunfire between cops and the shooter. I'm sure if they could've killed him, they would have. All of this occurred right next to a shopping center on black friday.

Swish if you're in the inner city area shooting at cops then as far as they are concerned it's open season because the cop's life is more than likely in danger. It never fails to amaze me that black inner city folks will call the cops in expecting them to go into a highly dangerous area like it's a Sunday walk in the park.

The cops show up and big surprise the crap hits the fan. Do cops even have a choice of being less than lethal in many of these cases? There are so many cases where a cop gets injured or killed from taking things too lightly while being in the inner city.

While I admit I don't like cops in general, I have know several that have died in the line of duty. One was killed by a white ex-convict in a shootout and the other 3 died from black inner city punks shooting them. I honestly don't even blame cops for being arseholes anymore.

The lack of respect officers are treated with is the number one reason they are pissed off all the time. Cop pulls me over I am yes sir, no sir, thank you very much sir. I have never had a problem with cops treating me bad even though once upon a time I used to get hassled a lot because I owned a 1980 buick regal With a modified suspension system so they always were pulling me over to check for drug running when I went through this one town on the way to college to the point I started to know some of them by name ...

Want cops to treat you better then treat them with respect first and keep your cool.

When it comes to that poor black kid getting killed that is tragic. Still why would it be all that shocking? A black inner city kid gets shot? It's so common it's not even news these days. People are totally desensitized. I am not saying it's fair mind you but it's the reality.

White gangs we call organized crime. You don't see these guys most of the time because they try to be sneaky about killing people. They like to look like normal people. This is why when a white guy goes on a killing spree it usually IS some form of mental illness.

Black gangs we call thugs. These guys kill someone everyone knows who did it and half the time they are bragging about it. Everyone knows who they are including the cops and in general the cops try to avoid the areas they know they are in because they know it's going to end up with violence. There are many, many black people in these gangs with mental illness but since even the normal ones are just as violent it doesn't really make a difference.

So a white gang member goes up before the judge. He acts contrite and acts sorry for what he has done. "Family" members come to court and express that if only they knew they would have helped him more... The judge knows the prisons are over crowded ... so goes with a lighter sentence because he thinks there is a higher chance of rehabilitation. He might even be right.

A black gang members goes up before the judge and he cops an attitude, is angry he is being punished, and IF his family is there are all they are just angry and mad at the judge and the courts in general. Judge sees no remorse and no supportive family so views the guys as a lost cause. Figures its best to just get rid of a future problem and is far more likely to issue a death penalty.

There are always exceptions to these scenarios but "in general" things will tend to follow that pattern.

I am not saying it's right or that it is fair but it IS the reality.

As for me I am so numb to all the violence out there that most of it doesn't even lift an eyebrow anymore. Kid getting shot? Another mass shooting? More education cuts? More people getting laid off? Hell it's just another darn day in America...

Where did she justify it? Is it in a section of the article that didn't get posted? (for some reason the link won't open for me).

Don't feel we would ever agree on what non biased reporting is. Our own perspectives, life experiences and own bias would cloud the perception of any type of reporting. Say what you want, the past has proven this to be true.

I might of missed it also but I don't think she did condone it.

I do..quit using code words..call a duck a duck..quit slanting the info to the left or right depending on agenda.

Report the FACTS not your slanted opinion. < this one would be a start.

Stop the sensationalist headlines/reporting.

When the whole article or report is based off of I think..we don't know..we assume..but report it as fact is dishonest.

Or using thread titles like the one used on this very thread instead of...oh..I dont know..what the actual title of the article is would be a good start.

But it is the world we live in 24hr a day news and they have to keep people reading/interested somehow:/

JMHO

I wasn't talking about reporting at all, non-biased or otherwise. I was talking about us, here in the forum, we don't need to play games. Just call it straight up. Murderer lacks a specific ideology, just all encompassing.

Fiorina: Obama 'delusional' about magnitude of climate change as security threat


Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina on Sunday called President Obama “delusional” to think climate change is the country’s biggest terror threat and criticized liberals and others trying to make a political statement about the recent Planned Parenthood shootings.

“That’s delusional for President Obama, Hillary Clinton or anyone else to say that climate change is the biggest security threat,” Fiorina told “Fox News Sunday.”

Obama has made several speeches in which he has said climate change is “an urgent and growing threat,” including his 2015 State of the Union address in which he said: "No challenge poses a greater threat to future generations than climate change."

Fiorina spoke one day before world leaders meet in France to try to reach a global pact to reduce carbon output and about two weeks after 130 people were killed in terror attacks in Paris.

“Terrorists don’t care that we’re going to Paris, other than it provides a target. President Obama is delusional on this,” continued Fiorina, with 3.5 percent of the popular vote and sixth in the GOP primary field of 13, according to the most recent averaging of polls by the nonpartisan website RealClearPolitics.com.

Fiorina, a former Hewlett-Packard chief executive, also condemned the fatal attack Friday on a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colo., saying the shooter is “deranged’ and should be tried for murder.

However, she said trying to link the killings to those who support the pro-life movement or oppose Planned Parenthood selling fetal tissue for research is “typical left-wing tactics.”

“The vast majority think what they’re doing is wrong,” Fiorina said.

She also addressed reports that the alleged shooter, Richard Lewis Dear, said “no more baby parts,” an apparent reference to the non-profit research sales.

Fiorina said Planned Parenthood stating recently that it would not long continue the practice “sounds like an indication they were.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/...ml?intcmp=hpbt2

this is what i'm talking about. mental illness?

come on man.....there's really no point on this board anymore. nobody understands.

i'm done.

Please don't I rather enjoy reading your stuff Swish..even when we disagree and I mean when we are very far apart on something:)

I've not been posting near as long as you but I agree this board feels arduous at times.

Love this - totally agree... I don't know all the facts about this guy and I'll call him a nutcase but I do tend to agree that we over use mental health when there are just some
Evil people

I do not like planned parenthood and am against most abortions, but this guy needs to be put away for life... Disagreeing with abortion does not justify shooting Up the place

I do not like planned parenthood and am against most abortions, but this guy needs to be put away for life... Disagreeing with abortion does not justify shooting Up the place [/quote]

I am ok with a woman getting one..BUT I saw a partial birth abortion performed and I damned near passed out got sick and vomited.

Planned does do some good..my wife used it when we was first together..but selling baby parts and sending women to do partial birth abortions..HELL NO.

Only way I disagree with what I said about PBA is if its needed to save the mothers life but to just wait that long is disgusting and is murder to ME.

I think I could argue that anyone killing a mass of people just because they feel like it is suffering from some kind of mental illness or another. There are a lot of black people in prison right now that should have gotten mental health help but just didn't have good enough lawyers.

You seem to have some kind of prejudice against people with mental illnesses. It's not a cop out. It's a very serious and very common problem. It goes wildly untreated and in many people left to fester until they go off of the deep end.

Are some people just guilty of doing bad things? SURE! Should we look into WHY they did those things? YES! After finding out the why should we then take that into account? MAYBE =)

I mean if you're messed up enough to start killing people then mentally ill or not you should be given death and erase a threat to the safety of the public. Other things maybe we should be more lenient. I don't care what your skin color is or your reasons, if you kill a person outside of self defense then you should be executed.

I don't get what your beef is Swish. I've lived a life hard enough to know what is real or not in this world. I don't play word games and I tell it like I have seen it. People might not like that about me but it is who I am.

White guy with a gun, shooting at a women's health care provider and stating it was because he hated abortions, in an environment that's been on fire with heated rhetoric against a woman's right?

No way it's terrorism.

It's always going to be mental health, because it's the one and only possible explanation.

Black guy shoots up a basketball court yelling crip fo life and kills multiple people in Chicago where there has been an environment of heated rhetoric against other Factions.

No way that's terrorism media and most lefties refuse to call it such "minus u Swish"

ANd maybe just maybe people called it mental health before they knew anything was because OHHH I don't knowwww it would take a nutcase to do this???

And its not the ONLY possible reason it was a guess because no one knew the reasons yet.

Spin away Rock.

Spinning is what we all do on here FBHO. It's just that you and I will probably never agree on facts.

One fact is the NRA and it's supporters have labelled every shooting spree as a mentally ill guy who happens to get hold of a gun.

I have no problem identifying living in certain neighborhoods as terrifying.

What should we do to fix these things?

I am heavily involved in the NRA and I can assure you not EVERY supporter labels every shooting spree case as mentally ill guy gets a hold of a gun.

Just the ones that well you know...are found out to be NUTS.

I have no problem identifying living in certain neighborhoods as terrifying.

Thats not what I said..label them terrorists as you like to do with this person in the article..Rock lets see if u can do it..

Facts I have zero problems with..its conjecture I have a problem with..Which not to be rude but you seem to give it out in boatloads..conjecture that is..well and weird rants that you like to call PC talk.

If I had the answers I wouldn't be pecking away at a keyboard id be doing something. I tried to do something before I retired now I just read about.

So I guess I'm back to being part ofthe problem:/

and for the record Rock I'm no fan of Wayne Robert LaPierre, Jr.

You mean a white guy that's registered to vote as an 'unaffiliated female'? The pro-life group in the area has never seen this guy before. This guy wound himself up. He's been arrested in the past for animal cruelty, peeping tom, and pushing his wife out a window. Neighbors have stated the guy is incoherent when they attempted to speak to him. Sounds like a nut job to me.

Organized violence like gangs and terrorist groups have social and economic benefits for their violence. If you grow up in the inner city you aren't necessarily mentally ill for joining a gang, it can be the only way to survive. Same with joining a terrorist group, it can be a source of income, a group, and just lots of other benefits. In cultures of extreme violence or poverty, you aren't necessarily mentally ill for being violent. It can be a rational but evil choice.

A lone nut, who we call mentally ill, often doesn't have social or economic benefits to their actions. They often have legitimate mental health issues like schizophrenia and aren't considered normal. The closest you get to normal are kids like Elliot Rogers or the Columbine kids. Who usually have severe depression combined with a bad reaction to depression meds, combined with bipolar / borderline personality.


The confusing factor here is that both lone nuts and gangs / terrorists have rhetoric and beliefs. People always justify their violence. It is insanely rare to ever hear someone go "I'm the bad guy, what I am doing is evil, but I like it". So whenever someone is killed you're always going to hear some answer as to why, usually some kind of political / social rhetoric in large groups like terrorists or gangs, and some kind of delusional crap for serial killers / school shooters etc.

We could argue that ever being violent is a form of mental illness. I'm open to that discussion. But the key difference here is the amount of benefit of violence is much much much higher for groups than it is for individuals. Many gang members and terrorists are otherwise normal people who happen to be from horrific environments. One of the big deals around these mass shootings is not giving the shooters name on air. Because then you are adding a benefit to being violent these lone nuts wouldn't usually get in the form of attention and notoriety.

A nut job TERRORIST!!!!

How can we stop mentally ill people from getting powerful weapons?

I'll add an addendum here and make a complicated argument around mental illness.

It makes a lot of sense that people are viewing the mental illness thing as a sympathetic argument. I will argue it is the exact opposite.

When we talk about people being mentally ill there are basically two categories. There are people with delusional schizophrenia like a lot serial killers. Then there are people like Columbine kids etc. who usually have depression combined with some other crap.

The key difference in these people is our evaluation of their ability to make rational decisions. If you are killing people because your neighbors dog is inhabited by satan you aren't going to be considered a moral actor capable of choice. Some people might see this as a sympathetic slant, but in reality we are completely giving up hope on them. They either need to be exterminated or locked away forever. The social solution to these people is so complex and full of peril, we're talking about massive intervention in childhoods, massive mental institutions, and an overhaul of the entire mental health structure.

Now with people like Columbine shooters, we call them mentally ill because they are acting without economic or social benefit. The only justification for their violence is some bullcrap story they have spun in their heads and they have virtually no support for it. However! They are usually rational enough to go to a damn therapist or get some help before they go slaughtering people. We don't sympathize with these clowns. They need to be exterminated or locked away, but we recognize they had more of a choice in their actions than schizophrenics. They are much more clearly Evil moral agents who had a choice.

We are generally more sympathetic to the schizophrenics but morally we condemn them as basically non-humans incapable of choice. We can be sympathetic to the childhoods of school shooters, but realistically we hate them because they had some capacity to choose and still chose to be evil.

Now terrorists and gangs. I argue we in fact feel the most sympathy for them. The key difference here is differentiating social pressure vs. mental health. We see most gang members as not insane, but in a bad environment. Terrorists lean more on the insane side, but are often making rational decisions in a horrible environment.

We actually give gang members and terrorists more sympathy because we recognize them as semi-moral agents. We accept that in large part they are normal people who are making horrible yet-semi rational decisions for their environment. Particularly with gangs we try to help these kids and influence the economics of their environment to prevent them from having to make this choice. We do not consider gang members rabid dogs who need to be put down as we do for the school shooters or schizophrenics. They can be reformed.

The true sympathy we show for people is to what extent we believe they can be reformed. Sadly this can appear less sympathetic because with choice comes responsibility. But in reality we believe these people to be generally normal people who can get help, and need that help to get them out of making horrible decisions. Their brains are working correctly much of the time, they are just in such a violent and poor situation that what they view as their best options are often violence and crime.

As an additional thing. We get especially angry at gang members when they attack or rob innocent people. Because they have more of a choice in that and are harming innocent people. The local shop keeper isn't the reason the neighborhood is poor, your dad left, and your school sucks.

We get less angry with delusional shooters we call mentally ill because we have no hope for them. We don't particularly care about their actions because we see no logic behind it and see them as having no capacity for choice. They are broken, unfixable, and hopeless; which is the harshest sentence of all.

Put them in asylums where they can get the help they need to return to society and where society can be protected from them until they are well again.

To do that you would need to make being mentally ill illegal.

Don't think you will ever stop someone from getting powerful weapons as you put it. Where there is a will there is a way..

Ive been waiting for the gun thing to get started on here yippee my favorite subject.

Gonna answer this Rock or just ignore me

I have no problem identifying living in certain neighborhoods as terrifying.

Thats not what I said..label them terrorists as you like to do with this person in the article or the crazy conservatives that shoot people..Rock lets see if u can do it..

Seeing how you love to throw that word terrorist around..can you actually use the word and not terrifying to describe inner city gangs..come on Rock surprise me and answer the question...still waiting.

It kind of is already. Funding for the mentally ill has been cut and most end up in jail or on the streets.

But they end up in county and get more abused instead of a hospital where they can get help.

I agree.

It's a complex situation. I've heard that some cities are training their officers how to interact with someone who is suspected to be mentally ill.

Their goal is to prevent conflict, arrests and to refer them for help.

So is the answer to the crazies getting powerful firearms as Rock likes to put it..open the asylums back up?? serious question.