DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel continued

I believe Banner had a brief consulting stint w/ Atlanta pertaining to their stadium plans. I do not believe he is associated with any NFL team at the moment.

Manziel has won 1 game. He's going ot have to win more than one game to convince me that he is the real deal.

Mac - in what way do you think Haslam is the root of all problems?

I can't say that he isn't - but I can't state as fact that he is.

I don't see him meddling everyday in football decisions.

He was given advice by the league on who to put in his initial front office - and they weren't very competent and in addition it seems to me that Banner was more interested in empire building (his) rather than what was in the best interest of the Browns. . . . so after one year he cut loose on a set up he thought was doomed to failure.

Since then he put in place 'his team' - Farmer was highly touted throughout the NFL. Pettine was one of a very small group of coaches willing to take the job ... as I remember Quinn was considered the front runner but he wasn't talking to us because Seattle was still playing for the SB ... I can't remember exactly but the impression I got was that Quinn was less and less warm to the Browns.

Pettine came in and I think everyone thought for a 1st year HC he did some good things. Farmer has missed on a bunch of high draft picks and will probably always be remembered for signing Bowe - an asterisk by his name that will/should follow him for life.

There were rumors of him pulling the trigger for JM - and none of us know for certain. Maybe we will find out when Farmer is canned? But probably not. Other than that I don't see a lot of interference. So what's your basis for such a black and white view?

The Browns believe Manziel has no chance of ever dealing with his personal problems unless he begins to understand fully how they impact his professional life. So that's why he went from starter to third-stringer during a bye week.

Can't disagree that this is what they are thinking. I totally do believe that they have Johnny's best interest in mind here and are doing what they believe is the right thing.

I personally just don't think it is the right thing to do and the situation was handled about as horribly as possible.

Owners are easy to blame. Jimmy wants to win - he is sitting on a even more of a gold mine if this team becomes relevant and he knows it.

It is a "play thing" for him.

I've truly not had any issues with any of our owners. They've spent money at a ridiculous pace trying to make this team better. I can't imagine how much money is going out to people who don't even work in the building anymore.

Farmer, as you stated, was a young up and comer that was very highly thought of. Miami tried to steal him away if I recall (wish they would have succeeded, lol).

Not sure how the coaching search went down and who did/did not accept an interview/offer. Pettine did do some good things last year, but for being a defensive genius what he has put on the field leaves a lot to be desired.

It's hard to tell if Haslam is a problem or not.

If he allows Scheiner to undermine Pettine and Farmer, that's a Haslam problem. But here's the rub, Pettine and Farmer have proven to be morons. Scheiner has proven to be smart in his core duties. Haslam probably finds himself gravitating toward Sheiner because he's the only one he trusts.

Please, please just blow it all up again. Pettine and Farmer are not good enough, not smart enough, not willing enough to get this turned around. Pettine is 2-13 in his last 15 games. That is almost unbelievable.

I don't usually agree with your takes, but I find it difficult to disagree with any points you made in this post...

Tough love, shock therapy, whatever you want to call it. Without knowing all the details, it seems to me that Manziel has been handled with kid gloves to date. It's high time for a rude awakening. The door is not closed on the kid but I suspect he is at the end of the plank...

I was so excited when Haslam took over, but I think you could be right about this.

If that is the case, I'm not sure if there will ever be a "fix."

It's frustrating.

In regards to the "quacks like a duck" take, I really do not feel a need to ferret out what the reasons are, or to be told the rest of this that Hartline and JT both mention. Even if I know exactly and got every specific nailed down about the latest JFF screwup, it would change nothing for me or the Browns. I think it would be best for this organization to divorce him and get a clean start.
Discipline meant changing behavior in a student in school. What message has been sent? Did it improve conduct? Seems JF's take is a fail again: Lesson is don't get caught. Hope he gets better, but I believe there is some line in the dirt where there is a limit as to what we owe him and his side of his deal with us. Just sorry to see the "answer to one" streak again.
We have other fish to fry. Many, many fish in fact. Enough daycare.

Is Gruden angling for a shot at being the HC of the Cleveland Browns?

That is a stretch to compare personal insults insults with calling the Browns the Clowns.

That's your opinion, and you are certainly welcome to it. I respectfully disagree. In both cases, there was frustration. In the case of calling Haslam, Banner, and Lombardi "Bozos", it was the result of a very specific action, taken by those 3 men. Calling the entire organization "Clowns", however, calls each and every member of the team, the coaching staff, scouting department, front office, and even the advertising people, all clowns.

For someone who vehemently protested picking up a national media refrain, in response to a very specific event, to call the whole team a derogatory name certainly appears to be hypocritical. You are, of course, perfectly free to disagree.

Sham, some of these guys live on this board! Check the post counts... So right or wrong, just be careful coming into a man's house and calling him out for stupidity or anything else that might humiliate him. Not saying you did or didn't do anything wrong, just saying.

Ytown is a good dude and usually a straight shooter. Just don't get him started on the bible or politics.

He isn't planning on coaching ANYWHERE. If he is, I'd be surprised. If he is and it's the Browns, I'd be floored.

And I still think he's overrated as hell.

Gruden is making something $6.5 million per year by ESPN. He also does commercials for Corona and Hooters. It will take the perfect situation to get him out of the booth and even that might not be enticing enough.

I was only wondering because he kinda made it sound like he was taking a personal interest in Manziel almost to the point of, but just falling short of saying he'd like to coach him.

Maybe I looked at it wrong.. anyway, Gruden took a team that that was built and made some adjustments on Offense and BOOM,, Superbowl. After that, nothing.

It won't happen but I'd take Gruden over Pettine. Gruden has an aura of being a winner.

Personally i think that's part of Gruden's personality/charm/style - he sort of gives a pretty personal slant on his takes. I like Gruden and certainly think he's a good coach.... the thing I would wonder is if his style and schtick would grow old on veterans and a team that had been under him for a few years ..... but no point wondering as I don't believe there is a chance in heck that he comes to join the Browns FO.

Now - the guy who MIGHT imo is Peyton Manning. Thru his connections with Haslam - imo he doesn't care for the Colts ownership so that's not a place to return to and I can't see him staying on in Denver. He's said he'd like to play next year - but I don't see Denver offering him anything and he's a long shot to start based on his deteriorating physical tools. He'd be a big gamble - but personally I think Manning has the right mental make up to move to FO and be a success.

jc

I see Chip Kelley going to Tenn to coach and be the GM.... and PM going to be their President of Operations.

The next Allstate Commercial.... that Chip Kelley has got to go"

That's an interesting way of looking at it, but I don't know if he would leave his cushy job to jump on our perpetually sinking ship or not? But now that you said what you said, hmmmmmm, I wonder!

_______________________________________


'Browns facing another Manziel decision, and soon'

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

Posted by Zac Jackson on December 1, 2015, 2:35 AM EST

Just a week ago, Browns coach Mike Pettine finally got permission to publicly discipline Johnny Manziel.

The team released a statement last Tuesday that said Manziel had been demoted from starter to No. 3 quarterback for Monday night’s game against the Ravens. A follow-up report said Manziel had lied to Pettine and others about the video and photos that showed up on social media from his weekend off.

Now, the Browns probably have a few hours to decide if they want to make Manziel their starter again.

Nobody inside the team will get much sleep after the way the Browns lost to the Ravens, but Tuesday morning the Browns have to start getting ready for next Sunday’s game vs. the Bengals under the assumption that Josh McCown will not be available.

At 2-9, the Browns are clearly playing for next year. We don’t know who in the front office or coaching staff will be around then, but we’ll soon know if Pettine thinks Manziel deserves another shot to start.

McCown got hurt in the fourth quarter of Monday’s loss — that’s three times in McCown’s last three starts — and Pettine went to Austin Davis instead of Manziel. Davis had not previously played in a game with the Browns since being signed in September.

Manziel threw for a career-best 373 yards in a 30-9 loss at Pittsburgh on Nov. 15. It was his fifth career start and third this season, and the team announced two days later that he’d been named the starter for the rest of the season.

Despite the demotion, the Browns made Manziel active for the game vs. the Ravens. In only one of their previous 10 games had the Browns made three quarterbacks active. Last Wednesday, Pettine said Manziel was not at “a dead end” with the Browns and wouldn’t rule out the team going back to him.

But after talking about “a violation of trust,” Pettine’s next decision will reveal whether he was handing out a punishment or trying to get Manziel to learn a lesson.

Manziel will start the rest of the season.

They'll make the announcement today.

Then Johnny will get caught smiling in public by TMZ and Pettine will cut him.

Fix it.

This will be very interesting, indeed. At this point, I don't know what is best for the team, for Manziel. In his limited time Monday night, Davis looked pretty good...

The handling of Manziel from the very start has exposed all I need to know about the Brown's leadership.

JM should demand a trade and tell the Browns to stick it. Losers

Manziel is in no position to demand anything. He's under contract for 2 more years after this season.

What's the difference? Isn't the reason you hand out a punishment to try to get somebody to learn a lesson? It's not an "or" statement.

I think I know what the writer was trying to say... is that Pettine's next decision will determine if he was trying to get Manziel to get the point because he does believe he can be good... or he was setting the stage to make cutting him that much easier...

After the game, Pettine said that if McCown could play next week he would start. In other words, if his 1st string QB is able to play, he plays. Extrapolating from that, IMO, if his #1 can't play, his #2 gets the start. His #2 is Davis. If Davis sucks canal water or gets hurt, Manziel gets his shot at retribution. Seems simple to me.

j/c:

Great call by making Manziel 3rd string. We most likely lost the game because of such a pig-headed move. We have a reliable kicker who had not missed all season, but is known to not have a very strong leg.

So, what does Davis, Flip, and Pet do during the last drive? They use almost all of the play clock repeatedly and then Davis slides down instead of running out of bounds. Then, we run the ball up the middle before lining up for a 50+ yard FG.

Pure genius! I heard Steve Young comparing it to the HOF game type blunders.

Now you are telling lies? Did your God tell you it was okay to lie in order to win a debate on a message board?

Which is the point. Was Davis the #2 because he earned it or because Manziel was being punished? If it was because Manziel was being punished and the punishment was for 1 game, then Manziel will start.

Starting Davis would only solidify my belief that Pettine does not have, nor has he ever had, any intention of making Manziel the starter. Which is ironic because, according to the press, Manziel is not being punished for having a drink at his old college, he is being punished for lying and stating that the video might have been old... when, in fact, Pettine has lied repeatedly about having confidence in Manziel and being impressed with his improvement, etc... .

Actually, if you recall, our kicker made a 51 yard extra point earlier this year after a couple penalties on prior attempts. And judging by his kickoffs, he has plenty of leg. The kick got blocked because Shelton and Erving - our two first round picks - got blown up and pushed backwards.

I don't think Pettine was ever on board with taking Manziel, and after JM's disastrous first year, wrote him off. But really, what is he supposed to say when asked about Manziel ... "He's no good, flat out can't play in this league."? Not saying what you deep down believe is not the same as lying, its just good PR.

At this point I could care less who starts at QB for us. There is nothing about this lost season that says our QB play was the issue. Davis came in a played decent last night, he looked off defenders, found the open guy most of the time, hit a nice TD pass to Benji, in stride. McCown is done so either one of those two will be on the field and the other backing up. We still aren't winning. Our D is horrifically bad. A has-been qb, unknown receivers, an RB we cut were marching through us like a hot knife through butter.

Make QB an issue again come draft time, right now, what's the point?

No, he isn't right. mac, do you watch the games. The kick was incredibly low. The guy who blocked it was on the LOS and I don't think he even jumped.

Even the announcers knew that Koon did not have a very strong leg. I also think the extra point was 48 yards, but I could be wrong about that.

And why would you not want to get closer or even score a TD instead of wasting valuable time and having to kick a long FG. Some people hate Manziel so much that they make things up to defend the guy who made a mountain out of a mole hill.