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To carry on with your point, Manziel has looked pretty good this year.
This is simply the haters wanting to maintain their position that he sucks. I agree with Gruden. We need to keep the guy. I think he will become a good QB in this league. He's going to be in this league a lot longer than Mike Petine.
Mike is like Butch Davis. He allows his ego to interfere with making sound football decisions. If he didn't, he would have dumped his lap dog defensive coordinator about 3 games ago, not to mention this whole Manziel thing. Ego, or loyalty, Peen?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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This is simply the haters wanting to maintain their position that he sucks. I won't go so far as to say haters, but people just don't like him personally. They let that dislike of him be the deciding factor in whether or not he is any good. These are the same people who proclaim their love for McCown. While a great guy, he's a loser on the football field. Yet you have people wanting him to start next year. These are the same people who think Davis was better than Manziel in a handful of snaps the other night. These are the same people who "want to see what Davis has", but already know what Manziel has. Never mind there's more tape on Davis. But in these people's minds Davis can be good because he's a likeable guy. With most fans it's a personality contest. Browns fans LOVE losing. They love rooting for losers. They are so conditioned to it, they don't know anything else. It's not about winning with Pettine and Co., and it's not about winning with a lot of Browns fans. It's all a big personality contest.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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To carry on with your point, Manziel has looked pretty good this year.
This is simply the haters wanting to maintain their position that he sucks. I agree with Gruden. We need to keep the guy. I think he will become a good QB in this league. He's going to be in this league a lot longer than Mike Petine.
Mike is like Butch Davis. He allows his ego to interfere with making sound football decisions. If he didn't, he would have dumped his lap dog defensive coordinator about 3 games ago, not to mention this whole Manziel thing. Ego, or loyalty, Peen? Where's his loyalty to the Browns? Shouldn't that be where Pett's loyalty lies?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL
#GMSTRONG
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I was waiting for Pettine to say "gives us the best chance to win" Serious question. At this point in the season with our record, what do we gain by winning?
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Yeah, I am a troll. Even though I have had season tickets for over 30 years and joined the Browns board back in 2001. Oh, and I used to drive 600 miles one way to go the games for the last 5 years when I had season tix. But yeah.........I am a troll because I don't agree w/you.
I am impressed with your insight. Nice take. First, I admire your dedication and admire your courage for voicing opinions that are painfully true often times for diehard fans to make. Some are unfortunately not ready to maturely listen and think for themselves, but rather lash out. Sycophant.
#gmstrong
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL Terry Glenn?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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To carry on with your point, Manziel has looked pretty good this year.
This is simply the haters wanting to maintain their position that he sucks. I agree with Gruden. We need to keep the guy. I think he will become a good QB in this league. He's going to be in this league a lot longer than Mike Petine.
Mike is like Butch Davis. He allows his ego to interfere with making sound football decisions. If he didn't, he would have dumped his lap dog defensive coordinator about 3 games ago, not to mention this whole Manziel thing. Ego, or loyalty, Peen? Where's his loyalty to the Browns? Shouldn't that be where Pett's loyalty lies? Absolutely, Rish! Perhaps Pettine believes that (as opposed to the general consensus on here) O'Neil truly has the ability and that further time/players are all that is needed...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If they want to start Davis so be it. There is still a good chance that Johnny will develop and become a fine qb. Heck, if he keeps on this path and given his popularity, he may start making movies like Roman Gabriel, Joe Namath and Joe Kapp!!! Sky could be the limit for JM!! 
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Gilber started last week. He got knocked out of the game by a kicker who apparently gave him a concussion.
At this point, if he is healthy, they can play Gilber. Maybe he turns it up? What's to lose other than more games in a lost season?
I do have some other thoughts on this, though:
--I remember being ridiculed before the season because I questioned people who claimed that Gilber was going to have a breakout season. They had this blind faith in him. Meanwhile, they thought JM should be cut or traded to Dallas.
--Gilber has shown me nothing on the field. Manziel has actually improved on the field.
--Pet has said that Manziel is working hard this year. There are articles out there right now that speak as to how Gilber has a sense of entitlement and does not work hard. A teammate had to be restrained because of Gilber's poor attitude.
--Gilber says things like "I would rather sleep in than study film." Or, "we'll see," when asked if he was going to try and compete for a starting position this year. Can you imagine the outrage if JM had said such things? This board would blow up.
--Gilber was drafted higher than JM, yet he gets a pass from fans like you and Manziel gets criticized over and over and over.
The Devil is known for his deceitful ways. And the legend lives on.
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The general conclusion????  Wow!!!
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The general conclusion???? Wow!!! Is not the general consensus on here that O'Neil is not up to the task?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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You are correct. I misread your post. My apologies.
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You are correct. I misread your post. My apologies. None required. I can see that the second cup of coffee helped...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Heard that so often it sickens me, "Best Chance To Win" litany.
In light of our W-L record, and the crazy choices made in game planning, the miserably repetitive offense that remains a problem, and a defense that needs to go scheme-wise and to change the techniques to something that includes coverage and tackling as first priorities, I have about zero confidence and lost most of my respect for the decision makers telling me this. The way we decide may be a strength, but hasn't panned a bit of gold as far as eliminating much of the same crappy play that has cost us week in & out. We look great on paper and in meetings, I suspect, but look like crap on the field.
Losses are hard for any fan to take, but if you truly scrapped and were fundamentally sound, and coaches aggressively went after the opponent, then okay.
This has been like handing out Halloween candy at Unca Billy's Bargain Barn of Pigskin Victories. We struggle more with who we put out there against our own than the opponent. Was it Pogo? "We have met the enemy and they is us."
Good place to start the last leg of this death march of a season.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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He should run for office and get off our roster then? Just not sure he can.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Gilber started last week. He got knocked out of the game by a kicker who apparently gave him a concussion.
At this point, if he is healthy, they can play Gilber. Maybe he turns it up? What's to lose other than more games in a lost season?
I do have some other thoughts on this, though:
--I remember being ridiculed before the season because I questioned people who claimed that Gilber was going to have a breakout season. They had this blind faith in him. Meanwhile, they thought JM should be cut or traded to Dallas.
--Gilber has shown me nothing on the field. Manziel has actually improved on the field.
--Pet has said that Manziel is working hard this year. There are articles out there right now that speak as to how Gilber has a sense of entitlement and does not work hard. A teammate had to be restrained because of Gilber's poor attitude.
--Gilber says things like "I would rather sleep in than study film." Or, "we'll see," when asked if he was going to try and compete for a starting position this year. Can you imagine the outrage if JM had said such things? This board would blow up.
--Gilber was drafted higher than JM, yet he gets a pass from fans like you and Manziel gets criticized over and over and over.
The Devil is known for his deceitful ways. And the legend lives on. Vers, I might have missed it somewhere, but I have to ask. What's with always calling Gilbert "Gilber". Just curious if there's a meaning I missed along the way.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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If they want to start Davis so be it. There is still a good chance that Johnny will develop and become a fine qb. Heck, if he keeps on this path and given his popularity, he may start making movies like Roman Gabriel, Joe Namath and Joe Kapp!!! Sky could be the limit for JM!! Or he could be the main hobbit character in the next Lord of the Rings movie or the main elf in the next Santa movie. ;-)
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LOL........it's no big deal. tab started a thread about Gilbert this past summer. I think it is the one that is still up. He misspelled Gilbert's name in the thread title. He spelled it: Gilber.
For some reason, that just made me laugh. Not sure why, but I thought it looked funny. Then, it kinda reminded me of his game. He looks the part. He is big, sleek, fast, built, but there is just something lacking w/the guy.
I know it's kinda weird. It's not a big insult or anything. It just amuses me.
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Or, he could go to Dallas and become very successful, and the majority of posters on here will say "I always had his back and knew he would be good, if only we would have given him a chance."
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I remember when the Cavs had a shooting guard named Damon Jones, and a local announcer called him "Amon Ones" because he had "no D and no J". Funny stuff.
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Definitely. I just think his face looks like a hobbit's, so I couldn't pass up the movie connection.
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL Terry Glenn? LOL yeah, that's "HER" name He embarrassed the living hell out of Glenn.. But in the end, when he went on to be HC in Dallas, didn't Glenn end up going there for him? Can't remember, was it as a player or coach or both? EDIT: Just checked, he went to Dallas in 2003 for 4 years and Parcells went there in 2003. He was a player.. The miracle of the interweb LOL
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/03/15 11:54 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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That's why we ought to give him every opportunity to succeed. Why give up now and just throw it away? We've already put up with so much it may start to straighten out with his growing up. We could end up with Johnny NFL qb and Johnny Hollywood!!!
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LOL...........mean, but true.
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can't we least be a little excited to see more of his play?
I thought it would extend another week (Manziel punishment) but to think its so they can evaluate Davis??? ehhh the kid has been in this league quite a while and has many starts and film - I don't think its an imperative to start him so we can know him better.
He was out of football with a lot of Data on him. He is not going to be Tom Brady - at best he will be a Bridge QB ok. See what? that he knows our offense. He works hard and knows how to prepare.
But if this isn't just an extension of Manziel's punsishment cause one game was just too soon. Yeah if Davis looked like a complete bum maybe out of respect to the players and fans we would have had to start Manziel. But we decided to give him a complete start...and sit Manziel at least one more game.
I do expect the Davis negatives to come out and Manziel to start the 2nd half. Yeah they liked Davis supposedly when we got him. If they think of him as a potential Starting QB as in franchise QB...sorry that would be a mistake.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Yeah, I am a troll. Even though I have had season tickets for over 30 years and joined the Browns board back in 2001. Oh, and I used to drive 600 miles one way to go the games for the last 5 years when I had season tix. But yeah.........I am a troll because I don't agree w/you.
Take a hike.
Btw........don't tell me anything. You are so freaking biased when it comes to Manziel that I really don't wanna hear a freaking word that comes out of your mouth. There was another option other than troll but I guess you really and truly believe that none of this is poor misunderstood Johnny Manziel's fault and it's all a grand conspiracy to keep him down. In fact, I think the team deliberately drafted him just so they could ruin his career. They were going to take a player that could help us win but they choose him because they didn't like his personality from afar and didn't want to take the chance that he might be successful somewhere. They wanted to make sure he failed and where better than here. This isn't a Manziel thread though, so I'll leave it at that and re-iterate that I thought Davis looked like the game wasn't too big for him and he threw a nice ball for the most part. I'd like to see better decision making as that slide was clearly a bone headed play but in the end I'm more concerned with what he does in the pocket than what he does while running with the ball and that looked "okay". At this point okay is a huge improvement.
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So, is this just an audition for Davis to be our starting QB for next year? If he plays well enough in this weeks game, will that warrant him a start in next weeks game and if he continues to show "improvement" will he start the remaining games? If he plays well does that give the FO another reason to dump Manziel at the end of the season?
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sigh, i really done with this franchise and always trying to use retreads.
i hope that doesn't happen.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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sigh, i really done with this franchise and always trying to use retreads.
i hope that doesn't happen. Remember when we "all" thought Hoyer was the savior after he played like three games and then tore his ACL. That was awesome.
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To carry on with your point, Manziel has looked pretty good this year.
This is simply the haters wanting to maintain their position that he sucks. I agree with Gruden. We need to keep the guy. I think he will become a good QB in this league. He's going to be in this league a lot longer than Mike Petine.
Mike is like Butch Davis. He allows his ego to interfere with making sound football decisions. If he didn't, he would have dumped his lap dog defensive coordinator about 3 games ago, not to mention this whole Manziel thing. Who would he have put in at DC if he fired the current one? It would have to be a guy with similar experience, because you don't overhaul a scheme mid-season. Also, at least part of our defensive struggles have been due to injuries. I am not using that as the end all- be all excuse, but it does play a role. As far as Manziel, I have no problem with a coach benching a player who lies to his face. None at all. A coach who does so teaches the player ... what? That it is OK to have complete disregard for the team's rules and expectations? Asking a guy who was in rehab this past of-season to abstain from drinking and making a spectacle of himself is not unreasonable to me. I have no problem with keeping Manziel. (at this point, anyway) However, buying completely into a QB who may go out and get blasted the night before an important game is not the ideal. (romanticized stories from the past notwithstanding) The game is too hard today ... to complex and complicated for a guy to be anything but clearheaded when he is on the game. He owes that to his teammates. Manziel right now, seems to be concerned only about himself, and to think that he can get away with anything he wants. Maybe a little tough love is exactly what he needs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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yep.
i wonder what the success rate of back up/journey mans actually turning into franchise QB's is.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL Terry Glenn, IIRC. Glenn actually followed Parcells to the Patriots, when he went there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So, is this just an audition for Davis to be our starting QB for next year? If he plays well enough in this weeks game, will that warrant him a start in next weeks game and if he continues to show "improvement" will he start the remaining games? If he plays well does that give the FO another reason to dump Manziel at the end of the season?
I'm assuming that's the case. Or, maybe they want to make sure he's good enough to be #2 if they let Manziel go and draft a QB in 2016. With this front office and coaching staff, anybody's guess is as good as any other's.
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Or, maybe they want to make sure he's good enough to be #2 if they let Manziel go and draft a QB in 2016. That's my guess.
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL Terry Glenn, IIRC. Glenn actually followed Parcells to the Patriots, when he went there. Not really accurate. he was Drafted by the Pats and followed Parcells to the Cowboys. But yes, he followed parcells!
#GMSTRONG
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Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells are also coaches who won multiple Super Bowls.
I cannot imagine Manziel getting away with that with either one of those head coaches either. True.. Coughlin is a tough coach, so is Parcells. Remember Parcells calling a receiver he drafted from Ohio State,, Can't remember his name but Parcells call him "She" all the time LOL Terry Glenn, IIRC. Glenn actually followed Parcells to the Patriots, when he went there. Not really accurate. he was Drafted by the Pats and followed Parcells to the Cowboys. But yes, he followed parcells! Well ... I had the 1st part right anyway. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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sigh, i really done with this franchise and always trying to use retreads.
i hope that doesn't happen. Remember when we "all" thought Hoyer was the savior after he played like three games and then tore his ACL. That was awesome. .....And that time Holcomb was the savior after coming in playing well. Austin Davis is a nice backup QB to have the roster and that's it. If the Browns waste time in TC next year on a QB competition with Davis in the mix, I may run myself into a wall a la McCown in the Rams game.
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