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Swish you only have to look as far as the civil forfeiture laws you hate so much because of the lack of due process to see how they can bastardize tying gun control to the no fly list which also does not require due process.


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This is what I could see. I understand why you think they should notify everybody, but for a second assume they can't or don't want to.... I think the gun permit should trigger it.

You apply for a gun license, the no-fly and terror watch lists should be checked. If your name is on it, at that point, you get notified that your application is on hold for that reason. At which point you can either choose to defend or not defend. If you choose not to defend then your application is rejected. If you choose to defend, it should be a very quick process.


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i get that, but the process which i detailed would give people due process.

civil forfeiture laws are just shady as all hell. it's one reason i can trust a cop to even give me just a traffic ticket.

but i understand what you're saying.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
This is what I could see. I understand why you think they should notify everybody, but for a second assume they can't or don't want to.... I think the gun permit should trigger it.

You apply for a gun license, the no-fly and terror watch lists should be checked. If your name is on it, at that point, you get notified that your application is on hold for that reason. At which point you can either choose to defend or not defend. If you choose not to defend then your application is rejected. If you choose to defend, it should be a very quick process.


that would work.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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civil forfeiture laws and eminent domain laws to take private property are both HUGE problems in this country that get very little play..


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and that's why i've been saying we aren't a free country.

when the law allows cops and the feds to take people's possessions without so much as a warrant, that isn't freedom.

we're so worried about gun laws and don't even realize they can take it whenever they want in the first place.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Man I struggle with this..my good friend and I went to fly to Tel-Aviv. He found then he was on the list..Ended up the person it was intended for had the same name minus the middle initial.

Not only are they under no obligation to tell you..they wont and it was a nightmare for him to get off of the list. He travels a lot his livelihood depends on the ability to travel.

If I'd not seen with my own eyes/ears what happened to him I wouldve said bull.

DC...I think its more like guilty till proven innocent and how much can u afford to defend/prove youre self innocent..but I know you know why someone would word it the way I did, already.

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Quote:
and that's why i've been saying we aren't a free country.

Freedom is relative... nobody that lives under a government, which is everybody, isn't 100% free. There are laws and rules everybody must live by.... and yes, ours are getting more and more restrictive all the time.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
civil forfeiture laws and eminent domain laws to take private property are both HUGE problems in this country that get very little play..



Yes, whats going on with the police and sheriffs on the interstates, taking peoples money in the name of drug trafficking/forfeiture laws is disgusting.

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i understand that completely.

however, we've had so many laws throughout this history that shows we aren't free.

we have so many laws that are completely stupid.

for example: had this guy in my unit get a public intoxication charge.

we can't drink and drive. i agree with that, but the cops got him for walking from the bar back to the barracks while drunk.

well damn! should he asked the genie in the lamp for a magic carpet ride?

can't smoke in public. can't play your music too loud. hell, your homeboys can't even turn up in the car even if you're a DD because of open container laws.

i get human rights law, i even get SOME decently laws.

but a lot of laws we have on the books are some stupid trash.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
first: i think in this case, we probably shouldn't just let somebody own a gun until after an investigation is complete. i would be fine with a simple background check from this country and whatever country they come from, if they are foreign. that should take about the same amount of time as somebody going through the immigration process.

second: no attorney should be needed unless it's to appeal the ruling. if the federal government deems somebody on the list, the burden of proof should be on them.

third: see my immigration process answer in first.

fourth: absolutely. it's disgusting that people gotta find out when they buy a plane ticket that they are on a list. there should be some sort of notification that tells people as soon as they are put on the list. a text message, email, mail, something.


And every citizen would wind up on the no fly list to keep them from getting guns. I would still like to know how children, my wife, and even a cabinet member have wound up on that list.


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My good friend would like those answers also..

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thats extreme. but not surprising coming from you.

i'd like to know too. but all well, i still support obama on this.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
thats extreme. but not surprising coming from you.

i'd like to know too. but all well, i still support obama on this.


Of course it's extreme, but I could almost expect it from this administration. People wind up on the no fly list off of clerical errors to complete mistaken identity. Are you really sure you'd want an unelected federal government bureaucrat deciding who should have their rights as specified in the constitution?


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it's been like that since this country was founded.

so clearly you do, or you would've moved already.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Man not just that..what if you wanted to go see your family in Turkey..or your wife needs to go back home for an emergency situation and cant for years saywhat Like I said I struggle with this topic.

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nothing we do in life is perfect, nor will it please everybody.

my wife's family has a somewhat interesting history. i'm not gonna say it because nobody will believe me.

however, if my wife ended up on the list, as much as it would piss me off, i really couldn't be mad. i will certainly not act like i don't understand why.

just like my dumbass cousins who did the crap to the kurds, if i ended up on the list, i can't act surprised as to why.

hell, i'm shocked they even let me get a secret clearance.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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hell, i'm shocked they even let me get a secret clearance.

I went through this process, and my oldest boy is in intel and he has the highest clearance they give out for his job.

They do get nitpicky...and having to write your reasons/explanation out on paper was ridiculous to me.

Last edited by FBHO71; 12/07/15 03:19 PM.
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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
hell, i'm shocked they even let me get a secret clearance.

I went through this process, and my oldest boy is in intel and he has the highest clearance they give out.

They do get nitpicky...and having to write your reasons/explanation out on paper was ridiculous to me.


exactly.

with the clearance thing. i've seen people with screwed up history get clearances, and people with no history get denied.

but then when you see some of the reasonings(because they will you why you got denied) it makes ton of sense most of the time.

"most" being the key word, because just like everything else in the system, whether it's civilian or government, no system is perfect.


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We don't need no stinking gun control, we need terrorist control!

We can all own a gun to protect ourselves and this is a good Right we have. The only problem is the Government and it's Liberal supporters keep making "No Gun Zones" in a lame effort to dictate their wimpy views on the public. It falls in line with their need to Force Control on us. This is where we get slaughtered like Libs I mean sheep!

Get out the way and let a real man take care of himself already!

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Originally Posted By: Swish
"most" being the key word, because just like everything else in the system, whether it's civilian or government, no system is perfect.


Let's not forget that this system, even with a no fly list check, would not have stopped this guy from purchasing guns legally. The two rifles were either given or sold to him legally. You won't stop bad guys getting gun, no matter how draconian the laws, just like you won't stop drugs, no matter how draconian the laws.


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coming from a guy who needs a gardener to take care of his yard?

you can't even take care of your own house. hide under your patriot act blanket and let us liberals who are actually men tuck you in a night, son.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: Swish
"most" being the key word, because just like everything else in the system, whether it's civilian or government, no system is perfect.


Let's not forget that this system, even with a no fly list check, would not have stopped this guy from purchasing guns legally. The two rifles were either given or sold to him legally. You won't stop bad guys getting gun, no matter how draconian the laws, just like you won't stop drugs, no matter how draconian the laws.


yes, but we're talking in general.

and every time you post this, the only insane answer to this comment would be "so lets get rid of all the laws, since none of them work"

so since drug laws don't work, lets get rid of all of them, ok? i'm coming over to your work place right now to smoke a bowl in your cubicle.


Last edited by Swish; 12/07/15 03:28 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
coming from a guy who needs a gardener to take care of his yard?

you can't even take care of your own house. hide under your patriot act blanket and let us liberals who are actually men tuck you in a night, son.


That was a different Thread where we discussed Libby Men wanting to tuck other men in at night, stick to the subject, yo.

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grown men have to take care of boys. though.

did you do a background check on your gardener, or do you pay him under the table?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
i understand that completely.

however, we've had so many laws throughout this history that shows we aren't free.

we have so many laws that are completely stupid.

for example: had this guy in my unit get a public intoxication charge.

we can't drink and drive. i agree with that, but the cops got him for walking from the bar back to the barracks while drunk.

well damn! should he asked the genie in the lamp for a magic carpet ride?

can't smoke in public. can't play your music too loud. hell, your homeboys can't even turn up in the car even if you're a DD because of open container laws.

i get human rights law, i even get SOME decently laws.

but a lot of laws we have on the books are some stupid trash.

trust me, I know. Most of those stupid laws are for 2 reasons.

1. Some overzealous people made a fuss about stuff and now normal people can't do normal things because the government feels the need to protect us from ourselves.

2. Some people couldn't handle the freedom they were given and took things too far so they felt compelled to make laws.

When they make me king, a lot of that stuff is going to go away. tongue


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Didnt do a background check on my lawn care folks..other then the owner...whom I used to be neighbors with..I dont think the whole crew are here legally..

I did find it funny when I was sitting out back on the deck watching/reading my paper. One of his workers made the comment it must be nice to live this way and sit back and watch over us doing our work, in spanish to a couple other workers.

I speak fluent spanish..lets just say what I said wasnt nice but I answered in spanish and caught him off gaurd..The owner/my old neighbor and friend gave him a chewing out and apologized for the guy embarassing him.

Then I paid him in cash so it helps him out on his taxable income at the end of the year tongue poke

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
coming from a guy who needs a gardener to take care of his yard?

you can't even take care of your own house. hide under your patriot act blanket and let us liberals who are actually men tuck you in a night, son.


That was a different Thread where we discussed Libby Men wanting to tuck other men in at night, stick to the subject, yo.


Libby men sound kinda pervy.

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.

Last edited by Swish; 12/07/15 04:36 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
coming from a guy who needs a gardener to take care of his yard?

you can't even take care of your own house. hide under your patriot act blanket and let us liberals who are actually men tuck you in a night, son.


That was a different Thread where we discussed Libby Men wanting to tuck other men in at night, stick to the subject, yo.


Libby men sound kinda pervy.


Never Mind You! flamingmad

Just had a fight with Swish and the Testosterone is high!
Wife's doin' laundry, but not for long! wink

Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 12/07/15 04:36 PM.
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I put in pictures of liberal men...this was the first to come up in my browser
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDOtJiio6HOyGdrgrxmOYZIhdkP03OAefiFfYmM_wCimqwqY4qVw

Put in pictures of conservative pedo and got nothing poke

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I don't see a site, you talking scrapbook?

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Link works for me..pasted the link into google and the pic pops up

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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
Link works for me..pasted the link into google and the pic pops up


Oh, link works for me now...
https://www.google.com/search?q=mod+squa...KHdfvB1oQsAQIGw

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Thats not the pic I posted the link to superconfused

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Since the other thread is locked, I wanted to say that I was wrong. In the "another mass shooting" thread, I stated that this white house would never call this an act of terror. I was wrong.

My faith is shaky but I'm feeling a slight bit hopeful we may actually address this issue.

Due to a family Christmas party, I was unable to watch the address so I am not sure the terms that were used. News is encouraging that the powers that be finally admit that radical islamic terror has finally dirtied American soil.


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I can't support anyone that wants to take guns out of the hands of Americans.

I can however support tougher rules to get a gun permit.

The best you can hope for is that some nut like the guy in colorado gets stopped from getting guns legally. Problem is, he can still buy them illegally.

That might be a good place to start.


#GMSTRONG

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Not to be mean...buuuuttt....di you just read what you wrote Daman willynilly poke

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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
Not to be mean...buuuuttt....di you just read what you wrote Daman willynilly poke


Not to be mean, but what the heck do you mean.,.


#GMSTRONG

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No problem Daman...I thought your post contradicted yourself??

I can't support anyone that wants to take guns out of the hands of Americans.

I can however support tougher rules to get a gun permit.

The best you can hope for is that some nut like the guy in colorado gets stopped from getting guns legally. Problem is, he can still buy them illegally.

That might be a good place to start.

That read like a contradiction..

How would -- tougher rules to get a gun permit. Do anything??

I like you man so if i misread or maybe I didnt understand what you meant..could totally be me superconfused

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