DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Case for Keeping Them

Based on the "pass/fail" criterion, you are correct. Throw in other factors such as time mismanagement, personnel mismanagement (e.g. Bowe), morale, etc, and you have a perfect storm. I see no way that the coaching staff (either whole or in part) survives this mess. A better question than "Who", may be "When"?

As of yesterday DURING the game, there isn't a case to be made to keep anyone.

That's a big bang.

O'Neil was doing his moping by the Gatorade as he usually does. That mentorship has turned into 'frenemy' status since training camp.

I noticed this during the Chargers game I was at. I thought it was very weird. How many defensive coordinators just go off on their own like that?

Diesel has been saying none of the coaches talk when he goes to games. He says Pettine doesn't say a word to anyone. That is so weird.

Meanwhile, FOX broke to Cincy's sideline as a coach was "coaching" up his guys and talked about how awesome their sideline communication is.

j/c

A case for keeping them? At this point there's not even a 6-pack for keeping them. Not even a 40 oz'er for keeping them?

No. The Browns have 2 rushing TD's this year.

I have watched my share of football, perhaps not as much as some, and I have never seen that. ...let alone consistently as with O'Neil.

Thanks for that correction.

Only the ones who are lost and confused and unable to make adjustments based on what offenses are doing against us...

Yup you get it Dub, and good for you. Most of the folks on here DON’T sad to say.

It is the heart of the problem, but I have learned that most folks and including the current regime (again sad to say) don’t get it at all.

Continuity comes from the roster, NOT from the FO, nor the coaching staff. Please folks think.

Vers gets it, and so does ChargerDawg, saw a post by him where he basically reworked my words but the heart of it is what I said, so he gets it.

But there are examples of what I have said out there. Let’s look at Philly this year for example. Chip flipped the roster and the team went from 10-6 I think 2 years running to a team that is really struggling, and then they blow out NE and you have to pause and ask why did the team regress so much and it’s because so much of the roster changed and they lost the key to winning player/roster continuity. THAT IS THE KEY.

Point being he regressed but as the players began to become familiar with playing and working together its starting to turn around, but if they hatchet it again this off season will see similar results to what we have seen here year in and year out.

The Steelers via BC retirement never missed a beat I think they changed out the OC the year Tomlin came in but the roster remain intact, so the winning ways continued. They change out players but not wholesale changes.

But the damage is done here so to speak, the youngsters we had are gone replaced by older higher priced guys. The mistake made was not getting these guys signed up in advance of the opening of FA.

Let’s look at it this way Gipson for example, why haven’t we tried to sign him up BEFORE the season closes? With the issues we have with winning the way you KEEP young talent is you sign them up early if you wait for the season to close you’ll never get them resigned, because who in their right mind would get through the season and resign here? We don’t commit to our young players and we lose them and the continuity so many cherish.

Now as is Text has stripped away most of the young talent we had here, and this off season will see that continue. I think it’s going to get worse before it ever gets better, because of what Text has done to this roster.

As you pointed out Dub we are about to rinse and repeat. Banner had it oh so right when he came here. He took a wait and see approach most of us who had sense that is looked at what he was doing and applauded because he did take a wait and see approach. But when he was gone out came the hatchet and the youngsters were gone.

When we STOP making changes for the sake of change and begin to build on what we have/had will get better until then I think we are in for more of the same. The sad part is I believe it’s too late the horse is gone.

But I’m glad to see some of you get it. Hire a GM that will build on what’s here Haslam and we got a shot hatchet job it again and the pain will continue.

https://twitter.com/KenCarman

Browns-for-now coach Mike Pettine says team isn’t unified


Posted by Darin Gantt on December 8, 2015, 10:34 AM EST

Now that the Browns have clinched yet another 10-loss season — their 13th in 17 years since returning to Cleveland — it occurs to coach Mike Pettine that the problems might be bigger than him or his staff or his quarterback of the week.

The Browns-for-now head coach said Monday the problems were systemic, such that that hasn’t been apparent for the last decade or so.

“We have to be brutally honest with ourselves and brutally honest not just looking in the mirror but to other parts of the building as well because if you’re going to be successful, your building has to be unified,” Pettine said, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “That’s a big part of it. That’s where the plan starts, and that to me hopefully will drive what changes need to be made.

“Sometimes you fall into the trap of ‘Let’s just make change.’ Well, let’s make damn sure the changes we’re making are the right ones that are going to get this ship turned and headed in the right direction.”

Of course, Pettine’s likely to get caught in the next wave of changes, whenever they happen. And he’s certainly smart enough to know that, which might be why he’s speaking openly about the problems.

Asked if the organization was unified at the moment, he replied: “It’s hard to be at this point. It’s human nature. When things don’t go well, everybody has a tendency to kind of bunker in and get into that mode. I think we all want what’s best for the Cleveland Browns. We all have ideas on how to get it done, and we need to be collaborative and we need to make sure that we’re picking the best ideas and pushing those agendas moving forward.

“I can’t sit here and say, ‘Absolutely, we’re all on board, 100 percent.’ That’s not reality because when things don’t go well, everybody has their opinions and their reasons why, but it’s going to come down to a brutal self-assessment and to be able to have the strength to make tough decisions and trust them and move forward.”

Of course, there’s also a strong measure of rear-covering going on there, as Pettine’s going to eventually be looking for work someplace else (like most coaches everywhere), so establishing that it’s not all on his staff is a prudent play.

He wouldn’t get into specifics or whether the problems were with owner Jimmy Haslam, team president Alec Scheiner or general manager Ray Farmer.

“When you have the record that we have, if there’s not tension in the building, there’s a problem,” he said. “That’s what losing does to you. When you’re paid to be successful, when you’re paid to win in a bottom-line business and we’re not, of course there’s going to be tension. When you have passionate, competitive people that want to get it done right and it’s not, there’s going to be.

“It’s part of it, but we have to make sure that we stay very clear-headed with it. It goes back to an accurate assessment of, ‘What are our problems?’ I said it yesterday. If you’ve got a problem with your heart, you don’t perform a lobotomy, so you’ve got to make sure we identify what the exact problems are and get them fixed.”

Of course, it’s unclear if either procedure can fix what ails the franchise. Perhaps the best place to start might be with a good enema.
link

Lack of unity on a team is a direct reflection of leadership. I'm not even saying that Pettine is a BAD leader, I just think the team doesn't know who the leader is... is it Pettine? Is it Farmer? Is it Scheiner? Is it Haslam?

I think the team is well aware that those above them are not on the same page and they are unsure who to follow....

Covering thy butt... Typical. That's all I needed to hear. Pettine has never taken ownership of his decisions that have cost us games.

So tired of these never before brand spanking new NFL HC's coming in here claiming they know what it takes to create a winning system and attitude when they don't even have a clue how to instill confidence. Another wasted 2 years with an inexperienced HC.

This team has regressed. Lost 15 of 17 games.no one is on the same
Page on anything.
There even isn't a solid core of players you can build around.

When in doubt, look to the guy who signs your paycheque...

Saw that earlier and was cracking up. I can actually picture Ken Carman doing that.

You know that fan is going to call in, along with the hire Tressel, hire Cowher, make Ozzie an owner fan.

You forgot the hire Bernie as the GM/QB coach fan.

Wow! That is some strong stuff.

I don't think anyone can still question if the Browns are dysfunctional, can they?

Let me translate Pettine revealing the team's dirty laundry:

"We do suck, but it's not all my fault. It's Ray and Alec and Jimmy too."

"I am willing to make the hard decisions like never play Manziel again. The rest of these guys aren't."

"Please don't fire me. These things take time. O'Neil's not bad, he just needs more time. Just look at Cincy with how long they've been together."

Has anyone ever heard Pettine once say "yeah, it's on me"? I've never heard him take accountability for anything.

His recent quotes reveal what we already know. The entire team is at war. They also reveal he wants nothing to do with Manziel. It's funny because I seriously doubt his "hard decisions" include firing O'Neil.

Thanks!! You saved me a phone call...

Maurice Jones-Drew
Writer | NFL.com
+ Follow On Twitter

Now, it's a four-game test for Pettine, others
All season, Mike Pettine is hesitant to play Johnny Manziel, and it looks like the team has quit on him. The Browns have lost seven straight games, and some have been blowouts. I don't think that all of a sudden Johnny's punishment is ending. I think someone from higher up is telling Pettine to play Manziel. This is a four-game test for Johnny, Pettine and GM Ray Farmer. If Johnny looks good and wins a few games, it's on Pettine for holding him back and not playing him.


Ike Taylor
Writer | NFL.com
+ Follow On Twitter

Constant QB issues leaves Pettine's future in question
The quarterback controversy in Cleveland has Mike Pettine in hot water. They keep riding the quarterback carousel -- having three different starters this season -- and haven't established anything permanent. I understand why Johnny Manziel has been in and out of the lineup with his off-the-field decisions, but on the field, he's gotten a lot better this season.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...in-hottest-seat

This assumes that Pettine not playing him is what has been holding him back.

I seem to recall last season when there was speculation the hire ups were pressuring Pettine to play him when Hoyer started his death spiral. Turns out Pet was the one who was right not to.

I've noticed that when the camera is on him he's never talking to anyone. Belichick is always in someone's ear about something. Of course Belichick cares. He hates losing. Pettine is #Satisfied

You cannot possibly believe that Pettine is satisfied with losing.

Agreed Mac it sure don't look good.. The roster strip down via Text is the most damaging part.

If someone set out to destroy the future of this team they couldn't have done more damage then what Text has done. I think the team and Pet were his victims...

Sad Sad Sad

Hire Bernie if nothing else his heart is in the right place.....

You can read what you want into the highlighted part, and possibly you may be correct. However, if you read it without bias, then you can readily see that he is not saying that the "building" lacks unity...

Weren't you the one who said before the season started this was the most talented team in years?

I dont believe that at all. Do you really believe anyone in the organization is satisfied with how the season has gone?

I hardly think so. He predicted a 2-14 record this season.

Unless I missed something you may be thinking of someone else.

So, you only ever see him when some random TV producer decides to randomly cut to a shot of him and that is enough for you to make the insane leaps to these conclusions??

Are you actually serious with that???