DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam calls a meeting after Bengals game

When it comes to handling Manziel, I'm going to trust Pettine on this because the fact of the matter is that HE was right about him last season. He knew Manziel wasn't worth putting on the field, and took a ton of flak for not playing him. Johnny takes the field in Cincy and we all saw what happened.

Columbusdawg, last season Pettine had the "hands off, do what you want" policy with Manziel and look what happened. Maybe Pet can stop acting like his daddy when Johnny can stop acting like a little boy. I know you keep blaming them for making Johnny lie (I still don't see how) but the fact that he was given the job and the opportunity to be the guy you and others hope he can be, and he couldn't keep his word? And wasn't man enough to be honest???

I know you blame Pet's ego, but let me float this out to you as a possibility to consider: quite possibly in Johnny's evaluation, Pet has seen that physical ability and talent aren't likely to be what holds him back. It's the other things required of your franchise guy: the maturity, leadership, dedication, etc... the things that Johhny obviously lacks. And I've said it before, it's been no secret what Pet has stated about his expectation of what a franchise QB should be. If Pet's ego was the issue, and he really didn't want Manziel around, why in the world would he be spending so much time on him?

Look at Gilbert. By some recent accounts, the kid doesn't care a rats arse about football. Consequently he's been benched all year. I think the only reason they gave him a shot at KR was to hopefully spark some kind o interest in him. I don't think there's anything to indicate that Pet has spent anywhere near the same amount of time on him as he has Johnny. I'll be shocked if Gilbert is on the roster next year.

Wow, Daddy wanted to get rid of him. Shocker. I don't think I'd use anything that Mike wanted to do as a positive as he has done absolutely nothing positive with this team. He is a high school level coach at best, his ego cannot handle players not doing exactly as he says. May work in high school and college, but not in the pros.

Good post devil.

I agree with you on Pettine, but I gave you a clear example of this not being Manziel "second chance."

He was certainly not ready, will not disagree with that. It was a really tough situation - Hoyer was playing horrid and we had JFF on the bench with people clamoring for him to play. I was one of them, and I was wrong. He should have never been put in.


It is not Mikes place to do this IMO. What Johnny does on his free time is his business.


I don't think it is all Mikes ego, I think he is just an absolutely horrible coach. I've stated his heart may be in the right place, but it isn't his place to worry about what Johnny is doing on his off week. Mike should have been concentrating on fixing issues with the defense, figuring out how to keep our guys from making stupid penalties at inopportune times, and trying to fix the o-line. I'm not too certain I would trust his ability to determine the best players, lol. #satisfied


Can't disagree with that.

Sorry, I missed it. How is this season not his second chance? he went to rehab and by all accounts is working much harder.

I would agree with you that helping Johnny learn to be a man in his off time is NOT part of Pet's job... and it shouldn't be. But again, look what happened last year when Pet didn't take a more direct interest in Johnny. To say Johnny wasn't ready to see the field is an understatement (and I think you'd agree). I think Pet would give anything to not have to deal with that side of things. Seems he's got a lot more to worry about.

I was one of the dawgs willing to forgive Johnny for last season. And I still do, but when I see some of the same issues pop back up when they aren't supposed to be an issue anymore? I think it only reasonable to at least raise an eye brow.

What has popped back up? Is he not putting in any effort while in Berea? That is what matters IMO.

The only 2 "issues" he has had this season are his drunk girlfriend (who he needs to get rid of IMO, but again his choice) tries to jump out of a moving car and he had some drinks on his vacation time. I'm actually much more worried about something going bad due to the girl he is with than him going to a bar in Texas on vacation, but to me those worries are not part of the head coaches job, nor should he make it a priority of his job. I have no problem with him voicing his displeasure of his actions at all, but to demote due to it is uncalled for. Just my highly disliked opinion

Yeah, the car incident I didn't put much stock in, but honestly I'm kind of biased... I deal with that kind of BS all the time.

But look, I don't blame Pet for being concerned about the impact of Johnny's lack of maturity (real, perceived, or potential). My guess is that while he's made improvement in terms of his play and field development, there are still some issues with maturity that we haven't heard about. Remember, up until the Cincy game, no one knew anything about his lack of game prep and effort. So while you and Vers are upset about how this went down, I think it more likely that Johnny was being tested that weekend and the 'rules' were specific to his behaviors that have been a problem.

Just thinking long term, IF, and IF God has stopped hating the Browns and Johhny is supposed to be our Moses, then I'd rather Pet be taking an interest in the other areas that he needs to improve to be successful vs. having a talented guy come in, waste that talent and opportunity because he doesn't have the maturity or self awareness to realize he his, and become Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell/you pick him 2.0

I will agree that Pet has other issues that concern me. It's just right now on this specific one, I think he's done the right thing and at least earned a bit of the benefit of the doubt in this tiny, fractional area.

jc

I think some of you are just pissed about the season sucking and projecting a lot of BS and conspiracy.

I"m on the record that I don't like Manziel or Pettine very much.

I still say Pettine is doing his best for Manziel. If there is one comment I have heard players say in their interviews about Pettine over and over again is that he means what he says. He backs his words up with action.

Pettine is playing the tough fatherly role as a coach. He demands his players be honest and upfront with him. He refuses to publically humiliate his players. The media gets really pissy because of that and projects a lot of nonsense.

There is no drama in the background other than everyone from the owner on down to the players being angry about a losing season. I'd actually be more upset if it looked like they just didn't care. Maybe some of them are getting a little bit desperate at this point and acting a bit out of line but to me Pettine has been behaving as his normal self and just doing things the way he thinks is right.

I don't know whose fault this terrible season is. I mean I have my ideas as to whose it is but no one on here has ANY proof of anything one way or another so why don't we all just chill out with the hate spewing words at each other if we can. I will do better to control myself as well =)

Are you serious???? I like you man, but you're crazy! You're crazy!

We all know this is the Thunderdome.. two dawgs enter, one dawg leaves type stuff... The true test of a fan is who is willing to destroy one of their own, and eat his/her still beating heart.

If you are looking at the whole picture (not just at the part that looks best), Manziel had several chances last season. He was woefully under prepared when given the chance to play last year. He also threw that party last year and then missed his treatment because of it (several teammates were also punished because of the after effects of this party). These are the things we know about.

Going to rehab does not erase what Manziel did. It was a step in the right direction. That's it.

Manziel is an idiot and a liar who can't get out of his own way. Pettine is an idiot and is in over his head. Farmer and is hiding somewhere hoping no one is noticing that he missed on two more first round picks.

J/C .....

I also have to wonder if Manziel isn't somehow distanced from his teammates. I remember a TD pass, after which he did not go and celebrate with his teammates, but rather he went off by himself and did a fist pump thing behind the bench. That was really concerning to me.I am not trying to read too much into stuff like that, but when a guy makes a big play and does not even try to celebrate with his teammates ....? I am not sure what that says about him, and his relationship with his teammates.

It may be nothing .... but I don't see him interacting with his teammates much, if at all. Like I said, maybe it's nothing .... but it sure looks a little odd to me.

And that is where our difference lies - I'm willing to forgive a 21 year old that makes stupid mistakes since he seems to have been heading in the right direction. You don't want to drop last year, and that is your choice. I know I made many, many idiotic decisions when I was 21 and 22, I guess no one else on here did and were then forgiven for those mistakes.


Manziel is an immature kid, which also many times translates to an idiot and a liar. It did for me, many times. It's not like he is lying about raping or beating women and hitting kids, he went out on his off time. No problem with that to me, stupid rules by stupid coaches that should have never been in place caused this whole issue.

He is an idiot cocky liar and immature kid. He will grow up, he will mature, and people will forget.

It might not be as unusual as you think. Where I work, a contract R&D organization, it's all about the project work. Some projects are long-term and high profile and more desirable to be assigned to. There are others that just dogs, destined to fail due to the client, unreasonable budget/deadline, etc.

Often times we need to do things on our own time (after work, weekends ... our time off, much like a bye week) in order to stay on top off things, look good, that kind of thing. It's an understanding that we will do what is needed in order to be successful. We need that to keep winning contracts.

If we don't, which does not break any laws, then we are not assigned to the more important projects. We are not being proactive and accountable and not doing what is expected of us in our role. In essence, we get benched. It shows our management that we cannot be relied on doing what we need to do in order to be successful.

If we agree to do these things, and then don't do them, that's bad enough. If we lie about later, that's much worse.

I still don't know what all happened with JFF. If there was an understanding between him and management that he not party and instead prepare for the remainder of the season, then I get why he was benched. He did not live up to an agreement with his superiors and then lied about it.

If there was no such understanding or agreement, then the benching makes no sense. Deal with the lying some other way.

Face it, when you drafted this circus you lose the right to whine about the attention and drama.

I am one that doesn't agree that it's no big deal. It's not that he had a couple of drinks.. it's that he was dumb enough to be in a position to have it posted online and then lie about it to his coach.

I own a software consulting firm, so I completely understand what you are saying. I've also stated that I am a workaholic and would never in a million years do what Johnny does, it isn't in my makeup. That said, super talented people get a way with more than those who are not. I've worked with many software developers that are complete ass hats, do things they shouldn't, aren't as reliable as they should be but are so talented that it is often overlooked. Now, whether JFF is talented is still up for debate, he was however drafted in the first round, which means someone thought talent was there. Like it or not, super talented people can get away with more than those that are not. It is true in any job, but especially professional sports.


It does seem as if there was an agreement, but as I've stated that agreement should have never been there in the first place IMO.


Exactly. I didn't want the guy because of that very reason (and I don't think he has the skills to succeed in the NFL), however I am going to stick up for him in part because of what you just stated there. We knew what we drafted, deal with it - apparently Pettine cannot.

And he was put in that position by a dumb coach that thinks he is running a high school team. Those stipulations should have never, ever been put on him in the first place.

Sorry, can't agree.

No problem my friend - I know I am in the minority on this one.

That he is an adult?

well....really nothing else to say.

he didn't break the law, or get in trouble from the nfl. and he put himself into rehab.

with all that taken into account, the only way manziel should be losing a starting spot is by on-the-field play.

we need to see if this kid is worth keeping, that way we can go into the draft and get some actual weapons.

So, an employer/manager shouldn't ever tell an employee to keep their behavior under control when they are in public and pretty much one of the faces of the company??




Every CEO, ever, that has ever taken employees to a trade show/conference disagrees with you up one side and down the other.

Being in the HR Recruiting field for 41 years now, I can say, without a doubt that today, Social Media pages of prospective candidates are reviewed by many employers before offers are made.

Employers review facebook, twitter, linkedin and when it was relevant, myspace pages (as well as some I'm not aware of I suppose) to see what their potential new employees are up to.

I would not be surprised if some employers regularly review the social media pages of current employees as well.

People can believe whatever they want, but reality says, employers can and will decide to terminate or discipline employees because of bad or unacceptable social behavior.

Anything that can effect their business comes under watch and they have every right to do so.

I agree with that prp, but what he did would get very few people fired from a job. He went to a bar and had some drinks of which pictures were taken. I've got just as many pictures of me floating around the internet during our tailgates of taking shots, drinking beers, etc. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is certainly something that other players did during their off time. Johnny, for whatever reason, is a huge celebrity and will have people snapping pictures of him no matter what he is doing.

Now, if he were running around the bar naked trying to rip clothes off of women, I can see how that would be embarrassing to the organization. Having some drinks in a bar and having your picture taken? I think a lot of the NFL would be unemployed if it were a rule enacted for all players.

And Manziel is one of them.

Yep, we always review social media pages of potential candidates and have not held interviews due to some of what is on their pages. If people have pictures of themselves drinking at a party, typically it doesn't really affect the decision. If that is all they have, then it probably will. What we look for the most is if they are calling out their current employer in derogatory fashion - it astounds me how many people do this! You can also determine what types of people they associate with for the most part, which can also be helpful in evaluating.

That said, as I stated earlier, it all goes back to talent. Talented people, right or wrong, get the benefit of the doubt. Now, I'm not saying Johnny is talented, I personally do not think he is good enough to make it in the NFL but I'd like to see. Chances are he will be gone or replaced next year and fade into the sunset. On the slight chance he is good, I can look past what he did on his free time.

I know a couple guys in RV sales that have been fired for getting a little too carried away after hours.
We are expected to maintain a certain level of appearance and behavior on and off the clock as we represent the company.
Much like JM this isnt in writing but it is expressed at the time of taking the position.

I can see that, but in this particular situation with Johnny being HIGHLY visible it takes on a different tilt.

He and his actions have a direct effect on the fortunes of the Browns both on and off the field. If he wins, of course, fans will be more likely to forgive and forget. It doesn't make it right but that's what will happen.

Example is Brett Favre. He drank heavy, partied like a wild man and nobody cared because he won games.

But in his declining years, he had some kinda dust up of a sexual nature and it caused him some problems and some embarrassment to his team (the Jets I think or was it the Vikes).

It's not unusual for fans such as you and I to want to disregard negative things in order to find out if the guy is any good. Doesn't make it right or wise.

I want to know if Johnny can get the job done like everyone else. And like you, I have serious doubts.

But for some to criticize Pettine, without having detailed info as to what, if any, deal was struck between the team and Manziel, seems to be out of bounds.

Just my opinion of course, but it's based on things I see everyday between employers and employees.

what part of "it's not what he did, but what he did after promising he wouldn't do it" is confusing?

His employer asked/instructed him to behave a certain way over the Bye, and he agreed and promised to adhere to that... .and then immediately did the exact opposite.

What employee WOULDN'T at the very least get written up for that??

I've never worked for anyone that put such an asinine rule into place. I'm sure I would be written up if I didn't obey, but I'd also be looking for another job the minute I was told I couldn't go to a bar on my vacation. It is the Browns rights as employers to do this, I certainly will not disagree with that. I just disagree that they put such stipulations into place.

Right. But the stipulations were in place and he chose to ignore them. How stupid is Manziel?

I don't think he is stupid, but rather an immature 22 year old. It was a very poor choice, no doubt. I've never disagreed with that.

Stupid and immature are synonyms in my book. There are many 22 year old people who make these sort of tough choices all the time.

there are also many 22 year olds who make the wrong choice.

some have to learn the hard way, others don't.

that doesn't make someone stupid.