DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 24 49ers 10 Austin Pasztor Starting at LG over Erving

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN

Is this the guy that played after Erving was benched? If so, Manziel is gonna get killed. I'm well aware the Erving played poorly, but hell, keep him in and give him reps at this point. I think Erving's replacement was even worse.

So we drafted another project in the first round, basically.

Yep, Austin was the guy who indeed replaced Erving.

I think they want to see what they have in Austin, because it's clear Erving needs work outside the building and is a huge, huge liability.

Sad though, another first rounder that hasn't panned out. But then again, playing him at guard spots and tackle was likely a stupid way to have handled a rookie, despite his versatility he demonstrated in college.

It's bad all around IMO.

I think that it is obvious that Erving is going to be a major project, who needs to do the very thing he has never done in his career .... that is, put in the work in the weight room, to improve his strength.

And his greatest upside at the moment looks like being a replacement for Alex Mack at center.

1st round picks spent on O-linemen should be plug and play players. Not freaking projects.

Another shot across Farmer's bow by the USS Pettine?

Translation: Jimmy, I'm doing the best I can with what your inept GM gave me to work with.

Whether Pettine is right/wrong, this is exactly what I think he is doing. Trying to position himself to retain his job.

I guess you can't blame him for wanting to stay employed on one hand...

look on the bright side, at least we drafted like a brown

Glad we drafted that backup center in the first round for depth.

but....but


“You can’t follow the same road map and get to a different destination,” Farmer said. “In my mind it comes down to we do things a little bit differently than people have done historically. With no risk comes no reward.”

Why can't we just commit to Erving, mistakes and all, and let him play?

Isn't that how you develop and make players better?

This whole stupid notion of benching guys for every mistake is just asinine. This whole notion of playing the guys that "practice" better that week is so high school-ish.

And this also comes across as a desperate attempt to say "hey look, it's not me, it's Ray".

I cannot wait to dump these guys. I have never felt such raw anger toward any regime before.

Erving is so bad that he affects the entire team. Like we can't even run offensive plays type of bad.

If we are going to get a true evaluation of Manziel (which we won't be able to do in four games), then Erving can't be in there.

I don't agree with this. Austin played worse than Erving, in the limited plays he was in.

Let me reiterate, Erving overall had a bad game.... But not every snap was bad. I saw him pancake a DL, handle pass rush attempts as well. I agree with Rish, I'd rather see him get more game reps, not mental reps.

To be honest, I wasn't watching the game when Erving was benched. I switched to the Red Zone Channel at the start of the fourth quarter.

If what you say is true (about Pasztor (can we get him to get rid of the 's' or the 'z,' both aren't necessary) being worse than Erving), then Erving needs to be playing.

Would anybody be shocked if Pettine was just doing this to stick it to Farmer (again)?

I honestly have the utmost respect for you guys left in here discussing this mess. I've chosen exile and can just laugh at the Browns to keep me from getting mad.

Here's what I said about the Erving pick in May:

Greco is coming off a pretty good season at RG and Schwartz is an AVG RT.

Erving does have no chance to beat both imho unless this decision is already made. He should be nothing but a backup at OG, don't see his game translate to that position at all. He's strictly a C/RT for me with the best shot at C, but, as I said, a complete project there. At RT he will NOT upgrade on Schwartz, not even long term imho, much less for next season. He has already shown the same problems (vs speed, poor hand usage). Right now, he's a 6th OL, the very definition of an "insurance" selection. Could have found a player like that in FA, no need to invest a 1st on that profile.

His "versatility" is both his biggest strength and weakness, if that does make sense

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/952945/1

Fun thread, RB discussion and all (Crowell+West: "Name me a worse 1-2 depth chart at RB in the NFL")

Oh the delusion...

j/c:



https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN

At least he's not making excuses.

accountability. at least he has that going for him so far.

JC

I swear I am getting the feeling that Pet is not playing draft choices just to thumb his nose at Farmer and try to cover his arse.

Maybe he should sit Mack and let Irving play center. That would hurt Farmer more.

Tab, your getting confused with my posts about Johnny starting and now this one...

The Browns Board and confusion have one thing in common.

Pettine

I think it's smart to bench Erving. He has been getting killed. Absolutely destroyed.

The other guy wasn't great, but he was better. No sense in getting Johnny killed.

Totally disagree.

In fact, I think people are placing most of the blame on Pet's doorstep and excusing the piss=poor job that Farmer has done.

Before the season, several of us tried to tell you guys that the talent on this team was awful. We were ridiculed. I even mentioned that the "blame game" would begin in October. I was wrong about that. It started in September.

That is the problem when people overestimate a roster. When reality sets in, they feel compelled to blame someone else, and in this case, Pet is taking almost all of the blame for Farmer's miscues.

Now.............I think Pet has his own issues, but man, don't tell me guys like Erving, Gilbert, Shelton, etc are playing well and Pet is holding them back to spite Farmer. That is wrong. Dead wrong! Those guys suck!

And the only reason I am making such a big deal of this is because I still care about the Browns, even if I don't want to. Firing Pet and keeping Farmer will be a huge, huge mistake.

Fire them both for all I care, but to excuse Farmer's transactions by blaming Pet for everything would be a disaster of epic proportions.

But he was a number one pick..

Brandon Weeden approves of that post.

I feel better now

Nobody is excusing farmer. Stop making stuff up.

Both of them are trash.

Farmer is trash. Pettine is trash.

Alex is trash. And haslam is trash.

As a matter of fact, the some of the color schemes of the uniform is trash.

But stop making things up. I haven't seen but maybe two people on the entire board give farmer a pass.

But you consistently give pettine excuse when the fact of the matter is he sucks, just like all the coaches before him.

Yep, that's good old Farmer for ya.... Thinks everyone else is an idiot and believes himself to be a genius.... HUGE ego.

I would LOVE it if we just hired a good solid meat and potato's GM. A guy that gets more right than wrong. A guy that selects actual football players in the first couple rounds. Is that really asking too much?

Not me man, I want them BOTH gone. I've been learly of Farmer from day one. He must go right along with Pettine and company.
From the equipment manager(our helmets fly off WAY to often) to the strength coach(we get pushed around on both sides of the ball) to the offensive and defensive staff(pitiful in almost every area) and the head coach(man there are way too many times this dude has brain farts at crucial moments). Everyone must go, collect your stuff and buh bye.

You know how I felt about Mangini. Well, these guys make him look GOOD. NEVER though that would come out of these fingers man..... Holy crap is this team just flat out BAD. Can't stop the run. NO pass rush at ALL. NONE. We get blasted off the line on both sides of the ball. Farmers bad, Pettine is bad, everyone is bad. I'd fire the ball boys(kidding). But close to it.... When the stench is this bad, everyone must go.

As do I. He's a rookie, and playing out-of-position.
From what I have read, he's got the will, the mental makeup, to be good. Play him as he is likely the best alternative to Bitonio...

Unfortunately, I have also read that he has an aversion to working hard in the weight room. That just doesn't work for an interior lineman.

I just don't now how this team has managed to draft so many players with such major flaws. Gilbert doesn't seem to want to work hard ..... Erving doesn't like to work in the weight room .... Manziel has issues that will continue to cause him problems if he doesn't get them under control ..... Richardson ... I don't know what happened to him. He seemed to just stop working ..... Ugh.

People complained about Mangini's one draft, but we still have a player from that draft, who contributes in a major way to this team. There are still a couple of other players from that draft still in the league as well .... or at least were earlier this season. He may have made mistakes, but at least he got the 1st rounder right.

*Sigh*

I don't disagree with this... but I don't recall saying Erving was playing well and how did Shelton etc get involved in my quote

All I was doing was comparing Erving with Pasztor and from what I saw Erving was the better option. That is all nothing more.

Where did you read that? I'm surprised. He put up 30 reps of 225 with those long arms at the combine. He shows good power in the run game but awful technique in pass pro that puts him on skates.

No one is going to call him out directly, but you can put a picture together when you read what people say about him .....

There was another article that was a little more direct as far as the issue, but I cannot find it right now. Here are a couple referencing the fact that he needs to get stronger.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/cleveland_browns_cameron_ervin.html

It was a reference going back to High School, but that wasn't that long ago.

The article also quotes Mark Schlereth, who called him "Weak as a kitten." I saw him get run over too often in the Bengals game. I know that he was going against really good players, but man, it was horrible to watch.

Also ....

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2015/...-prove-himself/

Erving was overpowered at times during his starts and said the coaches have told him he needs to get stronger.
“Mentally and physically,” he said.
Bitonio expects Erving to be committed to the weight room in the offseason and said he will be able to make significant strides in gaining strength.
“It’s also functional strength ‘cause if your feet are off-balance or you’re mismatched alignment, it throws off how you can use your strength,” Bitonio said. “Joe Thomas isn’t the strongest person in the world, but he’s technically so sound that his strength, functional strength, (is good). Cam has some strength to him. It’s just putting the technique and the function behind it to make it work together.”

Cam Erving is a dang cream puff. I'm not trained to evaluate OL, but I can tell he's about 1/10th as strong as the average lineman. He gets shoved around like a rag doll and has little to no definition in any part of his body.

I'm not an Oline evaluation expert either, but Erving plays too high and upright too, which really allows for him to be overpowered. He needs to improve not only his strength, but there's seemingly a crap load of technique he needs to grasp.

Not bad and all, except that we made a first rounder outta that. We could have got someone equal/same in the later rounds IMO.

Bingo ! .. There in lies the rub ..