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I see no reason there cannot be establishments for smoking and non smoking. I would always choose to eat in a smoke free restauraunt, you can't tell me they wouldn't have done just fine on their own. If you prove to businesses they can profit from it, they will do it and many were starting to.
Good post Jules.. the problem is that the government tries to get out ahead of capitalism.... capitalism would fix a lot of it's own faults if left alone, the problem is that then the politicians wouldn't have anything to yell and scream about.. so they have to come in and fix it first, they aren't patient enough to allow it to reach it's own equilibrium, which it generally does. You are correct in that non-smoking establishments would have sprouted up and would have been popular and equilibrium would have been achieved, but the politicians (and to a large extent the people) weren't patient enough for that to work itself out.
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The truth is, the vast majority of people who voted never step foot in a bar,
That cracked me up because of it's truth... As long as Golden Corral and Cracker Barrell are smoke free, what are these people complaining about? 
yebat' Putin
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Holy crap, 3 or 4 packs a day? WoW, congrats on quitting!!  I smoke and I don't min d the smoking ban really b/c people who don't smoke doesn't need to smell it. If you don't smoke and can't stand the smell you shouldn't have to find somewhere else to eat or throw back some beers. But, for those that own their business I really think it should be up to them to allow it or not. Not big brother. With 2 kids I go outside or in my bedroom to smoke now and I do not and never will smoke in my car, so I am used to it by now. I does make me mad though that I can't light up in a bar where beer and smokes go hand and hand, but I respect the non-smokers who don't want to breathe that crap in.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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There is a big difference.
1st If your running a tab at the bar, you have to pay the Tab before you walk outside to smoke.
LMFAO.. What bar do you go to that you have to settle your bill before you go outside to smoke? If they have your card what do they care if you step outside for a conference with The Marlboro Man?
All the bars I know of, you leave your card and your tab with the beermaid, and when you want a smoke.. umm.. you signal the beermaid (Ah'll be back) and you leave your beer on the bar right where you are sitting.. and you go smoke.. then you come back.. all is well. Simple stuff...
Whats even sillier.. if you leave your seat to go pee.. you have to settle up? LMAO..
In fact, some of the bars I know of.. they add a 20% tip automatically if you forget and leave the card there.
And the others I know of.. they trust you and you don't give your card to pay for the tab until you're finished for the night
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2nd Every time you run outside to smoke in a crowded bar, your going to lose your seat.
You're going to the wrong places. Pfft.. crowded bars.. I like to walk in and by the time I get to an empty seat at the bar.. my beer is already waiting for me and the beermaid is calling me by name and saying hello to me.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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It's not about smoking, it's about choices
It sure is. I've never smoked and I voted against it. It's not the governments job to control stuff like this. Maybe one of the people that love this law can explain to me why the government making choices and taking control of our lives is a good thing. 
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You're going to the wrong places. Pfft.. crowded bars.. I like to walk in and by the time I get to an empty seat at the bar.. my beer is already waiting for me and the beermaid is calling me by name and saying hello to me.
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I smoke and I know I should quit. But with that being said.........It's my choice to smoke. Not the Governments or peeps who had no idea what they were voting on. I'm all for not smoking in restaurants. But bars and private clubs? Come on peeps. It's total B.S. A friend of mine works at a beer distribution co. They have lost 40% of revenue due to bars being smoke free. Alot of peeps who smoke like me, stay home now. My beer is always cold, there is never a line in the John & plenty of ashtrays near by. But if the majority of my guests don't smoke, Out of respect for the majority I'll go outside and light up! Oh yeah, once again that's my choice!
You gotta Love the Elf !
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I am not one to support the smoking ban................it has been in effect in Florida for a few years now!
I have the same feelings as many here.............you go out into a bar..........most times you expect it to be a smoking bar......that is just reality.
The fact is................in Florida.............most of the bars you can still smoke in...............it has a lot to do with the percentage of food that is sold in the bar.
I believe that it is something like if the bar makes more then 30% of the profits on food..............the smoking ban is in effect!
That does mean that most of the major resturants are smoke free............and does not bother me.............especially since little kids are involved.
I often question a parent who brings a kid into a smoking bar........just to get the kid a soda and some chicken wings so that parent can have a cold beer or whatever............not sure that is great parenting.........but the government should have nothing to say about that.............but quess they do!
I have actaully seen where some of the smaller bars will decrease their menu items so they can still provide ashtrays for their customers.....and not ask the customer to go outside to smoke!
What the hell happened to the good old days!
![[Linked Image from i96.photobucket.com]](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/thazen/brownsflag2.jpg) GO BROWNS!
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At least it seems there is some wiggle room in Fla. about anti smoking. In Ohio it is all banned in bars. No exceptions
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The thing that gets me is that with a couple thousand dollars in upgrades, some exhaust duct, a few quiet fans, and a couple decent filters, you can allow smoking in a bar and not have it feel like you are in a cloud... You could still smell it but it's not like it has to be obnoxious...
yebat' Putin
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I dont smoke and even I think smokers are getting treated unfairly. This is just stupid. Whats the point of no smoking in bars but you can drink there?! What do you think is more likely to happen some1 dying because of the smoke they inhale or beer? 
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2005 - 16,885 DUI related deaths
2005 - 440,000 Smoking related deaths
I know, we love statistics.
FYI: I'm a proponent of choice, although i don't smoke and benefit from the smoking ban, I still think "The Man" should not rule upon our daily lives.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Gues I should be specific...How many have died from second hand smoke in a bar...
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O.K. now factor in alcohol related homocides, liver deaths due to alcoholism, suicides, other alcohol related maladies......figures lie and liars figure . We actually agree on this issue.
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Anyone who is for the smoking ban has no credibility in any other conversation complaining about rights being taken away.
Rights do not exist to protect things we like, but to protect the things we dont.
We need to ban drinking because it kills more innocent people who decide not to do it every day on our public highways.
We need to ban going out in sunlight because ti cuases skin cancer which kills thousands yearly.
Ban candy because problems do to being overwight kill thousand yearly.
Ban SUV's because in an accident with a compact car the people in the car have lower chance of survival.
Ban belly shirts on fat chicks . . . No one wants to see that!!!!!
Last edited by ibleedorange; 05/24/07 01:36 PM.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Instead of talking to Michelle, I should have been talking to you... how do you feel about handicap ramps and toilets? 
yebat' Putin
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Gues I should be specific...How many have died from second hand smoke in a bar...
Not trying to argue with you, just your comment brought up another thought I had that is connected to this topic.
Personally I'm not sure I buy the whole "second hand smoke" argument
Someone who works in that environment 8 hrs a day should be concerned, but someone who occasionally is in a smoky environment shouldn't need to worry much, the human body heals itself very well when the invader is in small doses.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Gues I should be specific...How many have died from second hand smoke in a bar...
Not trying to argue with you, just your comment brought up another thought I had that is connected to this topic.
Personally I'm not sure I buy the whole "second hand smoke" argument
Someone who works in that environment 8 hrs a day should be concerned, but someone who occasionally is in a smoky environment shouldn't need to worry much, the human body heals itself very well when the invader is in small doses.
I wasnt trying to argue with u either. Im in a good mood today.  I was just wondering if you knew the anwser and I was also trying to prove a point.
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I don't think they track it, since there's no way to gauge how much someone was exposed to second hand smoke over their lifetime, maybe an autopsy upon death to see the condition of the lungs and such, but unless it's suspicious or the family requests it, it won;t happen. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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It's not about smoking, it's about choices, I see no reason there cannot be establishments for smoking and non smoking
This is a really good idea, one I would support.
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I'm a smoker and I agree with the restaurant thing. If you can't go in and eat for an hour without a cig, there is something wrong with you. Banning it in bars is just retarded. I am a threat no more to you, then you are to the person driving next to you while driving home from a bar with alcohol in you. Also, how many of you non smokers work in factories? Lots of smoke from the welding, paint fumes in the air etc. Why isn't somebody doing anything about this. 1. Smoking ban 2. Strip clubs 6 feet away rule. What's next? We'll see. Our freedom is little by little being taken away and some of you don't even notice. 
How in the world can you fix something...
If you don't know how it's supposed to work?
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The thing that gets me is that with a couple thousand dollars in upgrades, some exhaust duct, a few quiet fans, and a couple decent filters, you can allow smoking in a bar and not have it feel like you are in a cloud... You could still smell it but it's not like it has to be obnoxious...
At our American Legion post we invested in thousands of dollars of "smoke eaters" and have them serviced regularly. The smoke is not prevalent at all...at least it wasn't until a couple of weeks ago when a Judge said another Judge was wrong and we finally had to pull the ashtrays and put up the signs or risk being fined daily. Now it's non-existent, and so is our canteen business. For those that have said there is an increase in business after implementing the non-smoking rules, I humbly and respectfully say that you are full of crap.
We are taking a beating at the cash register......and we will most assuredly come nowhere near donating tens upon tens of thousands of dollars to charities as we have in past years.
We are discussing building a patio for smokers, and this won't be a problem for most people in May thru October. But with this being Ohio, are people going to go somewhere where they have to stand in bad weather to have a smoke? Even if the patio has a awning/roof structure, it cannot have enclosed walls and that's just not people's idea of a good time to go outside to suffer through the elements to enjoy a vice.
Those of you that know me personally know that I lost my mother to lung cancer from cigarette smoking 4 years ago, and that I despise the fact that cigarettes were ever "invented." However, I am also a firm believer in personal choice, and I feel that even though the government did not impose this law on us they have the ability to make it right and are not doing so. The vast majority of people had no idea what they were voting on, and that DOES make for bad government.
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jc... Washington D.C. (7 minutes ago) - Legislators have just passed a new bill to require 30 feet between vehicles on all roads and any speed, including stopped at an intersection. This bill is aimed at reducing the numbers of fender benders and road rage cases that cost billions of dollars per year in insurance claims. Fines for infractions will be $100 per foot under the mandatory 30 feet, and will be strictly enforced beginning June1, 2007. Being stopped for the infraction and finding a lit cigarette in your vehicle will be another $250 fine, along with $150 for seatbelt violations, $500 for failure to use proper child restraints, and $50 for driving with bare feet. Attached to the bill is also a requirement for sunglasses to be worn when the UV index for the day is above 6.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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and for those who say "go to a non-smoking bar," there was no such thing in Athens.
There wasn't one because THERE WAS NEVER A MARKET FOR ONE! This is what's so ludicrous about the ban. A free market government telling private business owners that they can't allow smoking in their beer serving establishments.
If people wanted no-smoking bars, there would have been no-smoking bars.
I'm not a smoker, but this law is stupid. Period.
"My signature line goes here."
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The tail Wagging the Dog ! 
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I'm quite sure many of the "knowlegeable" voters looked deeply into the issue before voting on it. I've talked to many, many people who had no earthly idea that it also affected private clubs.
Actually people only voted on an idea. The law wasn't even written until after the vote. They could have put what ever they wanted in the law. So you are right, people really didn't have a clue what they were voting for. They new the basic idea but that was it.
When it was actually written it was worded where it would allow most private clubs to allow smoking, but a judge has already stepped in and put a stop to that also.
It also makes it very hard for lots of businesses to have a patio or a outdoor area for smokers due to all the wall, roof and doorway provisions that wee out in the law with the already existing laws for open container etc.
I live very close to the Pennsylvania border and lots of smokers are choosing to drive the couple miles to go to PA to eat and drink.
So we have bars and restaurants that are losing business to another state and will struggle to survive. Cooks, bartenders, servers etc. that say their tips are down 70-80%, and the city and state will be losing tax dollars that they will have to make up somewhere else, not to mention a city that is already making major cuts due to budget crunching now has to figure out a way to pay a health inspector employee to go around enforcing the law.
I wouldn't have had any problem with some kind of smoking restrictions. But this one was poorly planned and thought out.
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and I feel that even though the government did not impose this law on us they have the ability to make it right and are not doing so.
The governmen t cannot amend the State Constitution, neither can it ignore it, nor modify it by itself.
The was a Constitutional amendment, and it can only be changed by a vote of the people. Approximately 20% of people in Ohio smoke. This amendment passed overwhelmingly. There is little chance that you're going to convince the 80% who don't smoke that reintroducing cigarette smoke into restaurants and bars is somehow a good thing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Four pages of posts and not one mention of the employees in the establishments.
I voted for the ban for the benefit of the employees who spend their week working in an environment filled with unfiltered smoke.
I don't care about the smoke that someone sucked through a filter then filtered said smoke with thier lungs...I care about the unfiltered death that burns from the end of the cigarette. That stuff is brutally toxic.
I can't wait for someone to tell me that all the non-smoking bartenders should just go get another job.
It's a health and safety issue. Someday, the ban will be Nationwide. It's no different than a guard on a meat slicer or lighted EXIT signs or capacity limits in a room.
The majority passed this law...the comments that people who voted for the ban either 'don't go to bars' or 'didn't understand what they voted for' is ridiculous.
I was in a VFW last night...there were (10) people there...all at the bar...(2) people were smoking. Hmmm, 20%.
I then went to an American Legion...there were (13) people at the bar...(1) was smoking. Hmmm. 8%.
I told my friend the following regarding smoking in private clubs:
#1 - Private clubs are like credit unions...basically, if you are alive and know someone, you can be a member.
#2 - Regarding telling a vet he can't smoke in the club. Well, that vet risked his life and served his country to preserve freedom and democracy in a country where the people decide how they should be goverened and where the majority rules.
So last night, we may have told (3) vets that they couldn't smoke inside but we told (20) vets that they no longer had to endure the smoke while being in their own club.
Sounds like exactly why they served their country, eh?
The majority voted for this ban...and it wasn't even close. Any debate ultimately ends right there.
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You my freind are FOS ! 20 % my arse . You wanna play with numbers come to my bar and ask the same question. When I said 95% of my patrons smoke that is what I meant . I can only pray that sometime ,someone will pass a law that will seriously curtail your income . Then I hope that you face the possibility of losing everything you worked for. I hope you stay awake nights feeling that your slice of the American Dream was being taken away by dumbass people without a clue. I hope that your wife will be sick with worry about things to come. I hope that the same government forces you to become a criminal in order to survive in an already tight feild. You don't want smoke then keep your whinny ass out of places where smoke is present. I'll bet you are the kind of person who has already filed numerous complaints with the state ?  As far as employees enduring smoke...don't freakin work there. I don't like heights which is why I am not a damn window washer . Don't like blood so I am not in the medical field . Hate numbers so I reckon a career in accounting is not for me . Satrting to get the picture ? A law is a law and this has been passed so we all have to deal with it but what we don't need is some ninnies trying to justify why they voted the way they did and how it will be better for us in the long run. Do yourself a favor and stay away from those nasty bars but if you can't I would suggest keeping quiet about this smoking ban nonsense in front of smokers because you just may get your feelings hurt.
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Your first sentence says it all. What a crock that was. LOL.
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Believe it or not, and I'm speaking from experience, the public will adjust to the new rules, and it will be business as usual, and in many cases, more business.
Smokers don't goto the bar to smoke, they go to sit, have conversation, and drink. Smoking is just a secondary thing, in a couple months they won't give it much thought to step out back every 15-20 mins and have a smoke, meanwhile you'll gain new non-smoking patrons who wanted to enjoy a drink and good conversation, but didn't want to or couldn't deal with the smoky environment before.
A secondary effect of a smoking ban is all those fringe quitters, it gives them 1 more reason and in some cases that little assistance they needed to quit.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Sure, people are sheep, they slowly get used to their rights and freedoms being taken away one by one, until they barely have any left and they'll look around and wonder how it all happened.
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First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niem
yebat' Putin
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Didn't say it was right or I agreed with it, but it's done now, so I was explaining what will probably take place there as it did here when they first put a smoking ban in effect.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Sure we are sheep.. but we are adaptable sheep... perhaps that's part of our problem, we adapt and learn to live with things until they become normal.. that's when they come for the next thing...
yebat' Putin
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I can only hope you are right. But that is really my secondary complaint. The first being the B.S. law in the first place. They passed a law that really wasn't and then sorted it out after it was passed. This whole line of thinking has me concerned, it really does , about what is next. They pick something that nobody or at least a minority cares about and run it through without the masses really pondering what is behind the move. The precedent has been established that we need protection against ourselves........
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Quote:
I can only hope you are right. But that is really my secondary complaint. The first being the B.S. law in the first place. They passed a law that really wasn't and then sorted it out after it was passed. This whole line of thinking has me concerned, it really does , about what is next. They pick something that nobody or at least a minority cares about and run it through without the masses really pondering what is behind the move. The precedent has been established that we need protection against ourselves........
Well they did it with Gambling and Smoking here in Ohio...next is probably Obesity(ie..Fast food). When will it end?
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I agree, it's government control hidden in a "motherly protection" cloak.
I don't like it either, but until the masses wake up and see the big picture, it's not going to change. These "special interest" groups need to see the whole war, not just the battle, and decide if this fight is the best for the whole, not just for today.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I am a non-smoker and have enjoyed going to a bar and not smelling like an ashtray. Regardless, my take on this whole thing is that if they are going to ban smoking in someone's place of business, then the government needs to ban smoking completely and stop selling them. I agree it's not right to tell business owners how to run their operation, especially when the majority of bar patrons smoke. That's like banning fans at CBS who like to eat hot dogs... it's stupid. Ban smoking completely or stop running other people's businesses.
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I am a non-smoker and have enjoyed going to a bar and not smelling like an ashtray. Regardless, my take on this whole thing is that if they are going to ban smoking in someone's place of business, then the government needs to ban smoking completely and stop selling them. I agree it's not right to tell business owners how to run their operation, especially when the majority of bar patrons smoke. That's like banning fans at CBS who like to eat hot dogs... it's stupid. Ban smoking completely or stop running other people's businesses.
Gov't. makes way too much money on tobacco to ban it altogether.
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Well they did it with Gambling and Smoking here in Ohio...next is probably Obesity(ie..Fast food). When will it end?
When they find out that boredom induced suicide is on the rise...
yebat' Putin
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