DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Case for Keeping Them

to be fair though, purp. when i went to the monday night game, pettine wasn't talking to other coaches much at all the entire game.

it always looked like he was standing there watching the big screen. there was times he wasn't even looking at the field while the play was happening, just at the screen,

i'm not a coach, so i dunno what that means, if anything, but he definitely doesn't interact all that much with the staff. maybe it's just him letting his coaches do their thing?

He's probably staring at the screen as it is the only way to actually see what is going on when you are as close as he is. I've sat in the first or second row at several stadiums, and IMO those seats are awful - too close. You need to be at a minimum 10-12 rows back to begin to see what is going on.

Or me.

Man was I wrong.

We all wish you guys were right.

We've all been wrong before and will be again.

Next year I'm gonna say that the whole team sucks, we have no QB, every draft pick we took sucks, and that out coaching staff and front office are clueless.

Maybe my track record of being wrong will continue and work out for the best.

pettins last interview ended with him saying, about jff, its show me not tell me...like we are gonna stop the run? like we are gonna run the ball?

Ah! So our season of futility is indeed all your fault...

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland//post/...wns-train-wreck

Do we really have posters wanting to keep Farmer? Love or hate Grossi - his 12 transactions listed here seem to be enough to seal his fate in my opinion. cut and dried.

When you put it all on paper and look at the results, it's brutal to even think about.

But in order to balance the ledger Tony, how about writing a companion piece about the positives that Farmer has initiated? I know, not going to happen...

This issue is the negatives, The negatives are why this team is 2-10...

If the team was 10-2, I'm sure the positives would be discussed...

Just like Diesel said - and the article is very much in response to Pettine's comments yesterday. And the whole context is "Pettine is under fire every day for a terrible performance - Farmer is a contributor to that situation" .... there is no need or premise to look at the positives . . .

And to be fair to Grossi - he could have piled on much worse. He stuck to the decisions that shaped the 2015 roster - he didn't go back to the previous draft or pile on with textgate etc .... all of which could (and should be) added to the ledger when considering Farmer's overall performance. (and when looking at the overall performance we should also look at Farmers wins).

Question - what do you consider Farmer's wins? Do they offset the mis-steps in your opinion.

I will be sure to fix my part next season.

Oh, if only I had that kind of power ......

How close do all those positives come to offsetting those 12 negatives, let alone any others? Hits on a couple of UDFAs? A couple of mid and low round "values"? What will it take to balance the ledger?

Possibly can't be balanced! I should have phrased my intention more clearly by stating "a more balanced approach". My bad...

...and the positives would (should!) outweigh the negatives. Good point, Billy...

Fixed it ...

Just throwing this out there for thoughts.

I keep hearing this defense is built from the back. My questions are: Does this make any sense? What other teams do this successfully?

Thanks.

I think that was part of their plan but losing Skrine and having Gilbert whiff screwed up that plan. At the same time, they've focused on the front 7 strongly as well.

I think their strategy for building the defense is sound. I also think the players they brought in have been less than what they'd hoped.

I have come to this conclusion:

If we think Manziel is the guy, we should keep the everyone.

If we think Manziel is not the guy, fire everyone and start fresh.

As of right now, I am going with option two.

That would be all fine and dandy but when McCown gets healthy Pet will say, McCown never did anything to lose his job as our starting QB.

I agree with everything except the giving up on Manziel part.

Unfortunately if we go with new guys, Manziel is likely done here.

Does Pettine want to be a head coach or not a head coach?

New people will not want to tie their future to Manziel. The people we currently have will have no other option.

I worded that poorly.

I agree with your entire premise.

However, I am against giving up on Manziel under either scenario.

I also realize new guys will not want him.

I cannot see Pettine being dictated to in the form of a Manziel directive. Farmer would have to cut McCown and Davis leaving NOBODY but Manziel. I'm not sure Pettine would stick around for that.

If Manziel is to be our QB next year, we can't change the offense. Cannot. That would be three systems in three years. That is death. If Pettine will not play him, promote Flip to head coach.

Note, the above scenario is only if Manziel is the starter next year. Which I don't think he should/will be. As of right now I fire everyone and draft a new QB.

As long as Pettine can mold Manziel in the image he wants, he won't have any issues playing him. That is, as long as Manziel behaves like a choir boy, Pettine will be fine.

But Pettine has to worry about being here first.

I think Pettine and Manziel are already as good as gone. I am hoping Farmer will be gone to, but I fear he has the owner's (and his butt buddy Scheiner's) ear.

If I were Pettine, I would just show Haslam a "highlight" reel of Erving's plays and then say, "We drafted this guy in the first round when he had multiple holes in other places."

Manziel is nowhere near as good as gone.

I don't know. It seems like Manziel has burned too many people.

When Crow ran the ball in and Johnny Chants filled the stadium, that was a moment, especially with theowner on the sideline cheering as well.

Manziel HAS to be included in the firing process too. I can't see ANY scenario where Farmer survives. He simply is clueless when it comes to drafting...or talent evaluation...or both.

Ohhhhh, I didn't see or know about Haslam being on the sideline cheering as well. Personally I think Manziel is Haslam's boy and he will hang onto him, so I think it will be hard to seeing us parting ways with Johnny.

NFL's editor should be fired. Also whoever hired MJD, who can't write a paragraph to save his life, should also be fired. That blurb was painful to read. I'm almost ashamed to be such a big fan of his because of this. SMH.

If the team is just going to draft another spread style QB then we might as will stay with Manziel. The team has 2 years invested into him to learn the pro style game. Another investment into a spread style QB will result into another long couple of seasons for them to learn the game.

If they go into another direction they need to trade for an established QB or draft a Pro style QB.

Man, I still don't understand all this hate for Pet on how he's handled Manziel since he was drafted. Pet was 100% hands off when it came to Manziel last year was he not? And Johnny left on his own wasted an entire year in the NFL AND is more at fault for us not knowing "what we have" in him than Pet benching him for lying.

Serious question for you and the others: If Pet was as hands off with Manziel this year as he was last year, do you honestly believe that Manziel would be showing as much improvement on the field as he has this year? For no other reason than because he went to rehab?

Pet was right about him last year. And so far he's been right about him this year. Remember a little while back when Pet got torched for saying he needed to stay in the pocket more because he was missing reads? He was just a big meanie picking on Johhny. But what did we see today: Manziel had a really good day today, couple bonehead plays, nothing fatal, but he stayed in the pocket, showed good presence, patience, and made some real nice plays... because he did what they wanted him to do.

How did you come up with the two year number? Pulled it out of thin air, that's how.