If I were a betting man, I'd guess that Goff stays in school, while Lynch and Cook are the top QB's (though there's always one who surprises at the combine and gets drafted higher than they should).
Goff staying in school makes no sense. He is the most likely to be drafted first overall out of all the QBs.
I don't trust PFF as much as I used to (I think they got too big and have hired unreliable people to do their ratings), but I do rely them some for things that I don't see.
Here is what they wrote about Goff (and us picking him):
Quote:
With Johnny Manziel getting the nod as the starter this week, and likely for the remainder of the season, the Browns are aiming to get a four game run to see what they have in him. That’s probably not enough time even if he does impress though, and the Browns could find themselves in the perfect position to select the next in a long line of potential franchise quarterbacks. They have other needs, and could go with a playmaker at wide receiver, but this is a franchise that has been crying out for a franchise quarterback since its return to Cleveland, and they simply can’t pass up a top talent at number one overall.
Memphis’ Paxton Lynch would get some consideration here too, but based on our grades he is a step behind Goff. Cal’s signal-caller was our fourth-highest graded quarterback in 2015 and is the top prospect at the position heading into the draft. He didn’t have a great supporting cast — with an offensive line that had four players with a grade below -10.0 — but he made the most out of it, grading positively on the 160 drop backs where he was under pressure. He has the downfield arm that NFL teams look for, throwing for 1,403 yards and nine touchdowns on passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield. He might not be the slam-dunk prospect the next two players we’ll talk about are, but he’s the best player at a position of major need for the Browns.
I can be talked into any of the best QB prospects at this point, but right now Goff is my favorite.
Goff is a throwing machine, he looks exactly like a top tier NFL QB, 3 steps ball is out, accuracy, touch, trajectory, anticipation.
Go out and watch his games against Stanford and Utah, two of the better defenses in the country. You're going to see him move the ball up and down on them and keep Cal in those games.
He isn't without flaws, he has some footwork to clean up and I would love for him to gain some weight but he is a pass first, run only a last resort, eyes down the feild, throw on the run, no back needed, NFL caliber QB.
I'm not going to go all Diam and promise he will save our franchise, but he is the kind of prospect you don't pass on if you're the Browns I don't care who is still on the board.
I've watched Goff more than any of these QBs (I live on the West Coast and Cal has had some late games on TV). I think he is excellent. He reminds me of pre-2015 Matt Ryan.
I've watched Goff more than any of these QBs (I live on the West Coast and Cal has had some late games on TV). I think he is excellent. He reminds me of pre-2015 Matt Ryan.
I was going to make a thread on this, but I got busy. Coincidence that Ryan, Hoyer and Griffin fell apart under Shanny?
Also, I feel like I had this same conversation about Matt Ryan, meaning people kept saying there were "better" prospects on the board to be had there. smh
I've watched Goff more than any of these QBs (I live on the West Coast and Cal has had some late games on TV). I think he is excellent. He reminds me of pre-2015 Matt Ryan.
I was going to make a thread on this, but I got busy. Coincidence that Ryan, Hoyer and Griffin fell apart under Shanny?
Well, he was directly involved in RGIII imploding, so no coincidence there. Hoyer is just really streaky and not all that good. I don't know what is wrong with Ryan though.
I've watched Goff more than any of these QBs (I live on the West Coast and Cal has had some late games on TV). I think he is excellent. He reminds me of pre-2015 Matt Ryan.
I was going to make a thread on this, but I got busy. Coincidence that Ryan, Hoyer and Griffin fell apart under Shanny?
What? RGIII had one good year. It was under Shanny.
Matt Ryan is called Matty Ice, but I have always called him Matty Choke. He is one of the most overrated players in the league.
Hoyer? Fell apart. What big season did he ever have before he played in Cleveland?
As far as Goff goes..........I haven't watched him enough to pass final judgement, but right now, I would not want no part of him. He is another overrated qb. Looks pretty. Inaccurate on too many passes and throws into coverage way too much.
I'm not wild about any of these guys. Lynch looks the best, but he is a project. I haven't watched that Wentz guy, so perhaps there is hope there.
Todd McShay Says Some NFL Teams Have A Problem With How Michigan State’s Connor Cook Carries Himself
Connor Cook made headlines for all the wrong reasons after winning the Big Ten Championship Game Saturday night. The Michigan State quarterback, after being named MVP of the contest, snatched the award out of Archie Griffin’s hands, disrespecting the two-time Heisman Trophy winner in the minds of some. connor cook disrespects archie griffin
Some NFL teams are turned off by Cook.
The Spartans’ senior later apologized and everyone seems to have moved on. Everyone except NFL teams, that is.
ESPN NFL Draft analyst Todd McShay joined Russillo & Kanell this afternoon to discuss the draft stock of the College Football Playoff’s four starting quarterbacks. He was asked if Cook, who almost left for the league after his junior season, has helped his stock this year.
Here’s what he said:
“On the field – helped. Off the field, there are some real questions. It’s amazing. Everyone I talk to – the fact that he was not a captain, the way he carries himself, (there’s) a little bit of a Jay Cutler, turns people off,” McShay said.
“NFL teams are saying this to you?” Russillo asked.
“Oh, yeah,” McShay said.
“Wow,” Russillo said.
“It started from all the NFL scouts, teams doing due diligence on him. So that’s really going to be the big thing. Now, he doesn’t have the strongest arm in the world, and there are some minor things in his game that aren’t great, but I really believe he would be a first-round pick if he was clean or perfect in terms of the intangibles and the personality that you’re bringing in,” McShay said.
“He didn’t help himself at all at the (Big Ten Championship Game) ceremony,” Kanell said.
“No (he didn’t),” McShay said.
If this is the case, how Cook handles himself during team interviews at the NFL Combine will be vitally important. So, too, will be how his health progresses from now until February.
Cook and Michigan State are set to face Alabama in the Cotton Bowl Dec. 31.
As far as Goff goes..........I haven't watched him enough to pass final judgement, but right now, I would not want no part of him. He is another overrated qb. Looks pretty. Inaccurate on too many passes and throws into coverage way too much.
I kind of agree here. I do not see great accuracy with him. For as many yards and TDs as he had against Stanford, he also woefully underthrew a few deep balls... pretty Hoyer-esque on those ones. I also agree he throws at covered guys too much.
I think he does enough good things to make him draftable at QB as a starter, but I do not think he's as good as Manziel. Actually I see him as a similar style of QB as Manziel in that his signature qualities are extending the play and keeping his eyes downfield, but in almost every category I think Manziel is better.
There are two key areas where Goff is ahead: size and reliability/availability. That might be enough for them to draft him. and if so, I won't be mad about it.
There is still a long way to go in the evaluation process.
Goff looks to me like a unfinished product. That is why I think he should stay in school.
However, if he chooses to come out he would be a guy I would want to work out thoroughly.
When you look at prospects like Goff it becomes more difficult to forecast him into the NFL. He is slight in build only 21 years old and comes from a spread offense.
You have envision what he will look like two years from now and after he gets acclimated to the NFL game. It is very important to know his football IQ and his ability to comprehend and learn. Of course all that makes it much harder to evaluate.
Between now and draft day hopefully more information will come to light.
One thing I will be watching closely during the bowl season is how does Connor Cook compete against Alabama.
I like his game the best since he comes from a pro style offense. What I will be watching for is;
Alabama has a great front 7 that stuffs the run game. I fully expect Michigan State to struggle running the ball. Dantonio will not not abandon the run but Cook will need to make plays.
Will he have the ability to move the team against Bama thru the air? Will he panic against pressure on 3rd and long? Watch him audible when he reads the defense pre snap. How will he handle the pressure of playing on the big stage. Will his team rally behind him?
This team needs a QB that can go on the road and beat the Steelers, Bengals, and Ravens. If Cook can beat Bama in a huge playoff game and look impressive I think his stock will soar.
If Bama wins big and Cook throws a couple picks I think he will drop to mid to late 1st.
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i don't like the way I have seen cook passing the ball. He throws behind the WR far too often. I just don't think he see the field well enough for the NFL level.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Us keeping Manziel because we kept the guys that drafted him..
Or us drafting a QB #1 and moving on from Manziel.. because we kept the guys that drafted him..
With Tony Romos inuury problems, these next four games could be huge for Johnny, if he doesnt bomb I feel like Jerry Jones might do something stupid and offer us something of actual value for him..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
With Tony Romos inuury problems, these next four games could be huge for Johnny, if he doesnt bomb I feel like Jerry Jones might do something stupid and offer us something of actual value for him..
Kinda where I am. It's still possible for JFF to have a productive NFL career, and more power to him. I'm just tired of the circus (actually, didn't like it from the beginning.) If he performs well for the last 4 games, and we can get something for him? Take it.
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I think Johnny has show flashes of being a good QB so I would hate to trade him for less than a second round pick. I mean at this point its in for a penny in for a ... you get the idea ^^
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
With Tony Romos inuury problems, these next four games could be huge for Johnny, if he doesnt bomb I feel like Jerry Jones might do something stupid and offer us something of actual value for him..
Kinda where I am. It's still possible for JFF to have a productive NFL career, and more power to him. I'm just tired of the circus (actually, didn't like it from the beginning.) If he performs well for the last 4 games, and we can get something for him? Take it.
I guess it depends on what might be offered, and how well he performs.
Like it or not, the best thing for the Browns would be for Manziel to stay here and have a very nice career. It would be nice to not have to use a 1st round pick on a QB every couple of years. It's hard to get ahead when you have to do that.
The ideal IMO is we can trade down a few slots, get another pick, and move forward. That assumes Johnny balls out the next month and someone else is picking players.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I've watched Goff more than any of these QBs (I live on the West Coast and Cal has had some late games on TV). I think he is excellent. He reminds me of pre-2015 Matt Ryan.
I was going to make a thread on this, but I got busy. Coincidence that Ryan, Hoyer and Griffin fell apart under Shanny?
What? RGIII had one good year. It was under Shanny.
Matt Ryan is called Matty Ice, but I have always called him Matty Choke. He is one of the most overrated players in the league.
Hoyer? Fell apart. What big season did he ever have before he played in Cleveland?
As far as Goff goes..........I haven't watched him enough to pass final judgement, but right now, I would not want no part of him. He is another overrated qb. Looks pretty. Inaccurate on too many passes and throws into coverage way too much.
I'm not wild about any of these guys. Lynch looks the best, but he is a project. I haven't watched that Wentz guy, so perhaps there is hope there.
There is a learning curve no doubt, but his pocket presence, his footwork, his accuracy and his arm are high end.
In my mind Lynch is much more of a project than Goff. Lynch has a much better arm, I know I've said Josh McCown and a better Mike Glennon, but I also see a lot of Joe Flacco in his game. I see a higher ceiling in Goff, JMO
The only thing that could change my mind is, Johnny Manziel. Everyone knows I have always believed in Johnny, if he can get his head right, we won't need to draft a QB. That however is TBD.
I think I would rather keep Johnny than draft any of this year's qbs in the first round.
IF.. IF.. IF.. Manziel plays good the next 3 games and we keep him and McCown, I don't think I want to draft a QB any earlier than 3rd round.
Perhaps you could then use that 1st round pick on something of use like a Wide Receiver or a dominant pass rusher that always demands a double team?
Those would be my first two areas of need to address.
If we stick with this defense and there is a guy at the top of the draft worthy, I wouldn't hesitate to drop that pick on a CB, either.
Haden is now a question mark, Gilbert is a bust, Tramon Williams is old and just a placeholder for a few years, and all of our other guys are Slot or backup -type players.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I don't disagree with that, but one really good pass rusher can make 3 average CBs better. I'd rather draft the pass rusher and either take the corner in 2 or 3.. or even pluck a decent one out of FA.
And I do not want to ignore the WR position again. Has to come in either round 1 or 2.
I agree w/you, but I think Kruger can rush the passer. Just got put him in better situations. I also think Mingo could be a good pass rusher if they would feature him in that role.
But yeah, other than WR, our biggest need appears to be an elite pass rusher.
I agree w/you, but I think Kruger can rush the passer. Just got put him in better situations. I also think Mingo could be a good pass rusher if they would feature him in that role.
But yeah, other than WR, our biggest need appears to be an elite pass rusher.
I suspect a formal switch to the 4-3 is forth coming; the defensive line appears to be more effective when they do run a 4-3.
I agree w/you, but I think Kruger can rush the passer. Just got put him in better situations. I also think Mingo could be a good pass rusher if they would feature him in that role.
But yeah, other than WR, our biggest need appears to be an elite pass rusher.
I suspect a formal switch to the 4-3 is forth coming; the defensive line appears to be more effective when they do run a 4-3.
I think Jim Schwartz could really do some damage with this defense.
I agree w/you, but I think Kruger can rush the passer. Just got put him in better situations. I also think Mingo could be a good pass rusher if they would feature him in that role.
But yeah, other than WR, our biggest need appears to be an elite pass rusher.
I suspect a formal switch to the 4-3 is forth coming; the defensive line appears to be more effective when they do run a 4-3.
I think Jim Schwartz could really do some damage with this defense.
Maybe, but if you do run a 4-3, you better make sure you have depth, and that you can consistently get pressure with your 4 linemen. Otherwise..good luck.
A 4-3 defense has their linemen in odd techniques while a 3-4 has them in even techniques. To keep it simple, I will just talk about a "0" technique vs a "1" technique. In the 0 technique, the defender lines up right over a man. In the 1 technique, the defender lines up off the shoulder of the offensive linemen. The 0 technique is responsible for 2 gaps while the 1 technique is only responsible for one.
Shelton is similar to guys like Vince Wolfork who are expected to play two gaps and free things up for the linebackers. In the odd techniques, the DTs while only playing one gap, still have to contend w/double teams from the center and guard, but the big difference is that they are expected to rush the passer. Suh is an example of this kind of player.
A 4-3 defense has their linemen in odd techniques while a 3-4 has them in even techniques. To keep it simple, I will just talk about a "0" technique vs a "1" technique. In the 0 technique, the defender lines up right over a man. In the 1 technique, the defender lines up off the shoulder of the offensive linemen. The 0 technique is responsible for 2 gaps while the 1 technique is only responsible for one.
Shelton is similar to guys like Vince Wolfork who are expected to play two gaps and free things up for the linebackers. In the odd techniques, the DTs while only playing one gap, still have to contend w/double teams from the center and guard, but the big difference is that they are expected to rush the passer. Suh is an example of this kind of player.
Does that make sense?
That's solved somewhat by running a hybrid 4-3; ideally, you want at least one of your DT's to consistently draw a double team, as it should make your DE's job a little easier by forcing the OL to shift inside slightly. At that point, it's all about leverage for the DE against the OT.
I understand what you are saying. Not sure why Shelton would have to play less. Are you saying from a conditioning standpoint or are you saying from him not having those skills standpoint.
If the latter, I disagree. Scouting him for the draft I thought he was pretty decent rushing the passer but average at best as a run stopper. Currently he doesn't get a lot of qb pressures. Is that because he is incapable or because he is hampered by playing the 2 gap system?
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