DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More on Manziel

If he's smarter then we think, he's already packed.

I disagree.

If Manziel plays well, this might be the best route to take.

This will all be a moot point after the Seahawks and Chiefs games.

Yes you do. I wouldn't tear up his rookie deal and give him the $120 million extension just yet, but that would certainly be enough for me to say, Manziel is the guy next year... keep McCown or Davis, whichever you believe is the better back-up (I'd prefer McCown, he plays better and he seems to genuinely enjoy teaching Manziel and watching him succeed)... and go with it.

And therein lies the conundrum. I don't have an answer. I don't know what I would do. I'm hoping these last three games gives me at least a slightly better indication of which way I lean on this subject. This FO and coaching staff has certainly painted themselves into a corner here. Which ever direction they turn, they'd better be right.

And the big unknown is.. to what extent is Jimmy pulling the strings. It may come down to, if the staff and FO want to keep their job, they will go with Manziel next year... I really hope that's not the case, but it's a possibility that there are bigger forces at work here.

they know about him as much as any player they have had for 2 year... heck just 2 weeks ago he was late for training... and thats probably the tip of the iceberg... the one that leaked out....

We are playing 3 of the 4 hottest teams in the league. No one is running the ball on Seattle and now you are asking Manziel to throw consistently against the Legion of boom in Seattle.

The Chiefs just dont make mistakes on defense. This is a fantastic test and then you have the season finale rivalry game against the Steelers who Johnny damn near put up 400 yards on last time but he wasnt able to finish.

It isnt a 3 or 4 game stretch either. He played well against the Jets team but just didnt get any help at all. he lit up Titans. he played a great half against the Bengals but we just got to far behind and the 2nd half was blah. He played good against the steelers 370 yards. He played great against the 9ers hell he put up near 300 and didnt throw a single pass in the 4th quarter.

The kid has improved each time out and thats what you want to see. He is proving his doubters wrong but they just dont want to admit it. i am sure mary kay is under the suicide watch after seeing Manziel play well.

I will say that a certain percentage of the fan base feels that way. I do believe that we have enough fans that know the game to where an overall blanket statement such as that simply isn't accurate. Any coach or owner who let's the squawking of the fan base dictate how they build a team or who they start/hire/fire, is doomed to fail.



I believe whether it be Manziel or a first round pick we have the same opportunity to actually get behind them. And yes, I agree that a new rookie shouldn't look as good right away as someone who has been in the league for almost two full seasons.



Yes we do. I believe who that will be is anyone's guess at this point in time.

The next HC and GM will want their own QB. I think Johnny would have to play lights out for us to not draft a QB. I believe he is gonna be a top QB in this league but I aint coach or GM either lol

And that goes back to my post about the timeline. We all know JFF started yesterday, we're just not sure of the events that precipitated him starting.

And the big thing that scares me, which can't be controlled.. is watch him go out and play really well against Seattle and then either near the end of the game or early in the KC game, he'll get hurt and we won't get to see him finish...

In what world is a nine game sample enough to tell if a QB is good or not?

Funny how you state that as a fact.

Kind of like when you stated we don't have any good TE's on the roster as fact.

Am I supposed to say, "This is only one man's opinion" before every post?

Also, find me one person who thought Barnidge would do what he's doing. One.

In the world where that's all you've got to go on.

Regardless of the sample size, a decision still has to be made.

In my opinion, any decision made to hedge against the possibility that your decision is wrong, is admitting an inability to make the correct decision in the first place. Plus, it creates even more problems in the near future.

For once this team has to make a correct decision, as hard as that might be.

While entirely possible, I don't even wish to think of that scenario playing out.

If you have to bet on the future of a player and that player is also the guy who has been in rehab, been a fool off the field, and wasn't a great bet to be good in the first place, then you get rid of him.

Maybe I don't.

The Shanny's made RGII bad? LMAO

Yeah, his career really took off after they left.

It's difficult when you're caught up in the moment, I've watched both games Alabama and Oregon at least 3 times each and when your emotions are out of it, you can see flaws in Jones game. I definitely think that scouts would be seeing the same thing going into last years draft. Every prospect is golden until watch their games 5 times.

There was more hype than substance last year but I understand the point you're making on Manziel. The big difference is, it's not a 3 game sample against grocery baggers, it's Seattle, KC and Pitt.

I agree. I want to find out that JM is the guy we can move forward with in to next year and beyond. Screw the draft pick.

I know you're entrenched on one side regarding this topic, but Griffin got hurt, substantially. Shanny WAS there during his collapse and his subsequent firing. He was here when Hoyer started out hot and fell apart and Hoyer is doing fine now. He is in Atlanta where hey started out as the best team in the NFL, their run game has disappeared and they can't throw it.

It stand to reason that it is not 100% coincidence.

j/c:

I think we need to be careful when evaluating JM over the next three games.

There seems to be quite a few people who want to see him fail and they are almost licking their chops because of the competition we are playing the next few weeks.

I am looking for progress w/the kid. Thus far, I think he has shown progress.

As w/all young qbs, there will be set-backs. My boy Teddy, has had some clunkers. The great Carr pretty much lost the game against the Chiefs all by himself. Bortles has struggled. Luck has struggled. Two-time Super Bowl champion Eli Manning has thrown a ton of picks.

Be very careful of being too harsh during the next few weeks. It's not like we are loaded w/offensive talent. Seriously.........who the heck are our receivers at this point? How many teams would trade their running backs for ours?

Be careful to not just listen to the guys who despise JM and only wish to criticize him.

RGIII sucks eggs and he had a good year because of the Shannys. Not the opposite.

He has looked very good in his last two starts. Night and day from a year ago, I am encouraged. His disposition on game days is completely different from when I was 10 rows up last season watching him closely.


I believe in Manziel as a football player. As a person, I can just hope he continues his rehabilitation.

He's night and day better on the field right now as compared to last year, but I don't really see wins over the Titans and 49ers are real measuring sticks. Colt McCoy, Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden all played well in spots too. Personally, I need a bigger sampling size before I'm on the bandwagon. I'm rooting for him to do well, and hope he does improve and makes me eat my words, but regardless of how these last three games finish up, I still don't trust him off the field. How the hell could you after the timeline he's had in the last two years?

We're not winning any of the last three games, but can he play well enough to remove all of the doubt that he himself created by being so under prepared last year, and being such a child off the field? I guess we'll see.

I don't disagree with that, but you are what your record says you are and his record is not a good one. Fast starts and complete bottom falling out.

Not sure I ever said I was on his bandwagon. I am asking for objectivity. If that is on "his band-wagon," so be it.

J/C ....

One other thing to remember is that Manziel, while he had a great game, was also backed by a spectacular defensive effort, and the best rushing attack we have seen in years. (233 yards and 6.7 yards/rush for Crowell and Johnson) He also took a lot of time on some passes,time that he will not always have. The OL had its best game of the year, and protected him incredibly well. That's going to be much harder against the remainder of our schedule. He is going to have to take that next step forward, and get faster in the pocket with his decision making. If he can do that, then he stands a real chance of being a franchise QB. If not, then he is still a massive question mark going into next season. I think that he has the capacity to speed up mentally, because he seems capable of doing so when throwing on the run, when he has even more factors to deal with. Time will tell though.

I think your point about how much time the OL gave him is an excellent one. There is no way that JM can continue to hold the ball that long the next three weeks.

Good point.

I have zero problem taking a QB in the draft, I just don't think we need to use another first rounder at this point. Cardale in the 4th or later would be a steal IMHO. Worst case scenario is that we cut him.

But we need to get talent at positions of need and we need it everywhere. WR, I think we need a bruiser RB to go with Duke and Crow. Ditch the FB, he sucks. We could use some more talent on the lines and at CB too. I hope we focus on offense after we take the BPA (not a QB) with our first.

Ok, Mr. Vers. Show me where I said the Shanneys made RGIII look bad? I said the shanneys did the samething with RGIII, that Pet did with McCown. They did him wrong by keeping him in the game when he was hurt. Please read it right the next time.

I agree, fix other issues and get a pro style QB in a late round.

I know i don't post nearly as much as most members do, and 'Peen I always like to read your posts because they are usually well thought out.

I agree with Manziels performance over the next few game being of the utmost importance. I really like how he looks on the field and hope he does well.

That being said, I think even if Johnny looks good, I hope we draft high enough to get either Goff or Lynch if we can. Despite what he does the next three games, we have no idea if Johnny will crash and burn again in the off season, and five games is way too small a sample set for us to say Jonhny is the "face of this franchise".

So in the event Johnny does well(I would love to scare these in the hunt teams), I hope we retain a top two pick because I think it is imperative that we grab one of the highest rated QBs in this draft. Sure there is no guarantee either Manziel, Goff or Lynch will be franchise worthy, but I would rather end up with a Brees/Rivers scenario like SD had if they do, than once again thinking we have our guy only to find, to the fans dismay, that we don't. I don't think we have a choice but to draft a Goff or Lynch if we can.

Just my $0.02.

Exactly. While Manziel might show flashes of brilliance these last 4 games, I have a serious concern if he can truly develop into a dependable leader on the field and someone who can lay low off the field. I am SO tired of the drama that follows this kid around. Shut up, work hard, develop your skills and be the leader these guys NEED you to be in the locker room and on the field.

Honestly, I would feel better if he plays well enough to get the Browns a mid round draft pick. I just don't see how this kid EVER gets away from being a party boy and gets serious about being an NFL QB. The Browns don't need the distraction. They have enough problems as it is.

BQ was an arse. He got in trouble plenty of times at the bars in Cleveland. In fact far more than JM. Hell his own teammates punched him in the face while playing for the browns. He has zero room to talk crap about JM. Sure BQ would love to play for the Browns... or any team for that matter but he can't even win a third string QB spot so it was not just the Browns who had no patience with him. No one did. Don't be fooled by his ability to talk smoothly in public.

I said before the season started that Branidge would do well for us. He has gone way beyond my biggest hopes but from day one I said with him and dray that our TE corps would do well this year. So there is your ONE but there were several who expressed the same opinion not just me =) That opinion that we would be just fine without Cameron.

Just fine and what Barnidge is doing are not the same.

SMH

Why don't we wait until the end of the season to figure this one out.

The next three will be more of a challenge. If there is progress, then that helps the team.